Ericson 25 Centerboard Stability

[Blue Streak]

I am looking at an E25 Mk I centerboard model, and the Rear Admiral is concerned about the stability of the centerboard model vs. the fin keel. Sailboat data shows excellent Bal./Disp. and Capsize Screening Formula.

What about real world experiences?
Can the E25 handle the sudden high gusts that often come up here on mountain lakes?
She is worried that the boat would be prone to capsizing (never mind the fact that the boat has been sailing this very lake since 1973, without incident).
Feedback, please.

 

[Loren Beach]

Your ballast to displacement ratio is almost 50%. That's a lot.
Heck my Olson 34 ballast ratio is a little over 37%, and sister ships routinely race to Hawaii in all sorts of sea and wind conditions.

Remember that the E-25 was designed and built to be the next-to-shortest model from a company building a prestigious line of ocean-capable racer-cruisers, all the way up to 46 feet. EY did not build a lesser boat due to length.

I believe that your wife will find out, with experience, that all the boat will do in a gust is put the rail down and go faster. Once she ingests the understanding that heeling is a normal part of sailing, she will start sitting on the low side and admiring the foaming bow wave flowing past her elbow and passing astern...
And then, like my wife did a long time ago, start complaining when sailing on a slow day that she wishes the boat would sail faster.
(I have always enjoyed the 'chess game' of racing in light air. My wife wants 15 kts of wind....)

So "capsize"? Good golly NO.
Heel over, about 15 degrees in a puff. Yup.

 

[Blue Streak]

Sorry, but I did not clarify. Those are the fin keel numbers.
The ballast is much higher (within the hull) in the cb version.

 

[klb67pgh]

Loren is of course spot on. It is going to heel, and then it going to go like it is on rails. My E25 CB lived most of its life in Frisco, CO before being trucked east. My PO sent me this picture of our boat that perfectly captures the experience. I wish I knew the photographer to give them credit.



To give your wife more confidence, what other boats sail the lake you are planning to sail? I suspect not a bunch of full keel blue water boats. Check the numbers on those models as well. A Catalina 25 fixed is 41.76. An S2 7.9 is 39.41. It's hard to describe how solid this boat feels when on the water, again accepting that it IS going to heel somewhat early. But it won't keep heeling - at worst it will round up much before that, and likely you've already eased a bit before it would do so. I will say I like the 130 Genoa our boat has now for our family sailing vs. I think a 150 shown in the picture above. If you have more E25 questions, don't hesitate to send a PM.

 

[Loren Beach]

Loren is of course spot on. It is going to heel, and then it going to go like it is on rails. My E25 CB lived most of its life in Frisco, CO before being trucked east. My PO sent me this picture of our boat that perfectly captures the experience. I wish I knew the photographer to give them credit.

Great Shot! Wish we could be there to enjoy that sparkling water and sunshine.

 

[Blue Streak]

Loren is of course spot on. It is going to heel, and then it going to go like it is on rails. My E25 CB lived most of its life in Frisco, CO before being trucked east. My PO sent me this picture of our boat that perfectly captures the experience. I wish I knew the photographer to give them credit.

View attachment 42426

To give your wife more confidence, what other boats sail the lake you are planning to sail? I suspect not a bunch of full keel blue water boats. Check the numbers on those models as well. A Catalina 25 fixed is 41.76. An S2 7.9 is 39.41. It's hard to describe how solid this boat feels when on the water, again accepting that it IS going to heel somewhat early. But it won't keep heeling - at worst it will round up much before that, and likely you've already eased a bit before it would do so. I will say I like the 130 Genoa our boat has now for our family sailing vs. I think a 150 shown in the picture above. If you have more E25 questions, don't hesitate to send a PM.

What a beautiful shot!
Dillon would be her home port too.

 

[gabriel]

Loren is of course spot on. It is going to heel, and then it going to go like it is on rails. My E25 CB lived most of its life in Frisco, CO before being trucked east. My PO sent me this picture of our boat that perfectly captures the experience. I wish I knew the photographer to give them credit.

View attachment 42426

To give your wife more confidence, what other boats sail the lake you are planning to sail? I suspect not a bunch of full keel blue water boats. Check the numbers on those models as well. A Catalina 25 fixed is 41.76. An S2 7.9 is 39.41. It's hard to describe how solid this boat feels when on the water, again accepting that it IS going to heel somewhat early. But it won't keep heeling - at worst it will round up much before that, and likely you've already eased a bit before it would do so. I will say I like the 130 Genoa our boat has now for our family sailing vs. I think a 150 shown in the picture above. If you have more E25 questions, don't hesitate to send a PM.

That’s probably the best e25 pic I’ve seen! Thanks for the screen saver!

Before I sailed my boat I read some forum archives describing the E25cb as extremely tender and I was a little concerned—for nothing!

The e25cb is somewhat tender but nothing extraordinary, and it won’t flip over like an unballasted dingy.

Just like any other boat, it will develop weather helm which heeling exacerbates. Adjust your sail plan accordingly.

The e25 is a fine boat, one of the best classic 25 footers IMO.

 

[klb67pgh]

Great Shot! Wish we could be there to enjoy that sparkling water and sunshine.

I concur. I feel a bit guilty sailing her on our relatively docile PA lake given her prior sailing grounds (including last near Marblehead, MA). It is almost like she's retired from real sailing.

 

[klb67pgh]

My prior owner just sent me some additional pics he had received from his PO of our E25 under sail, that give good perspective of her sailing on a lean. And a gratuitous sunset pic.

 

[Blue Streak]

Loren is of course spot on. It is going to heel, and then it going to go like it is on rails. My E25 CB lived most of its life in Frisco, CO before being trucked east. My PO sent me this picture of our boat that perfectly captures the experience. I wish I knew the photographer to give them credit.

View attachment 42426

To give your wife more confidence, what other boats sail the lake you are planning to sail? I suspect not a bunch of full keel blue water boats. Check the numbers on those models as well. A Catalina 25 fixed is 41.76. An S2 7.9 is 39.41. It's hard to describe how solid this boat feels when on the water, again accepting that it IS going to heel somewhat early. But it won't keep heeling - at worst it will round up much before that, and likely you've already eased a bit before it would do so. I will say I like the 130 Genoa our boat has now for our family sailing vs. I think a 150 shown in the picture above. If you have more E25 questions, don't hesitate to send

My prior owner just sent me some additional pics he had received from his PO of our E25 under sail, that give good perspective of her sailing on a lean. And a gratuitous sunset pic.

View attachment 42473

View attachment 42474

View attachment 42475

Wow! I love those pics!
And I just agreed to buy the boat. Take title tomorrow.
Now the work begins

 

[Christian Williams]

Note that the miracle new forum software permits copy/paste of published photos, even thread-to-thread.

............

Oh, and congratulations! I've always admired the CB 25, nice move.

 

[jtsai]

Loren is of course spot on. It is going to heel, and then it going to go like it is on rails. My E25 CB lived most of its life in Frisco, CO before being trucked east. My PO sent me this picture of our boat that perfectly captures the experience. I wish I knew the photographer to give them credit.

View attachment 42426

To give your wife more confidence, what other boats sail the lake you are planning to sail? I suspect not a bunch of full keel blue water boats. Check the numbers on those models as well. A Catalina 25 fixed is 41.76. An S2 7.9 is 39.41. It's hard to describe how solid this boat feels when on the water, again accepting that it IS going to heel somewhat early. But it won't keep heeling - at worst it will round up much before that, and likely you've already eased a bit before it would do so. I will say I like the 130 Genoa our boat has now for our family sailing vs. I think a 150 shown in the picture above. If you have more E25 questions, don't hesitate to send a PM.

If your spouse still willing to go sailing after seeing picture with boat heeling way over, then you have nothing to worry about!!

 

[Blue Streak]

Note that the miracle new forum software permits copy/paste of published photos, even thread-to-thread.

View attachment 42476...View attachment 42477...View attachment 42478...View attachment 42479...

Oh, and congratulations! I've always admired the CB 25, nice move.

The purchase will spawn yet another before and after refitting thread.

 

[Blue Streak]

Loren is of course spot on. It is going to heel, and then it going to go like it is on rails. My E25 CB lived most of its life in Frisco, CO before being trucked east. My PO sent me this picture of our boat that perfectly captures the experience. I wish I knew the photographer to give them credit.

View attachment 42426

To give your wife more confidence, what other boats sail the lake you are planning to sail? I suspect not a bunch of full keel blue water boats. Check the numbers on those models as well. A Catalina 25 fixed is 41.76. An S2 7.9 is 39.41. It's hard to describe how solid this boat feels when on the water, again accepting that it IS going to heel somewhat early. But it won't keep heeling - at worst it will round up much before that, and likely you've already eased a bit before it would do so. I will say I like the 130 Genoa our boat has now for our family sailing vs. I think a 150 shown in the picture above. If you have more E25 questions, don't hesitate to send a PM.

After sailing a full season on Lake Dillon, I can confirm how solid this boat is!
I have seen 30 knots dozens of times and 40 knots more than once!
Fortunately the big puffs are usually brief, but she really is a solid little boat for just 25 feet.
I just received my new Rolly Tasker sails, having reduced the genoa to a 135 from 150.
But I offset that by adding an asymmetrical spinnaker for those light wind mornings.

 

[klb67pgh]

After sailing a full season on Lake Dillon, I can confirm how solid this boat is!
I have seen 30 knots dozens of times and 40 knots more than once!
Fortunately the big puffs are usually brief, but she really is a solid little boat for just 25 feet.
I just received my new Rolly Tasker sails, having reduced the genoa to a 135 from 150.
But I offset that by adding an asymmetrical spinnaker for those light wind mornings.

I would be interested to see how you rig your asym, especially at the tack if you have a furler for your genoa.

 

[Blue Streak]

I have not figured that out yet, but I will post when I do.

 

[gabriel]

After sailing a full season on Lake Dillon, I can confirm how solid this boat is!
I have seen 30 knots dozens of times and 40 knots more than once!
Fortunately the big puffs are usually brief, but she really is a solid little boat for just 25 feet.
I just received my new Rolly Tasker sails, having reduced the genoa to a 135 from 150.
But I offset that by adding an asymmetrical spinnaker for those light wind mornings.

I’m glad to hear this!

I find the E25 to have a wonderful motion when under sail, very smooth and gentle. nothing sudden or jarring. she gracefully rocks back and forth when confronted with swell or chop (especially when she’s on her side). puts my three girls to sleep every time! Balance the sails and it’s nothing but pure pleasure. A 25 footer to be proud of.

 

[frick]

Most Boats under 30 feet built in that era were designed for MORC (Midget Ocean Racing Class racing class).
When the boat is upright you get a shorter waterline than when she heels over. My 1971 E29 waterline would grow are two feet shen heeled over. 15 to 17 degrees was the magic amount of heel. Over 17 degrees of heel and the boat will start to slow down a bit.

She will NOT capsize, but she will round up into the wind with a big gust.

Rick