Looking at an E41

[Johneric]

New member here looking for any insight about the 1971 E 41. I am currently talking with the owners son who is selling on his dads behalf. The boat needs some TLC but most issues seem like normal wear for the age. The Yanmar engine works but the Walter V drive may have a cracked case. Any thoughts on systems to take a closer look at for this boat would be appreciated. My boating history is many years as deck crew for around the buoy local Puget Sound races and a few Swiftsure starts, crab fishing in AK and being a liveaboard for nearly twenty years. My first floating home was a 38' Kettenburg followed by a 1943 Chris Craft cabin cruiser. My boat purchasing experience is somewhat limited. I am not afraid of turning a wrench, and knowing what is and is not in my skill set.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience,
John
Seattle

 

[Loren Beach]

If you use the site search box, and enter "ericson 41", you will find quite a few other threads and posts by owners of those lovely boats.
When you see someone's site name, and they are an owner, hover your cursor over their name and a dialog box should appear with an invite to contact them directly= 'start conversation'.

 

[Johneric]

If you use the site search box, and enter "ericson 41", you will find quite a few other threads and posts by owners of those lovely boats.
When you see someone's site name, and they are an owner, hover your cursor over their name and a dialog box should appear with an invite to contact them directly= 'start conversation'.

Thanks you!

 

[Mike Brockman]

John, I am currently restoring a 1970 E41 and on my second year so have gotten to just about every area of the boat so far. I had also looked at 6 or more E41 before purchasing the one I have. I think all of the E41 I looked at had some areas of wet/ delamination of the balsa core deck. The one area I had never had any experience with is the chain plates which are glassed into the hull and no way to survey there condition without grinding them out. If they are original they probably need to be replaced as most surveyors say the service life is 25 years. Mine were pretty corroded and glad I had not taken it out in some heavy air before replacing. The one thing the surveyor missed was the cabin sole. was very rotten up around the mast step and under the ice box along with the supports under them. I have spent the last year mostly dealing with the cabin sole which involves removing most of the interior and replacing. My Walter V drive was sent back to the factory 15 years ago and rebuilt. I have talked to the main guy at Walter V drives and it sounds like most parts are still available.

I have been repairing and working on boats since the 1980s and this is by far my most ambitious project I have done. If you have any questions let me know.

 

[Johneric]

John, I am currently restoring a 1970 E41 and on my second year so have gotten to just about every area of the boat so far. I had also looked at 6 or more E41 before purchasing the one I have. I think all of the E41 I looked at had some areas of wet/ delamination of the balsa core deck. The one area I had never had any experience with is the chain plates which are glassed into the hull and no way to survey there condition without grinding them out. If they are original they probably need to be replaced as most surveyors say the service life is 25 years. Mine were pretty corroded and glad I had not taken it out in some heavy air before replacing. The one thing the surveyor missed was the cabin sole. was very rotten up around the mast step and under the ice box along with the supports under them. I have spent the last year mostly dealing with the cabin sole which involves removing most of the interior and replacing. My Walter V drive was sent back to the factory 15 years ago and rebuilt. I have talked to the main guy at Walter V drives and it sounds like most parts are still available.

I have been repairing and working on boats since the 1980s and this is by far my most ambitious project I have done. If you have any questions let me know.

Mike,
Thanks for all the great information. Where did you source design and system layout plans?
John

 

[Mike Brockman]

Mike,
Thanks for all the great information. Where did you source design and system layout plans?
John

I not been able to find much information on the E41 other then just basic data. I had to go slow and take lots of photos and measurements as I have disassembled areas.

 

[Johneric]

I not been able to find much information on the E41 other then just basic data. I had to go slow and take lots of photos and measurements as I have disassembled areas.

copy that

 

[E-41]

New member here looking for any insight about the 1971 E 41. I am currently talking with the owners son who is selling on his dads behalf. The boat needs some TLC but most issues seem like normal wear for the age. The Yanmar engine works but the Walter V drive may have a cracked case. Any thoughts on systems to take a closer look at for this boat would be appreciated. My boating history is many years as deck crew for around the buoy local Puget Sound races and a few Swiftsure starts, crab fishing in AK and being a liveaboard for nearly twenty years. My first floating home was a 38' Kettenburg followed by a 1943 Chris Craft cabin cruiser. My boat purchasing experience is somewhat limited. I am not afraid of turning a wrench, and knowing what is and is not in my skill set.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience,
John
Seattle

Hi John, I strongly recommend you have the chainplates inspected by a professional before you consider anything else. I just bought a 1970 E 41 (hull number 44) earlier this month (August 2021), and on the second outing, just a week later, in only in 11 kts breeze over calm water in a sunny day, the starboard primary chainplate blew out and the mast broke under load at the lower spreader in less than 2 seconds with a huge bang. I've been sailing since I was 7, and at 52 this was the scariest thing I've ever experienced in a sailboat. Besides having been a potential dangerous situation (fortunately no one got hurt), now I'm left with repair expenses that I wasn't really prepared for when I bought the boat. We know it can be repaired, but it is an hassle. My wife and I knew we were buying an old boat with excellent sailing characteristics, and we knew we were going to upgrade her with time, but we weren't quite expecting this kind of project ahead. Now we are facing either selling this beautiful boat without a mast for close to nothing (anyone interested??), or repairing it ourselves, which was not in the plans. Our "full-coverage" boat insurance isn't covering any expenses alleging "slow degradation" which they view as a result of "poor" maintenance. The weird part is that it's not easy to check chainplates in these boats because they aren't really visible. I am told that professional inspectors measure the level of humidity in the fiberglass and are able to give a pass or fail to plates based on the readings and age of the boat + the level of maintenance previous owners did, or I am told, I don't really know. Unfortunately we didn't have the boat inspected prior to purchasing it because we never even imagined the plates could fail. We can't even blame the previous owner because we believe he didn't know it either. I wish you good luck.

 

[Johneric]

Hi John, I strongly recommend you have the chainplates inspected by a professional before you consider anything else. I just bought a 1970 E 41 (hull number 44) earlier this month (August 2021), and on the second outing, just a week later, in only in 11 kts breeze over calm water in a sunny day, the starboard primary chainplate blew out and the mast broke under load at the lower spreader in less than 2 seconds with a huge bang. I've been sailing since I was 7, and at 52 this was the scariest thing I've ever experienced in a sailboat. Besides having been a potential dangerous situation (fortunately no one got hurt), now I'm left with repair expenses that I wasn't really prepared for when I bought the boat. We know it can be repaired, but it is an hassle. My wife and I knew we were buying an old boat with excellent sailing characteristics, and we knew we were going to upgrade her with time, but we weren't quite expecting this kind of project ahead. Now we are facing either selling this beautiful boat without a mast for close to nothing (anyone interested??), or repairing it ourselves, which was not in the plans. Our "full-coverage" boat insurance isn't covering any expenses alleging "slow degradation" which they view as a result of "poor" maintenance. The weird part is that it's not easy to check chainplates in these boats because they aren't really visible. I am told that professional inspectors measure the level of humidity in the fiberglass and are able to give a pass or fail to plates based on the readings and age of the boat + the level of maintenance previous owners did, or I am told, I don't really know. Unfortunately we didn't have the boat inspected prior to purchasing it because we never even imagined the plates could fail. We can't even blame the previous owner because we believe he didn't know it either. I wish you good luck.

So sorry for your experience. I appreciate the heads up. My immediate use will be as a liveaboard. I plan on going through the boat over the long term. Main structural systems are a high priority as I investigate.

 

[Loren Beach]

That looks, to an untrained eye, like a rather clean break. I wonder if an expert spar builder, like 'Buzz' at https://ballengerspars.com
could build a splice plate and internal joining section?
As for those OEM embedded chain plates, they were used in a lot of offshore boats in the 70's, and a shipwright that I know would recommend replacing all of them at 30+ years (and re-glassing the area). Note that some other Ericson owners have gone to external SS chain plate tangs, and bolted thru to the stock SS inside - using it for a backing plate.
Decisions and choices... and research.... and pondering. Hang in there. We're all pulling for ya.

Best of luck to you.

BTW, and "FWIW" I just changed insurers and increased our "Agreed Value". At least in case of a hull or rigging catastrophe, the insurer cannot arbitrarily reduce the value of the insured asset. A new rig, on ANY older sailboat is often worth more than the 'market value' of the boat.
An owner has to be careful not to underinsure. (sigh)

 

[toddster]

I’m not really sure how ”a professional” or anyone else could possibly inspect embedded chain plates. You just have to assume that they’re suspect.

I’ve considered a couple of E41’s as the “next boat.” Conversion from fully-crewed battle-wagon to single-handed cruiser seems possible but perhaps not cheap or simple. Still, they have some attractive features.

 

[E-41]

That looks, to an untrained eye, like a rather clean break. I wonder if an expert spar builder, like 'Buzz' at https://ballengerspars.com
could build a splice plate and internal joining section?
As for those OEM embedded chain plates, they were used in a lot of offshore boats in the 70's, and a shipwright that I know would recommend replacing all of them at 30+ years. Note that some other Ericson owners have gone to external SS chain plate tangs, and bolted thru to the stock SS inside - using it for a backing plate.
Decisions and choices... and research.... and pondering. Hang in there. We're all pulling for ya.

Best of luck to you.

BTW, and "FWIW" I just changed insurers and increased our "Agreed Value". At least in case of a hull or rigging catastrophe, the insurer cannot arbitrarily reduce the value of the insured asset. A new rig, on ANY sailboat is often worth more than the market value of the boat.
An owner has to be careful not to underinsure. (sigh)

Loren, thanks for the great insights. I am weighing all my options at this point, but most likely, if I keep this boat, I will have new plates installed on the exterior and bolt them through the old chainplates and even have another extra plate installed on the interior in lieu of washers against the existing fiberglass. I just can't bare the thought of not being absolutely sure the plates are safe and sound from now on. In terms of the rigging, the mast break was so clean with zero bending, that I'm investigating sleeving it and re-using the mast and the existing rigging, which wasn't damaged, fortunately. In any event, your advice to increase the insured "agreed value" of the vessel is a wise one. No doubt that any repair to a hull or rigging catastrophe can easily exceed the market value of the boat for sure. I'll investigate this as well. Thanks for the great insights and good vibes.

Antonio Rebelo

 

[E-41]

I’m not really sure how ”a professional” or anyone else could possibly inspect embedded chain plates. You just have to assume that they’re suspect.

I’ve considered a couple of E41’s as the “next boat.” Conversion from fully-crewed battle-wagon to single-handed cruiser seems possible but perhaps not cheap or simple. Still, they have some attractive features.

Your comment on assuming the plates are suspect is right on. Unfortunately that even didn't pass my mind. I feel stupid about it. This is our first big vessel and looks amazing otherwise. The hull and the bottom have been refurbished - look amazing, and the interior looks gorgeous. No soft spots anywhere and very little water damage anywhere on the interior. There was a small spot by the head cabinet where rain water came in from the toe rail, otherwise the boat is dry. The Westerbeke diesel engine has been well maintained, runs smooth and doesn't overheat. There's some upgrading left to do in terms of instrumentation, sails and some cosmetic work on the few teak pieces on the exterior. I guess we fell in love with this E-41 at first sight and this was definitely an oversight on my part - the lack of attention to the plates. We too wanted to upgrade the boat with a roller furler and a stack pack to be easier to handle alone...

 

[Mike Brockman]

I have been messaging with John about my chainplates replacement and thought I would just post on this thread.

 

[Mike Brockman]

More photos

 

[Sean Engle]

I have been messaging with John about my chainplates replacement and thought I would just post on this thread.

You should create a blog profile and document this in some posts....

 

[Sean Engle]

Hi John, I strongly recommend you have the chainplates inspected by a professional before you consider anything else. I just bought a 1970 E 41 (hull number 44) earlier this month (August 2021), and on the second outing, just a week later, in only in 11 kts breeze over calm water in a sunny day, the starboard primary chainplate blew out and the mast broke under load at the lower spreader in less than 2 seconds with a huge bang....

Wow... I'm also very sorry you've had to experience something like this, but am very glad no one was hurt in the incident.

 

[Johneric]

You should create a blog profile and document this in some posts....

More photos

Mike, those are great reference pics. Do you have a breakdown on expenses for that project. How much was "did it myself" and how much outsourced? Vendors, trades, suppliers you like. I worked for Pocock Racing Shells until I blew out my rotator cuff moving an 8 man shell : ( .
I was tasked with repairing and cleaning up used shells turned in for credit on new purchases. There were no records on how boats built by others were put together so one of my pet projects was documenting what I found when pulling parts and matching fasteners. Nothing like the upgrade you've done but it gives me a keen appreciation of documenting and sharing. Thank you for your efforts and willingness to share. I expect to do the same.

 

[E-41]

I have been messaging with John about my chainplates replacement and thought I would just post on this thread.

These are TERRIFIC images that help explain exactly what's ahead with replacing the chainplates on an E-41. Thank you for sharing these images! Wow, I wish I had seen this before taking the boat for a sail. It would have saved me the scare and the cost of repairing a mast and sails. This is serious work, but well worth it if one wants to take an old Ericson 41 to sea again.

 

[E-41]

Wow... I'm also very sorry you've had to experience something like this, but am very glad no one was hurt in the incident.

Thanks Sean. Yes me too. It could have been really bad indeed. I should have done what Mike is doing to his before doing anything else with the boat. I realize now this is a critical path item in the maintenance and restoration of these beautiful boats.