E30-2 or Tartan 30

[TrueBlue]

So have my eye still on a 30-2 Ericson but also been offered a Tartan 30. They are pretty comparable in price and condition. I kinda like the Skeg Rudder of the Tartan but it has a Gas Atomic 4 which runs well and has been nicely maintained. The Ericson has a newly rebuilt Yanmar diesel. I am a bit worried about the cracking I've read about between hull and keel on Ericson's though. I'm also fairly new to sailing and this would be my first boat purchase (some say dont do it) lol. I know its a bit of the jumping in the deep end and should probably start with like a 22ft something. But I figure if I measure twice and cut once I'll have a boat I can use for the foreseeable future.

Oh been also looking at a few Ericson 29's

So any thoughts or pearls of wisdom would be much appreciated.

 

[Loren Beach]

Thoughts, yes. Wisdom, that's more subjective...
Tartan 30 was/is a good boat from a quality builder. Does this have the engine in a box under the cabin table? Easy to service, but in the way and intrinsically noisier.
I would advise against the skeg rudder. Boats with those are less maneuverable in marinas. At one time they were a selling point, but they have specific weaknesses, altho a good builder like Tartan likely built it strong enough.
The E-30-2 is a fast boat, and there are happy owners here that can weigh in on it. Do a site search for that model.The Ericson is a newer design, and the transom rudder is the most trouble free system you can have.

ERICSON 30-2 - sailboatdata

Entirely different design from an earlier ERICSON 30 (1967).

sailboatdata.com

i believe that the interior of the Ericson is roomier, also.

 

[TrueBlue]

Yeah the more I've been thinking about it, the less I trust even the best maintained atomic 4. Maybe I'm a bit too paranoid. But on a limited budget the last thing I want to do Is have major problems. So I think I'll need to just stay patient and keep my eye out. Was told by a surveyor today that a lot of boats have been sold over the last couple years, so not a lot of good deals left at the moment.

Either way I do appreciate the input there's definitely a lot of moving parts when it comes to buying and owning a boat.

 

[Slick470]

I think if you were comparing the Tartan 3000 to the 30-2 it would be a harder choice and I'd probably lean toward the T3000, but in this case I'd personally go lean to the E30-2. It really does come down to condition and which boat you like better.

Atomic 4 is not necessarily a bad thing though. Moyer marine still makes parts for them and they can be updated, maintained, and even rebuilt. Millions of power boats have gas engines so the safety thing is a thing, but a manageable one.

 

[debonAir]

Ohhh, that is a tough choice. Both great solid boats. Both about the same speed: the Ericson 30-2 rates just 4 seconds per mile faster than the Tartan 30. I raced a Tartan 30 for years.

For me, the clear winner is the Ericson here though because

1 - Diesel will be more reliable, less scary, and better for resale vs. the Atomic-4. If it is truly rebuilt and in decent shape that's a real plus.

2 - The skeg-hung rudder was kind-of an answer to the "what if the rudder hits ground" argument when boats were transitioning from full keels to the much more efficient wing-keel + rudder arrangement. In reality, if you are in the position to really ground the rudder, your keel would have already hit ground first. The skeg rudder is just less performant than a spade rudder, and more painful in a lot of practical ways like painting, and dropping, etc. You'll appreciate the quicker response and turning radius of the Ericson.

4 - This site. Seriously. Had I known about this place before when I was looking for a boat I might have restricted my search to only Ericsons. You can't beat a large group which combines both grizzled experience and easy-going argument-free conversations.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[G Kiba]

So have my eye still on a 30-2 Ericson but also been offered a Tartan 30. They are pretty comparable in price and condition. I kinda like the Skeg Rudder of the Tartan but it has a Gas Atomic 4 which runs well and has been nicely maintained. The Ericson has a newly rebuilt Yanmar diesel. I am a bit worried about the cracking I've read about between hull and keel on Ericson's though. I'm also fairly new to sailing and this would be my first boat purchase (some say dont do it) lol. I know its a bit of the jumping in the deep end and should probably start with like a 22ft something. But I figure if I measure twice and cut once I'll have a boat I can use for the foreseeable future.

Oh been also looking at a few Ericson 29's

So any thoughts or pearls of wisdom would be much appreciated.

You're in the Bay Area? If that's the Tartan 30 on Craig's List (Berkeley). Looks like a nice boat even if it's half as good as the pictures show at that price. Tough choice! Atomic 4's seem to run forever and have quite a following.

 

[TrueBlue]

You're in the Bay Area? If that's the Tartan 30 on Craig's List (Berkeley). Looks like a nice boat even if it's half as good as the pictures show at that price. Tough choice! Atomic 4's seem to run forever and have quite a following.

I'm actually near San Diego but yeah in widening my search I found the Tartan and we talked a bit. I have a friend who is a pretty seasoned sailor that will help me sail her down if I decided to buy it. But It would be nice to have a 3rd person since its a fairly long trek and I'm a fairly new sailor but still deciding so just idle plans atm. It would probably be a pretty hard deal to pull off not being local. Since I would need to paint bottom test everything out and give it a few shakedowns before I headed out. But If I did do it I think it would be a memorable trip.

What also gives me pause in the dang slip cost. His slip in SF bay is about $330.00 a month but in SD the cheapest I can find is about $530.00
This being my first boat If I choose poorly my Wife will definitely make sure its my last lol. My friend told me a boat is a hole in which one throws money into

 

[Loren Beach]

Probably different in your area, but here the total cost of membership and moorage in a yacht club is usually lower than the commercial marinas.
In our case, being an all volunteer-run club, a lot less. It might pay to look around a bit. Of course the cost of club membership will also vary a lot depending on what features that they offer. We have no bar and no restaurant, so our overhead is quite low.

 

[toddster]

Not much help, but I think either the Ericson or the Tartan would be good choices (given unknowns of a particular boat.) I find nothing wrong with a good Atomic 4. Although the whole A4 universe rests on the shoulders of two very elderly vendors. But heck, we’re all getting there.

BTW, I went with an E29. It was quite a leap from a Hobie 16, but I’m glad I didn’t go for an intermediate step like a 22. I mean, this could be the forever boat (though it might not be) in a way that a 22’er never could be.

One thing about the encapsulated keel boats is that you never have to worry about that “smile” thing.

 

[ChrisS]

Given the age of these boats, I wouldn't get too hung up on one design versus another similar one, but think about the specific boats for sale, Has each been sailed reguarly? Are modifications and add ons well engineered and correctly installed? What big ticket costs (sails, upholstery, etc.) are coming due?

The Tartan in that CL ad looks pretty nice, especially at that price. Don't let the A-4 put you off: that one in the photo looks clean. They are reliable engines, easy to work on, and with proper care can go for a long time.

 

[Brendan Prendergast]

So have my eye still on a 30-2 Ericson but also been offered a Tartan 30. They are pretty comparable in price and condition. I kinda like the Skeg Rudder of the Tartan but it has a Gas Atomic 4 which runs well and has been nicely maintained. The Ericson has a newly rebuilt Yanmar diesel. I am a bit worried about the cracking I've read about between hull and keel on Ericson's though. I'm also fairly new to sailing and this would be my first boat purchase (some say dont do it) lol. I know its a bit of the jumping in the deep end and should probably start with like a 22ft something. But I figure if I measure twice and cut once I'll have a boat I can use for the foreseeable future.

Oh been also looking at a few Ericson 29's

So any thoughts or pearls of wisdom would be much appreciated.

Hello!
Both are amazing sailboats. I don’t think jumping to a 30 is a bad choice because you’ll end up there sooner or later regardless! Personally I think the Tartan 30 is a good choice. The atomic 4 will last you a very very long time and won’t fail on you if you keep up with the good maintenance it already has. I also work for Tartan Yachts in Cleveland, OH and can look up the boat records for the T30 hull. This gives you an idea of what the boats been through. I can also put you through to our customer service department to help with any aftermarket projects! Let me know if I can help!

 

[HerbertFriedman]

I owned a 1971 Tartan 30 for ten years and sold it to a fellow who did some major mods (replaced fuel tank, painting, more electronics, etc) and loves it. Recently I went sailing with him and the T30 handled the SF bay high winds very well. As I recall, the only problem we had was a leak in the hull to keel joint, that famous "smile" problem. I rebedded the nuts on the keel bolts but the leak persisted and I was reluctant to drop the keel, so I just lived with the leak which was only after a vigorous sail. The A4 was and still is reliable, I added electronic ignition, an Indigo prop and did regular maintenance. I did not choose to add a fresh water cooling system but rigged a Tee in the salt water cooling line so that I could flush the block with fresh water after each sail.

Seven years ago I bought a 87 E34, we wanted a little more room and a more substantial platform for the blustery SF Bay conditions. I can attest that the build quality of the T30 and the E34 are comparable and way above the cheaper production boats of the same age.

 

[TrueBlue]

Appreciate all the good feedback about this. Its a pretty tough call. I do prefer the Ericson overall however the Tartan has 3 things that would be expensive to add to Ericson, The Tartan has Auto Pilot Wind vane, Newer Anderson Winches and Furling Jib which I figure all together is at least worth 3-4k.

Debon yeah I defintely prefer the diesel although the Tartan could possibly resale easier I don't know.

Loren I'll look into the Clubs down here for slip deals there's quite a few.

Chris to your question Tartan seems to be raced regularly the Ericson has mostly been idle last 2 seasons.

Brendan when I asked the Tartan owner if he knew Hull # he said it sounds like I should just get a Survey done which I thought was odd and kind of off putting.

So If I could at least inexpensively add a Furling jib for now to the Ericson (anyone know cost?) I could always do the Winches and Wind Vane later. But given they both need bottom paint, transducers and I'm sure they both hold some surprises those items on the Ericson could be way out.

Either way who knows maybe worse case scenario I'll just hold off on a buying either and just wait for the Sailboat budget to go up. or another deal.

Thanks Again for the input hope your enjoying the holiday!

 

[Loren Beach]

I am puzzled that any owner cannot recall his boat's hull # . Maybe that's just me.
Vanes are indeed expensive- but used ones show up regularly, and furlers can be costly too (but if the present furler is over about 20 years old I would value it at zero, kind of like valuing old instruments).
Winches..... ah yes..... Look for the annual 3 day sale on Lewmar winches @ 2 for 1. About end of February or into March.

Happy Holidays to you too!

 

[debonAir]

I am puzzled that any owner cannot recall his boat's hull # . Maybe that's just me.

No, me too. Especially since the boat was raced recently Wouldn't that mean getting a rating, entering the # in to race entries, etc.? Plus its stamped right on the transom and printed on the registrations, etc. Pretty low-bar to answering the question. Very off putting.

Vanes are kind-of obsolete at this point IMHO. A decent autopilot is so much more useful it just isn't worth dragging around the weight and windage of a vane. Nearly all of the times I need someone to steer for a long time its when motoring not sailing. My Ericson 35-3 can usually sail itself straight for at least 1/2 hour with a little tension on the wheel lock and the sails trimmed well. The vanes looks nice and salty, but I'd rather carry around a whole spare electronic autopilot and battery and solar panel than an expensive wind catcher on my stern.

Unless the Tartan's furler is fairly new I would also discount its value, probably to near $0 as Loren mentioned. I am actually surprised you found a 34 foot boat that doesn't have a furler installed. I've only seen that on boats raced semi-seriously, or owned by very cheap occasional users. You can install a furler for a few $1000 and you'll probably want/need a new jib to go with it. Cutting an old jib to try and adapt is not worth it.

If the winches are working OK you can upgrade later. You can find used winches all the time easily, not a big worry/expense.

Finally, good used boats have gone up in value and gotten harder to find over the pandemic. Make sure your boat-budget is growing at least as fast as the market prices! (10% year-on-year!)

What finally got me to pull the trigger was my friend politely reminding me how old I am. Time and tide. Good luck.

 

[Christian Williams]

A decent autopilot is so much more useful

Agree. A wind vane is invaluable for long ocean, but rarely used otherwise. A wheel pilot does the motoring and light sailing. A full-scale autopilot does it all, and may well cost less than a new vane.

 

[captainic]

I haven't posted here for years but I thought I would give you my 2 cents on the Atomic 4 and E30-2, whatever their worth... My first boat was an E-27 with an Atomic 4 engine, it was a great engine for power as well as a workhorse, but the maintenance was a pain. In my opinion the main problem was not the gasoline fuel itself (with its obvious drawbacks compare to diesel), but the carburator, which was finicky and had a tendency to gum up if I did not run the engine on a regular basis. Had it been fuel injected, I would be less critical, but after switching to a boat with a diesel engine, I would never go back to a boat with an A4 engine, and I mean never! Now I own an E30-2, which I have sailed in an out of the Bay Area for six years, at times in quite heavy weather. It has been a fantastic boat, and the combination of the cockpit-mounted traveler and transom-hung rudder seems to make it much less prone to weather helm than the E-30+ which I also sailed a lot, and has the same hull but a spade rudder and cabin top-mounted traveler. The only drawback (for coastal cruising only) is its under-powered Yanmar YSM12. You mentioned a worry about developing a crack ahead of the keel stub, which probably originated from a post I made after buying my E30-2 (around 2015). In my case the damage was done and shoddily repaired by the previous owner who unscrupulously did not disclosed it; I made the mistake of conducting only an in-water survey; had I hauled the boat out, the surveyor would have easily identified the shoddy previous repair by soundings. Luckily it was repairable (quite expensive but better than new!) So my recommendation would be to have a full out-of-water survey conducted and not worry about cracks if soundings of the hull are good all around. Also check for water penetration in the deck core around the mast and chainplates. On recommendation by a surveyor after the repair, I also tabbed the starboard bulkhead in the head, below the sink. I am not sure if this location was left untabbed in other E30-2's, but you may want to check that and tab it as necessary for added stiffness. You may also notice some minor mottling outside the hull where the chainplate supports are bonded to the hull; I had those locations carefully surveyed in and out, with no sign of problems, as it turns out these resulted from the manufacturing process on some (maybe all?) of the E30-2's. In any case, it as been a fantastic boat, except for the small engine when trying reach port in a hurry under head winds.

 

[Kenneth K]

Unless the winches on the Ericson are damaged, I wouldn't discount them. Most were Barients, which were top quality and built very stoutly. On most, it's pretty simple to remove the drums and inspect for damage inside. If no damage, they are easy to disassemble and clean, and will likely last forever. I cleaned all 5 of mine and none needed new parts. Replacement parts, if needed, will be hard to find for Barients.

Winch service

When was the last time you serviced your winches? Now is a good time to open these guys up and take a look inside. The attached photo is one of four winches I removed from a customers Ericson 36C that he just purchased. He thought they were supposed to freely turn in both directions. Can...

ericsonyachts.org

I just priced new furlers for my E32. Looked like $2-4K new (without labor).

 

[Pete the Cat]

Well I am the current owner of both a Tartan 37 and an Ericson 32-200 and have personally refitted , repaired or replaced every system on both boats.. My Tartan is a better sailing boat. It tracks better under sail and power. I also do not like the sloped side deck house on the Ericson (maybe yours is different) and prefer the flat cabin top of the Tartan because it makes working on the mast and main sail less dangerous--less likely to slip off it. Not sure what your model Ericson looks like. Both are substantially built. My wife likes the amenities and looks of the Ericson much better.
I am familiar with the Tartan 30 but not the Ericson model you have. My Ericson has the TFAG construction and the Tartan is a conventionally built with bulkheads. Both are sturdy and seaworthy. Modifications and running wire and plumbing is a lot easier on the Tartan. You might check, but I think parts are no longer available for Barient winches--and size and gearing (2-speed?) matter. Bigger is better and 2 speed is almost a necessity on the primaries at least. I am not sure what is wrong with a furler that is older as some suggest. I have Harken furlers on both boats that are more than 10 years old and work fine. The furler on my Tartan probably has 25000 miles on it in the last 25 years of ownership--I have replaced the rigging a couple times. I think you have been given the pluses on a minuses of gas and diesel. I have used both extensively and both can be more or less trouble free with good maintenance and are easy to work on--I would ask to see what "rebuilt" meant on the diesel--maybe to see the invoice for the work? I assume that both engines are not freshwater cooled, but freshwater cooled would be my preference and would actually figure bigger than diesel or gas consideration. Moyer makes conversion kits for electronic ignition and freshwater cooling and all parts for A4 and you need their book if you have one--they are very helpful. You will not get a lot of customer service from Yanmar, but their engines are bulletproof if maintained and simple in design. I am not sure of your access on your model of Ericson--but engine access is a huge deal in my choosing of a boat. Boat engines need to be looked at and maintained much more than cars and it is insane how some are installed to limit access to parts you must check and maintain.
I would not worry about a small crack "smile" in the keel. They are not necessarily a problem unless there is some other damage and your surveyor can probably tell you if it is serious. Dropping the keel is a very very expensive business on most boats--don't ask how I know this.
The skeg is good for preventing lobster and crab pot lines from fouling the rudder in Maine where I keep it. I really find no other upside or downside to the skeg. It may contribute to the boat's tracking, but my Tartan will turn a 360 in just a bit more than its own length--so it is not a hindrance in maneuvering. I agree that a wind vane on a boat of this size is probably just a problem if you are not going to do offshore work. I would not really like to make the trip from SF to LA (I have done it several times) without an electric autopilot however. Unless you are planning to buy new sails, you should assess their condition as you are looking at $2500 each for Main and Jib. I bought my Ericson without really looking at the sails closely enough--the sail looked good but the first time the breeze came up, the entire leach ripped apart--someone had left the furler rolled the wrong way and rotted the great looking sail fabric to it core.
I think you are looking at two good candidates. And it is good that you are doing the math about getting each boat up to the standards you want.
I realize this is not much help.
There is an initial cost of bringing any boat up to standards to do what you want. I have heard estimates of 10%-30%. I would encourage you to buy the best maintained version of whatever boat you buy--be willing to pay a premium. Fixing up a poorly maintained boat is costly. I knew better but bought a solid, but neglected Ericson for a "bargain" price and have spent the purchase price again in the first year just to bring it up to my standards.
Well maintained boats are hard to find. Junkers are everywhere. In general, I think the economic benefit goes to folks who pay more for a better maintained boat.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[TrueBlue]

Really appreciate the post Pete. And I have to start off by saying that it must be awesome and a bit nerve racking to have 2 awesome boats to be able to sail and to look after. I have to agree with you when you and others have said that condition is really most important. I would say the majority of the boats I see are neglected. They are either way out of my budget or the look a bit dry I'll say... So all really good information in your post and more things to consider.

So I am a fairly new sailor from a non sailing family but now in my early 40's I realize that If I'm going to sail more I should get to it . I would like to introduce my kids to sailing before their all grown. However I do realize that there is quite a big difference between occasionally sailing on others boats and owning your own. It seems to me that buying a boat seems easy, buying a good value boat is hard, but selling or owning a bad boat is the most difficult ... so I'm trying to stay patient. I also appreciate the intricacies of setting up a Sailboat well. For instance I enjoyed seeing Christian Williams setup on his 38 its like a complex and refined tool. I'm sure the majority on this forum have their boats setup like that and I do enjoy learning from others and how they have set theirs up whether its more traditional or not. For instance I Watched a video series on Mingming 2 a Achilles 24 setup with a Junksail for solo Artic sailing I'll link the videos for those interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jsPOlg7Ovc

So yeah really appreciate everyone's post they really are helpful! The old Proverb goes "Plans fail where there is no consultation , But there is accomplishment through many advisors"