Ericson 35-3

[bgary]

Forgot to add: My surveyor recommended having both an engine survey and a rig survey, and having both of those done *before* the main survey so that he'd have access to any findings and could look at them himself during his inspection.

IIRC, those were about 100 bucks each, and your surveyor should be able to recommend qualified mechanics/riggers in the Port Townsend area.

Worth doing, IMO, especially insofar as it extends your ability to decide which things are items you can/should take care of once the boat it yours, versus which things are potential deal-breakers.

B

 

[Christian Williams]

we found an ancient battery charger

They fry batteries. A new one is just a couple hundred peanuts. I hope it was not this original equipment, which destroyed my previous owner's bank of expensive AGMs.



By the way, Bruce was of sound mind (sort of), and closed our deal with a bottle of superb brandy. Things didn't go as well buying Thelonious II, with a seller who was in the grip of Alzheimers, did not really want to sell, and confided to the broker and me that it was all his wife's idea, and that "I never loved her anyhow." That negotiation took two months. You're right, we owe the seller some humanity, as it is not always easy for them, and often a matter of some setback financial, personal or of health.

 

[kapnkd]

There's sort of a power shift halfway through the process (Bruce's Opinion, worth everything you've paid for it)

Up until the surveyor arrives, you kinda have no vote in things. It's their boat. You can ask, but you have no real leverage.

Once the survey happens, and especially when the surveyor's findings are reported out, then you have some room to negotiate. If the surveyor finds (for example) that the battery charger is defective, or poorly installed, or whatever, you can ask the owners (through their broker) to make it right. Generally speaking they should have the survey issues resolved to your satisfaction... or if you'd prefer, you can ask that they take the cost of the repair off the purchase price. The Broker more-or-less represents the seller, but is motivated to help the deal happen, so he/she ends up being in a position to tell the seller "look, one way or another this needs to get resolved or we're going to lose this buyer.... and because the issue is in the survey report, we're going to have to take care of it for the next buyer anyway if we don't do it now..."

$.02
Bruce

PS
I took full advantage of that power. In purchasing my boat, the surveyor reported that the lifeline gates didn't have tape around the latches. I pretty much sat there, wordlessly glaring at all involved for a good 2 or 3 seconds, dead-set on not moving forward with the deal, until the seller pulled a roll of tape out of a drawer and resolved the issue... It felt awesome to abuse such a tiny amount of power (laughing)

Well stated. Ultimately it IS the buyer’s right to complete the purchase or not on the results of the survey. Both the broker & previous owner are most hopeful for the sale. Hence, the needed leverage to get a fair deal.

 

[Nick J]

Yes, that's the charger. The broker said the boat has had 2 battery banks in the last 2 years. Sounds like the charger is the problem.

After figuring out the name of the boat was spelled incorrectly on the listing, I was able to find the owners blog. I think they have a profile on here but haven't been active in a while. Putting a name and face on it puts a little different spin on the situation.

 

[Kenneth K]

I think it's pretty typical for surveyors to state a "fair market value" of the surveyed boat. If your offer is significantly less than that, then I think, from a business perspective, you're not likely to get many additional repairs or concessions for new findings. But there's always the "personal" side of the seller's story....especially if he really NEEDS to sell.

 

[Nick J]

Rig Inspection?

On Bruce's and other's recommendation, I called Port Townsend Rigging to see about a rig inspection (I'm also planning on calling Brian Toss). It was on odd interaction. I spoke with them at the boat show a few years ago and had a great friendly conversation for over an hour about my boat and all things sailing. This time was much different.

She first seemed caught off guard by me asking for a rig inspection and even asked why I would want to do that. Then she said they don't travel, not even across the bay to Port Hadlock, but she might make an exception if it worked out. She said she needed me to fill out a form to give them more information (seems fair, but I'm wondering why she couldn't take the info over the phone. She ended the conversation by saying if it's an '84 with old looking rig, it wasn't even worth my money or their time to look at the boat, but she'd check my email before making a final decision.

I was really impressed with them at the boat show, but not so much anymore. I'm assuming I will need to replace the standing rigging at some point in the near future, but I thought it was a good idea to get it inspected anyway if the price wasn't too insane. Now I'm wondering if a rig inspection is a good idea if I know I'm going to replace it anyway.

 

[Christian Williams]

Around here a rig inspection is free. The rigger takes a look and makes recommendations. You take them or not.

I don;t think it's necessary to "automatically" replace all the standing rigging on an '84 boat. But the rig needs a check, including, and especially, chainplates bow and stern and interior, and all turnbuckles and lifelines. Its just an eyeball job by a professional eyeball. But they find stuff I miss.

 

[toddster]

Well... certainly worth inspecting it yourself before sailing away into the sunset. Especially if you have the opportunity to ask the seller about anything you may find but don't understand.
There's a dozen things on my boat that I've been puzzling over for years.

 

[Loren Beach]

As for the rigging inspection, my opinion (and *I am unanimous in that!) is that any boat with an 'old' standing rig and no actual proof of the install of a new rig within the last decade, needs a new standing rig. I believe that any professional rigger will agree. BTW, I have a friend who is a rigger, and he told me recently that Brion Toss is battling cancer, and it's serious.
Given his successful business, I am sure that the shop will have other people that can help you, and I have met another rigger who is reportedly moving from Portland to Pt Townsend (at least temporarily) to assist Brion.

As for your prospective boat's battery charger..... oh yeah....
When I inspected what would become our boat the batteries were dead as a stone, and the owner had the broker put two new 12 volt group 24 batteries in to facilitate the sale. The stock shore power charger was a different brand than your picture, but likely the same old "ferro resonant" technology. Those things could provide the voltage but were very poorly regulated and would boil batteries dry in a week if ignored. I installed a modern solid state charger.

*wonderful quote from 'Mrs Slocombe" of Are You Being Served.

Unsolicited Opinion: The 35-3 is a strong and fast offshore vessel that is not all that much smaller than the 38 series. This may well be your last boat, taking your family on many cruises. Perhaps you will be posting cruising and racing stories here in 2030 .... !

 

[debonAir]

Just plan on a new rig. Even more so than a new engine, the knowledge your standing rigging is in good shape makes a huge difference in your enjoyment, especially when things get rougher than you expected.

In the grand scheme of things, the rig isn't even all that expensive and is something that has to be done every so often anyway. If you're pulling the mast for transport, that's a great time to have to worked on.

The battery thing is weird to me though. I've never used a battery charger on a boat. The alternator should do it for you when you run your engine right. And you should run your engine till its hot every so often even on a slip. And on a slip you'd have shore power, so why drain the batteries to the point of needing a charge there? I'm sure it is some mode of boating life-style I haven't yet encountered, but I for one would check the alternator before using a charger. Of course that reminds me I need a new alternator....

The boat looks good. Even great for that money.

 

[fool]

Might try Mike Evans for your engine survey, Evans Engine Service 425-238-3323. He came recommended by Boat Haven Marina staff as "the guy" to do a pre-inspection for a recent vessel inquiry. Charges about a hundred bucks an hour and is based out of Port Angeles if I recall correctly. He'll pull oil samples and send them in if requested, but you can do that too. https://tinyurl.com/oil-sample-conditions.

The sample will provide a baseline for future comparison. They'll mean less if you don't have a record of or engine hours since the last change. They'll be more useful the next time you do your own testing. Mike will tell you if he thinks it'll be a waste of your time. My $180 bucks netted three items to be aware of going forward. Simple stuff in this instance, and better sleep at night knowing someone more experienced than I had a good look.

And he'll measure the Alternator output as part of his inspection.

 

[bigd14]

For the rigging, I might be more concerned about the aluminum plates below decks that the ubolts run through. These will not be possible to inspect unless you start pulling the headliner, which is beyond the scope of the survey. I know that I would replace all the standing rigging just because I like to know that the rig won't come down. And the headstay is hidden inside the furler so you can't inspect that.

Do a good job (better than the surveyor) of looking over all the thru hulls and hoses and shaft seal. Get in there with a camera if you can't set eyes on all of them. Old hoses, stiff thru hull levers or punky backing plates (Ericson used plywood backing plates on the thruhulls) are cause for concern.

Have the marine mechanic look over the exhaust system too to make sure he sees no issues.

Have the surveyor sand some bottom paint off the strut and see if it has suffered galvanic corrosion. Replacing the strut sucks!

I would say that anything that can sink the boat, cause the mast to drop, cause loss of steering or loss of propulsion needs intense scrutiny and if found is reason to negotiate. I would probably not negotiate on anything else, that is just part of the deal of buying an old boat that the seller has stated has deferred maintenance.

And if you walk away from it, let me know, I'll run up there with my checkbook

 

[HerbertFriedman]

My 87 E34 also came with the Lewco battery charger but it was working OK. The boat had two group 27 lead acid batteries and no sign of failure. I installed a third group 24 starting battery and wired two new group 27's in parallel for the house bank. I wanted a modern multi-stage battery charge and had that installed also.

 

[Kenneth K]

Now I'm wondering if a rig inspection is a good idea if I know I'm going to replace it anyway.

When you interview surveyors, ask them if they recommend a separate rig inspection, and by whom?

I remember the guy from Tasman saying he was willing to use dyes on the deck side of the chainplates and associated rigging (to check for cracks) but he won't check anything aloft.

I did not get a separate rig inspection on my '85 E32. Surveyor left a CYA-type remark in the written survey stating that the rig looks fine for inshore cruising but should be replaced prior to racing or offshore use.

I have not replaced any standing rigging yet.

 

[Nick J]

I’ve got the survey scheduled for the 20th. I’m still up in the air about a rigging inspection. I need some more info from the riggers on what they offer and what it will cost.
Back when I thought I was just looking at the boat to see what an Ericson 35 looks like (a whole week ago) I stopped by Brian’s shop and had the chance to talk with him. I’ve tried for 5 years to see him and the shop, but we’re usually there on the weekend or he’s been out. He seemed upbeat and friendly, but tired.

I’m going to try to get to the boat this weekend or next to do a more thorough inspection before the survey. If I can drag a friend, I might be able to go up the rig as well. Through hulls, a basic engine look (I’m liking the idea of taking an oil sample), electrical panel and wiring, and seeing what the mechanic decided on the battery system was on the list of things to check. I’d also like to get an inventory of what’s on board, what may need to come from my boat, and what will need to come from the ever shrinking checkbook.

We’ve got just about everything out of our little 25+ as we ever could have asked for. Even if this deal doesn’t go through, it’s gotten me off my ass to finish some projects instead of just sailing and the boats going to be better for us or the next person.

 

[Nick J]

When you interview surveyors, ask them if they recommend a separate rig inspection, and by whom?

I remember the guy from Tasman saying he was willing to use dyes on the deck side of the chainplates and associated rigging (to check for cracks) but he won't check anything aloft.

I did not get a separate rig inspection on my '85 E32. Surveyor left a CYA-type remark in the written survey stating that the rig looks fine for inshore cruising but should be replaced prior to racing or offshore use.

I have not replaced any standing rigging yet.

I'm going with Zach from Kingspoke Marine. I've talked with a few people who've used him and have been happy. He said he covers 6' above the deck and under, does basic engine, and said a rig inspection is a good idea in some situations. He recommended Brian Toss and Port Townsend Rigging. He was surprised when I told him my experience with Port Townsend rigging so far. Maybe they're just really busy or I caught them at a bad time. Again, I've had nothing but good interactions with them but this would be the first time actually using their service.

 

[Leslie Newman]

Nice looking boat you found. Replacing the rigging won't break the bank. I had Garhauer fabricate the chainplates for my E380 and their prices are fantastic, especially compared to the price quoted by Rig-rite. See this thread...

https://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoe...ions-needed&highlight=chainplate+measurements

You can also have all the shrouds and such made.

 

[Nick J]

Nice looking boat you found. Replacing the rigging won't break the bank. I had Garhauer fabricate the chainplates for my E380 and their prices are fantastic, especially compared to the price quoted by Rig-rite. See this thread...

https://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoe...ions-needed&highlight=chainplate+measurements

You can also have all the shrouds and such made.

Thank you. I've thought about replacing the chainplate u bolts on my 25+, so I've spent some time reading through that thread. Garhauer's solution looks really good. In the end, they looked good on my boat, so I focused on other items. This new boat has me revisiting the topic though.

 

[Nick J]

Rigging update

I just got off the phone with Port Townsend rigging. They were much more helpful this time around. I think they were honestly just trying to save me some time and money. As she put it, "I didn't want to charge you $300 to tell you the rig is old and it needs to be replaced".


They offered to do an inspection if I still wanted, but also said I could take some pictures and bring them in to the shop and they'd help me come up with a plan that would address immediate needs and a priority list of what to take care of and when. They said the furler is 20-30 years old (possibly original) and, like my harken mki, is no longer being supported. It's not the greatest news, but we knew that and they did say it was a great looking boat for the price and a lot could be done.

 

[Christian Williams]

I don't know why it is necessary to pay $300 for an estimate.