E32-3 compared to catalina 30-2

[Scandium]

Hi. Looking for totally biased opinions when considering my possible upgrade (still years off probably when kids are bit older). Us: upper Chesapeake. Two kids ~6, 8 years old when I plan to buy. Weekend/week cruises. Want to keep it simple (no AC, hot showers, microwave etc).

I've been in a C30, but never an Ericson. I really like the look of the Ericson 32-3. But the Catalina 30 (mk2) is "the boat" for many in my situation; the affordable family weekend cruiser. Main interior difference is probably the double aft berth vs single in the E32. Though with two kids I can see the advantage of a cozy single berth too. Layout otherwise seems pretty similar from photos. I kinda feel my brain says C30, while my heart says Ericson I'll need to get on board, and ideally sail, both eventually.

Ericson:
pro:
Pretty interior, supposedly decent quality.
Con:
single aft berth
rare, harder to find right combo draft/condition/price

C30 pro:
Tons of them. So can get good price with many options of boats/conditions
big inside.
Huge support/parts network.
cons;
Aesthetically meh. But adequate I guess
sail characteristics??

So being this forum; what are some reasons to choose ericson over a catalina 30?!
Obviously I know nothing of how they sail, so any 1st hand knowledge would be appreciated. I've heard C30s are sluggish, but also other saying it's fine! Struggle in higher wind, but also it does great! ... *confused PHRF seems to show E32 bit faster. But from what I can tell it's something like 5 min on a 10 mi sail? Not exactly huge deal for me. Is it really noticeable for a non-racer?

Thanks!

 

[debonAir]

The Catalina 30 II comes in a bunch of different mast/keel configurations from a std. mast with shoal draft wing-keel version (3.83 foot draft) to a tall-mast fin keel "fast" version (5.25 foot draft)

The E32-3 draws 6 feet.

The deep-keel tall-mast "fast" C30-II rates about 174 PHRF. General C30 PHRF rating is 180 according to wikipedia. The std masted shoal-keel rates 189 for comparison.

The standard E32-3 rates about 156 PHRF.

That's an 18 seconds per mile difference! Even to the fastest C30.

To put that in perspective, about every 3 miles you'd be a whole minute ahead of the Catalina, and a minute and a half ahead of the slow version. Probably even more if you're upwind since the Ericson has a deeper keel.

That's not quite "sailing circles around it" but pretty close, since the boats are similar. As you can see, the Ericson was designed for performance sailing while the Catalina for picnic sailing. You're aren't getting anywhere in a hurry in either boat (that's what cars and airplanes are for) but there's something about a boat (or car or plane really) designed to be fast that you can feel no matter where you're going or why.

On the other hand, that performance comes at the cost of that 6' draft. In the Chesapeake I believe 6' is maybe a border-line disadvantage but there will be others here with more direct experience there.

Can't go wrong with either in terms of finding one in decent shape/cost that'll suit your family. Some of the parts are probably even interchangeable between the two. Good luck.

 

[Loren Beach]

Good points in reply 2 !
These two boats are really quite different. I have less overall sailing experience than some others here, but have done an overnight coastal delivery on a Cat 30, and on another occasion an E-32-3.
Some factors that are not immediately apparent are construction. The Ericson hull-to-deck joint is joined on the inside by layers of roving, making the two into one piece. That's a big deal.
The Catalina has the less-expensive "shoebox" aka a "coffee can" joint. This does not usually fail, but it can. Leakage is more common also.

The construction in the mid-range of the Catalina's, in spite of their considerable weight, is not as rigid as the Ericson. Some models have quite a bit of flexing in a seaway.

If you look at the design of the Ericson cockpit, note the higher bridge deck, which keeps green water out. Note the cockpit-mounted high capacity bilge pump. The keel stepped spar allowed a lighter section and is tapered as well.

One way to look at (any) design, is to understand whether the boat was designed from the "outside in" with all of the sailing performance assured, and then the interior was fitted in. Many boats are designed around a small condominium interior and then the architect tries to wrap a hull around this that is as fast as reasonably possible. Bruce King started with the sailing goal, and then created as much of a livable interior as the design allowed. He is very good at this balance.

In protected waters you can be content with most any boat, but as all of these boats get older, initial design and engineering become more and more important.

Speaking of any parts in common, the only one I know of would be the Universal M25 or M25XP. Good engines.

 

[Christian Williams]

The Ericson sails better, but most buyers of Cat 30s don't care. And the difference in speed, or even handling, or even seaworthniess, is pretty much a shrug among all such sailboats. Family cruising isn't about that.

Choice of boat in the same price range is a matter of impression, certain subtle elements of taste, certain details of style. None of that matters as much as a decent specimen nearby at a decent price.

That so-called "double berth" aft on the Cat 30? Well, if you want a "double berth" aft on boats this size, you can have an Ericson 32-200, which expands the quarterberth and puts the head aft.

On an Ericson 32-3 (same hull and rig, different belowdecks), the mating couple generally choose to sleep in the V-berth, which is huge and has a large opening hatch right overhead.

By the way, nobody thinks a 1980s Ericson 32 is in any way equivalent to a 30-foot Catalina. One is a Clorox bottle and the other is an Ericson.

 

[Scandium]

The Catalina 30 II comes in a bunch of different mast/keel configurations from a std. mast with shoal draft wing-keel version (3.83 foot draft) to a tall-mast fin keel "fast" version (5.25 foot draft)

The E32-3 draws 6 feet.

The deep-keel tall-mast "fast" C30-II rates about 174 PHRF. General C30 PHRF rating is 180 according to wikipedia. The std masted shoal-keel rates 189 for comparison.

The standard E32-3 rates about 156 PHRF.

That's an 18 seconds per mile difference! Even to the fastest C30.

Thanks. That's similar to what I saw. But like I said if we sail say 20 nm, that means we just get there 6 minutes faster, over 4 hours? Not exactly something to worry about. And 6 ft can be an issue here, I'd have to look for a shoal or wing keel model.

I've read other less concrete things about ericson "sailing better", which is more intriguing than x min/nm. Angle to the wind, tacking more easily in heavy or light air or what have you. Better performance like that is something I would be interested in. I am an engineer, and do enjoy the technical aspects of sailing (just not enough to race, or buying a J.. ). But I doubt I'll get to try one, so I only have opinions on the internet to go by

 

[goldenstate]

As Christian notes, you don't want a 32-3. You want a 1988-1990 Ericson 32-200, which DOES have a double quarter-berth aft. And yes, they made them in a Chesapeake-friendly 4' draft model. Here is our hull wiki for the 32's:

E 32 Hull Wiki

@bgary @Geoff W. @Filkee @Kenneth K I thought it would be interesting/potentially useful to create a "Hull Wiki" for my boat model to better markets / common problems etc. I've culled a few boat details names from this site and Yachtworld and present them here. My self-interest is in the...

ericsonyachts.org

Here is the boat design data:

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/ericson-32-200

I would forward active sales listings, but they are fairly rare:

There's one in Vermont with the deep keel:

Ericson 32 boats for sale | YachtWorld

Find Ericson 32 for sale on YachtWorld Europe's largest marketplace for boats & yachts. We connect over 10 million boat buyers and sellers each year!

www.yachtworld.com

And one in California in contract:

Ericson boats for sale | YachtWorld

Find 40 Ericson for sale on YachtWorld Europe's largest marketplace for boats & yachts. We connect over 10 million boat buyers and sellers each year!

www.yachtworld.com

 

[Loren Beach]

Hull design is important. That blunt bow on the Catalina gives a little more foot room in the forepeak, but also slows the boat down. Many owners are not aware these compromises. And then, the Ericson 32 is simply a 'bigger' boat, so comparisons are tricky.
"How boats sail" is also something that brokers tend to gloss over. Our hull is very easy to sail fast, i.e. as fast as it was designed to sail.
A lot of slower boats can be made to sail pretty well, but they are no fun to drive. The better designed boats make you look good under sail.


Edit: Berth sizing: check out the actual tape measurements for any boat you are considering. We did this back in the 90's when shopping for the boat we still have. Check on the actual numbers for Ericson's in this thread: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/actual-berth-size.7721/

 

[Scandium]

As Christian notes, you don't want a 32-3. You want a 1988-1990 Ericson 32-200, which DOES have a double quarter-berth aft. And yes, they made them in a Chesapeake-friendly 4' draft model. Here is our hull wiki for the 32's:

E 32 Hull Wiki

@bgary @Geoff W. @Filkee @Kenneth K I thought it would be interesting/potentially useful to create a "Hull Wiki" for my boat model to better markets / common problems etc. I've culled a few boat details names from this site and Yachtworld and present them here. My self-interest is in the...

ericsonyachts.org

Here is the boat design data:

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/ericson-32-200

I would forward active sales listings, but they are fairly rare:

There's one in Vermont with the deep keel:

Ericson 32 boats for sale | YachtWorld

Find Ericson 32 for sale on YachtWorld Europe's largest marketplace for boats & yachts. We connect over 10 million boat buyers and sellers each year!

www.yachtworld.com

And one in California in contract:

Ericson boats for sale | YachtWorld

Find 40 Ericson for sale on YachtWorld Europe's largest marketplace for boats & yachts. We connect over 10 million boat buyers and sellers each year!

www.yachtworld.com

Not necessarily. I don't like the look of the layout on the 200 as much, prefer the dinette. And it's a cool design, but there are certainly compromises in cramming a separate aft cabin into a 32 footer. I think I'm fine with the layout of the 32-3, the double berth is not a huge draw. Hence why I'm not so sold on the C30.. And more importantly like you say there are very few of them around, and costs is usually higher.

 

[Christian Williams]

The sailing and living characteristics of the 32-3 (disclosure: it's my favorite boat of all time) are pretty apparent in this video I made of the Hawaii run and return.

 

[goldenstate]

Not necessarily. I don't like the look of the layout on the 200 as much, prefer the dinette. And it's a cool design, but there are certainly compromises in cramming a separate aft cabin into a 32 footer. I think I'm fine with the layout of the 32-3, the double berth is not a huge draw. Hence why I'm not so sold on the C30.. And more importantly like you say there are very few of them around, and costs is usually higher.

If you don't care about a double berth and you don't care about going faster in a better boat, you should get whatever you want that is available as a cheap option. There are plenty of Catalinas around like there are plenty of Camrys around. They are fine.

 

[Scandium]

If you don't care about a double berth and you don't care about going faster in a better boat, you should get whatever you want that is available as a cheap option. There are plenty of Catalinas around like there are plenty of Camrys around. They are fine.

I don't think I said this? Not my main focus, but certainly wouldn't mind.
Double berth is great, but for our use I just don't think it's the best layout..

 

[Scandium]

Hull design is important. That blunt bow on the Catalina gives a little more foot room in the forepeak, but also slows the boat down. Many owners are not aware these compromises. And then, the Ericson 32 is simply a 'bigger' boat, so comparisons are tricky.
"How boats sail" is also something that brokers tend to gloss over. Our hull is very easy to sail fast, i.e. as fast as it was designed to sail.
A lot of slower boats can be made to sail pretty well, but they are no fun to drive. The better designed boats make you look good under sail.


Edit: Berth sizing: check out the actual tape measurements for any boat you are considering. We did this back in the 90's when shopping for the boat we still have. Check on the actual numbers for Ericson's in this thread: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/actual-berth-size.7721/

Thanks. Realize these qualities are bit nebulous, and get thrown around a lot. And some just love to hate on popular boats.. But certainly sounds like E32 might be a more pleasant sail experience, at a slight cost of interior space. Which is a trade I'm fine with.

 

[bigd14]

In my HIGHLY biased opinion and if for no other reason... Ericson's just look better. Is that shallow? Sure. But I'm fine admitting it! And when a pretty boat is backed up by solid construction, great performance and an amazing owners community (this forum), there is that much more to love. When I was looking for our second and third boats (both Ericson's), I would walk down the docks looking at all the different boat designs and my eye kept getting drawn to Ericsons (and C&Cs). The Catalina's, Pearson's, Hunters, etc. barely registered. Bruce King's designs just seem really balanced. Everytime I go down to the dock and catch the first look of our boat from the gangplank I catch myself thinking "damn, that is a fine looking boat!" So yeah, pick an Ericson!

 

[Loren Beach]

FWIW, there is a separate but related discussion going on now here : https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/35-2-pre-purchase-inspection.17520/

As for your observation that "And some just love to hate on popular boats" note that popularity in any mass-produced product will vary by price and quality. True for boats more than land vehicles. I suspect that most experienced boat owners do not "hate" on the cheaply-built ones like the Hun___s. What bothers me more is that only a few of the buyers have any idea what they are not getting for their $.

Case in point: a couple I know bought an H-375 because wife really liked the interior and they wanted to cruise it in the summer for weeks at a time. Later, and not unusual for all skippers in all boats in BC waters, they motored into into a pinnacle rock at about 6 kts. Instant Halt. :eek:

They returned home with no leakage, but when hauled & surveyed, the lightweight combo of a thin grid poorly mated to a thin hull had suffered a lot of damage. Large portions of the forward interior sections had to be cut out and re-manufactured. The damage extended up into the shroud structure inside. Along with a lot of fiberglass repair, the B&R standing rig had to be replaced. Luckily the engine did stay put. Total bill was over $40K. They avoided an insurance total.
That is the second time I have seen a Hu___r suffer extensive hull damage in a situation that would be far less damaging in a better-built boat.
To "reiterate again"... as long as the buyer understands the compromises involved, almost any boat will be suitable. Question is then, suitable for 'what'? I would, however, draw a line above Venture's and MacGregor's... !

If you are still reading, thanks for your interest and attention! BTW, the little picture in my logo here is viewable full size in my album. Not a Bruce King design, I find it attractive... all subjective stuff... and every time I do any work on it the build quality from EY is easily apparent.

O 34 close-hauled

ericsonyachts.org

BTW, scroll thru the Albums part of the site for a lot esthetic reasons for owning an Ericson.

 

[Filkee]

I think Clorox bottle says it all.

 

[Rufus McCool]

Hi. Looking for totally biased opinions when considering my possible upgrade (still years off probably when kids are bit older).

You mention upgrading...what is your current boat? I assume this isn't your first boat.

I completely get the attraction to the Cat30. It's popular - meaning there are tons of them around, it's roomy, very stable (which I like), it has great vendor support, construction is solid, it sails well, and comes with a variety of trim packages. If this upgrading will likely not be your last boat, then I would pursue the Cat30. There are so many out there to choose from, it will be like "easy pickens". I loved the Cat30 I owned, and would still have it if it weren't for the dreaded 5'3" draft. The shoal draft models are not as plentiful, unless you don't mind wing keels. I suspect the Chesapeake requires or prefers some type of shoal keel. Simply put, the Cat30 is definitely a great affordable family cruiser. Personally, I'd go with a tall rig later model with shoal (not wing) keel.

If this will be your last boat, then I'd go with the E32-3. Keep looking until you find one with a shoal keel. The confidence that is instilled by the Ericson design, construction, beauty, and sailing characteristics will by far out weigh concerns for berth size or cost.

 

[Bolo]

We live in a world of "compromises". Marriage involves compromise, raising kids, picking a career (sometimes), buying a sailboat, etc. There is no doubt in my mind that a E32 is far superior to a C30 and I won't go into the many reasons because they've all been covered here already for the most part. But if you just want a "kick around" kind of boat that you can bring the family on and get some relative enjoyment out of then buy a C30 if you think that's the answer. You'll find out fairly quickly if it's the fit for you and your family and if you don't mind the compromises you made. If it turns out the be the wrong decision, then sell it and buy something else. Maybe an E-32 next time. In the meantime keep looking and if you want maybe you can get aboard an E32 to take a harder look at them. You're welcome to come aboard mine (my boat is in Annapolis) and go for a sail, get behind the helm. (Although, who knows when we'll be able to sail these days). I can tell you this. There hasn't been a single day that I've regretted buying my E32-3 (1987) and I've not looked to "buying up" (Although an E-38 looks appealing) and it will go faster then some other boats on the bay that are larger. Now that may be because of poor seamanship on the other boat or the E-32 is just a faster boat, built from the outside in. It doesn't matter that much because my wife and I are cruisers and not racers but it's still a good feeling to go faster.

 

[nquigley]

Initial purchase price ...
You'll pay a lot more for an Ericson 30 or 32 than a Catalina 30 of comparable age and overall condition - is purchase price a major driver?
Resale value? ... Are you planning to make upgrades and invest in some restorative maintenance while you own it?
If so, I think you'll get the value of your investments and effort back when you sell an Ericson - not so with much a Catalina (some about lipstick and pink curley-tailed quadruped comes to mind)
Are you seriously planning to go further afield than the Ches Bay (Bahamas perhaps?) ...
... Ericsons are simply built better (see above comments) and will take you there and back without worrying about problems related to build quality or materials. Also - about keel depth - there are lots of shoal draft E32-3s (draft ~4') - much more suitable than the 6'-draft version for the Ches Bay - and the Bahamas ;-)

 

[Scandium]

You mention upgrading...what is your current boat? I assume this isn't your first boat.

I completely get the attraction to the Cat30. It's popular - meaning there are tons of them around, it's roomy, very stable (which I like), it has great vendor support, construction is solid, it sails well, and comes with a variety of trim packages. If this upgrading will likely not be your last boat, then I would pursue the Cat30. There are so many out there to choose from, it will be like "easy pickens". I loved the Cat30 I owned, and would still have it if it weren't for the dreaded 5'3" draft. The shoal draft models are not as plentiful, unless you don't mind wing keels. I suspect the Chesapeake requires or prefers some type of shoal keel. Simply put, the Cat30 is definitely a great affordable family cruiser. Personally, I'd go with a tall rig later model with shoal (not wing) keel.

If this will be your last boat, then I'd go with the E32-3. Keep looking until you find one with a shoal keel. The confidence that is instilled by the Ericson design, construction, beauty, and sailing characteristics will by far out weigh concerns for berth size or cost.

Good points. Currently on 2nd season with a Seaward 23. Tiny trailer sailor/mini-cruiser whatever you want to call it. Though I keep it in a marina. Also a bit "above average quality" boat I believe. Another rare boat I had to search quite a bit for, and pay more. I don't mind paying for quality, as long as I know it's true and not just BS/luxury.

I've read some places Ericson build is slightly better than catalina, but also some saying it was about the same as all liner-built boats of that area, and nothing special (late 80s, pre PSC). So I don't know what to believe about that. But to be fair for chesapeake cruising that's not terribly relevant.

I don't love buying boats, cars etc, so would hope to find something that lasts a while, assuming our needs/wants don't change dramatically. So 7+ years perhaps? I want to have room for kids as they get older, but also keep it simple. If it's a bit cramped that's good with me. Getting a 42 footer so everyone get a room with TV is not happening. My parents took 3 kids on a 23 ft powerboat a week, so aiming to teach my kids similar "hardship" (hm, great boat name..). That's probably considered child abuse these days.. Always easy to justify another couple feet, but I really think the 32 is a nice inbetween.

Anyway. Thanks to everyone for great input on Ericsons. Nice and biased as I expected If it really does "feel" better to sail that could be enough to push me to E32. C30 is totally ok boat, but not much drawing me to it (perhaps save availability). Yes would be totally fine with one, but nothing special. I'd be fine with any draft 4-ish feet or less, wing or otherwise. See few nice E32, but with 6 ft is just too much where I am.

 

[Christian Williams]

Well, most local boats for sale near you have already taken draft into consideration.

I"d also consider ventilation an issue on the Chesapeake. Lotsa hatches and airy cabin, good; Westsail 32, bad .

Best of luck with it.