Ideal multi-function display size

[dhill]

I've started considering a replacement for my current Raymarine a65 multi-function display (MFD). My main objection is that there does not seem to be a night mode. I've checked the manual, but this seems to be a feature that was added later to Raymarine MFDs. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Something a little bigger might be nice too. I've been looking at B&G Vulcan R units and there is a 9" and 12" model (in addition to the 7" - similar in size to what I have now). Bigger means greater resolution - 1280 x 800 for the 12" and 800 x 480 for the 9" - which is a pretty big difference between the two units. The 12" consumes twice the power of the 9" (24w vs 12w nominally). I do have 350 watts of solar panels, however, which helps with power generation. Deals on the 12" right now make it equivalent in price to the 9" display, so cost is not a factor at the moment.

Is 12" too large? Functionally the two units are the same. The B&G Zeus3 9" has almost the same resolution as the Vulcan 12R, but is more than double the Vulcan 12R deal price. Anyone out there with a 9" display that wishes it were larger? Anyone have a 12" display they wish were smaller?

Thanks!
Dave

 

[Frank Langer]

Dave,
It might help a bit if you can state, or show a pic, where you plan to mount it. That might help folks to consider aesthetics, functionality, obstacles, etc.
My general preference is to have electronics be only as large as is necessary, but not any larger, as they can make the boat look too technical. It also depends a bit on what you're used to.
My opinion is influenced by my 5" chart plotter, and my view that a TV should never be mounted above a living room fireplace - - so I'm a bit old school in that way.
Frank

 

[dhill]

Dave,
It might help a bit if you can state, or show a pic, where you plan to mount it. That might help folks to consider aesthetics, functionality, obstacles, etc.
My general preference is to have electronics be only as large as is necessary, but not any larger, as they can make the boat look too technical. It also depends a bit on what you're used to.
My opinion is influenced by my 5" chart plotter, and my view that a TV should never be mounted above a living room fireplace - - so I'm a bit old school in that way.
Frank

Thanks Frank!

My current Raymarine a65 is attached to an arm mounted to the 12" pedestal guard. The Vulcan 9R could be setup similarly with a NavPad RailMount (https://navpod.com/product/rmx4800-13/). Otherwise, I would have to purchase an enclosure above the wheel and compass, attached directly to the top portion of the pedestal guard, which would accommodate either the 9" or the 12" model. I would probably have to replace the pedestal guard with an angled version. My current pedestal guard is straight with a pod with three small Raymarine displays (speed, depth, and wind).

Dave

 

[Loren Beach]

We have a Lowrance 9" plotter/radar display that fits inside the arch of our SS pedestal guard. A 12" would be nicer yet, but no room.
Also, mounting within about 19" of the ship's compass - like this location - requires a unit with a friction catch for the little chip door. Many plotters have a powerful perm. magnet holding that door shut and these pull on the compass needle.
Our particular model plotter is one of the few "compass friendly" ones on the market, or was when purchased. Check the current models carefully.
Edit: since all of these vendors have their install manuals on-line in (usually) PDF, best to look at the manual and search on "compass safe distance".

 

[toddster]

Being the cheapskate that I am, rather than going for a new MFD, I’d first try a neutral-density filter. E.g. a piece of smoked plexiglass or something to dim the screen.

However, I am pretty sure that all these MFD’s do have display brightness adjustments.

38

2.11 Display Setup​

These options control the appearance of your A65 Display.

Brightness​

Use the trackpad (left/right) keys or rotary knob to select the brightness value
from a low of 5% to a high of 100% in 5% increments. The default is 100%. This
setting always resets to 100% at power-up.
Note: You can quickly access this setting by pressing and releasing the POWER button

 

[TrueBlue]

Would a ipad in a weatherproof case running Navionics with a AIS wifi overlay work? You could then use it for multiple things even to control music and media on your boat as well? And at night you can detach it and bring it in.

 

[toddster]

Happily, newer iPads are weather ”resistant” without a case. IDK about salt-water resistance. My experience with (“lifeproof”) cases is that they are only waterproof until the tiny tabs securing the power plug door break off. Which isn’t very many open/close/recharge cycles. Maybe a season.

Getting the AIS and instrument data onto the iPad is doable, but requires a multiplexer and head-banging configuration sessions. For the price, you could get a used MFD.

OTOH, all modern (and slightly obsolete) MFDs can also control your music (assuming your stereo has NMEA2000) and can mirror to your iPad over WiFi. So that’s pretty much “free.”

 

[gabriel]

At a certain distance both a 9” display and 12” will appear the same size to the eye. That being said, if I were to place the display close in, I would go for the smaller more compact display. Further away, and i would tend to go for the bigger one. If you mount on the mast head then you probably need a 60” flat screen up there.

im not crazy about my iPad for navigation; the display is almost useless in the daylight and even though the iPad itself is water resistant, the cords corrode (and quit charging) on me from just the the suggestion they might be coming aboard.

 

[Slick470]

Huh, the lack of a night mode on the Raystuff MFDs is interesting. They have a night mode for their instruments, not sure why they wouldn't for the MFD's.

I have a B&G Vulcan 5, which is pretty much the same size as the A65 but I wish that I had bought the V7 which is larger. I think the V9 would be overkill. I've been pretty happy with it.

 

[goldenstate]

Hi Dave,

[Edit - Just seeing that Toddster already posted the A65 screen brightness instructions. This is the easiest solution to the problem.]

The concept is the same on my Axiom MFD. You briefly hold "power" and that gets you to a 'slider' feature allowing brightness to be adjusted.

I think 9" is the correct size for an MFD on the helm. Here's mine, with companion autopilot control head:
IMHO a 12" screen belongs below-decks on a larger boat as the housing would be very large and obtrusive in the cockpit.

 

[Christian Williams]

I have a 7" Garmin chartplotter and have never felt the need for larger (AIS on separate screen). Probably a little small for MFD. But here's what 7" looks like.


echoMAP 74dv US Offshore g2 w/XDCR, circa 2016

 

[MMLOGAN]

My personal preference is to have physical buttons or controls. Trying to hit the correct spot on a touch screen with cold and/or wet hands, while being bounced around by mother ocean, can literally be a crapshoot....food for thought.

 

[dhill]

Being the cheapskate that I am, rather than going for a new MFD, I’d first try a neutral-density filter. E.g. a piece of smoked plexiglass or something to dim the screen.

However, I am pretty sure that all these MFD’s do have display brightness adjustments.

38

2.11 Display Setup​

These options control the appearance of your A65 Display.

Brightness​

Use the trackpad (left/right) keys or rotary knob to select the brightness value
from a low of 5% to a high of 100% in 5% increments. The default is 100%. This
setting always resets to 100% at power-up.
Note: You can quickly access this setting by pressing and releasing the POWER button

Hi Dave,

[Edit - Just seeing that Toddster already posted the A65 screen brightness instructions. This is the easiest solution to the problem.]

The concept is the same on my Axiom MFD. You briefly hold "power" and that gets you to a 'slider' feature allowing brightness to be adjusted.

I think 9" is the correct size for an MFD on the helm. Here's mine, with companion autopilot control head:
IMHO a 12" screen belongs below-decks on a larger boat as the housing would be very large and obtrusive in the cockpit.

View attachment 41228

@toddster @goldenstate Thanks for the information on lowering the brightness on the a65. While brightness is an issue, it is also the nature of the light. I would prefer a screen that goes red in night mode. Reducing the brightness still exposes your eyes to light that will cause your pupils to constrain, degrading night vision.

I'm looking for something like this:

(watch after the brightness adjustment demo).

 

[dhill]

My personal preference is to have physical buttons or controls. Trying to hit the correct spot on a touch screen with cold and/or wet hands, while being bounced around by mother ocean, can literally be a crapshoot....food for thought.

@MMLOGAN Thanks - I have read posts elsewhere with the same opinion. I would think that buttons might also be difficult to use in a bouncy sea - is that really the case? I have not had problems with the a65 with wet hands, but I do notice that it seems to register my touch slightly lower and to the left than intended. I have learned to compensate (most of the time), but do have to reenter things on occasion. This happens with dry, warm hands as well.

B&G charges a significant premium (2-3x) for the Zeus3 series which has the buttons as well as the touchscreen.

 

[Loren Beach]

If you do not mind one faint comment from the 3rd balcony, I recall our last rough bar crossing when we spent about an hour going "up 5, down 5, 4 to the left, and 5 to the right, rinse, repeat...." and my magnetic steering compass was noticeably better at showing our heading than the changing symbols & numbers on the plotter. Latency, caused by long distance to satellites. The little 'boat' icon on my screen was not pointing quite in sync with the bow of the real boat.
Not any big problem, but an interesting real-world comparison. Not a problem for boat or crew, and I was... well braced... with feet wide apart on the foot cleats, and both hands firmly attached at 10 and 2.

Love our plotter, but also appreciate the non-electric systems a lot.

One other bit of trivia is that (AFAIK) Lowrance, B&G, and Simrad may have the same basic circuits, but with different cases and some differentiated features.

 

[Christian Williams]

register my touch slightly lower

This happens with car MFD screens. There is usually a calibration screen buried deep in the menu. Dunno if our products have that but might be worth asking.

FWIW, my Prius screen was malfunctioning badly after 13 years. Press screen, nothing happens, etc. The solution, by way of YouTube video, was to run a finger under pressure around the perimeter of the screen, which is where the digitizer gets vulnerable. And where salt builds up on a boat screen.

 

[dhill]

If you do not mind one faint comment from the 3rd balcony, I recall our last rough bar crossing when we spent about an hour going "up 5, down 5, 4 to the left, and 5 to the right, rinse, repeat...." and my magnetic steering compass was noticeably better at showing our heading than the changing symbols & numbers on the plotter. Latency, caused by long distance to satellites. The little 'boat' icon on my screen was not pointing quite in sync with the bow of the real boat.
Not any big problem, but an interesting real-world comparison. Not a problem for boat or crew, and I was... well braced... with feet wide apart on the foot cleats, and both hands firmly attached at 10 and 2.

Love our potter, but also appreciate the non-electric systems a lot.

One other bit of trivia is that (AFAIK) Lowrance, B&G, and Simrad may have the same basic circuits, but with different cases and some differentiated features.

@Loren Beach Yes, I have found that as well - I could not keep a straight course following the heading on the display, but could with the compass. The latency was a definite issue, like an underdamped circuit.

 

[dhill]

register my touch slightly lower

This happens with car MFD screens. There is usually a calibration screen buried deep in the menu. Dunno if our products have that but might be worth asking.

FWIW, my Prius screen was malfunctioning badly after 13 years. Press screen, nothing happens, etc. The solution, by way of YouTube video, was to run a finger under pressure around the perimeter of the screen, which is where the digitizer gets vulnerable. And where salt builds up on a boat screen.

Thanks @Christian Williams - I'll have to check that out when I'm back at the boat. I must have missed that in the manual.

 

[Loren Beach]

Somewhere, there is probably a sailing site with more helpful and courteous members... but I have not seen it!
What a great way to start out a brand new year!!

 

[Tin Kicker]

The Vulcan is able to Bluetooth what it shows to most any tablet or phone, PLUS you can use a tablet (not phone) as a control device from anywhere on the boat. No multiplexer or other special equipment required. This means you can install the chart plotter indoors at the nav station and use a tablet at the helm or even in bed.

(Ref Chapter 17: https://newcontent.westmarine.com/documents/pdfs/OwnersManuals/ELECTRONICS/B_G Vulcan Series Operator Manual English.pdf)

Already mentioned was that many (not all) tablets are hard to see in sunlight and somebody else mentioned the touch vs knob/button issue. The subject of weather-proof cases was brought up too, but those have an additional problem.

The screens on most iPads and other tablets only function up to a screen temperature which is normally around 95-100F. A tablet or phone in a case that has the sun shining on it can have the screen get a lot warmer than this and in my experience they seem to pick the absolute worst time to turn off. This can be a pain in the a$$ in a small airplane with a clear canopy if it is your moving map display.