Factory original bilge pumps in 32-3

[peaman]

Apparently, (from comments here) some Ericsons, including some 32-3 were originally fitted with diaphragm type bilge pumps. My 1987 has a Rule pump in each bilge, but the installs are not great, and there are obvious signs of past DIY history. The idea of remote pumps, with minimal stuff in the bilge itself is pretty compelling. I haven't seen any signs of how remote pumps may have been installed previously, so I wonder where they may have been located? My hoses run from the respective bilges aft and then appear in the lazarette from between hull and liner in the port stern. I suppose pumps could be installed there, but lazarette space is precious. another possibility is just starboard of the exposed prop shaft. Does anyone know how bilge pumping was arranged from the factory?

 

[Loren Beach]

FWIW, I have seen pix of the same-era E-34/2 with the way-better Jasbsco bilge pump mounted in the engine compartment.
EY chose to mount both of those Jabsco pumps in our O-34, remotely from their pickups in the main bilge.
Observation: I do sometimes wonder if they put two of those $$ pumps in our boat because it was ordered up with a flock of options and extras, bound for a sailing club in SF?

As for the Rule pumps, they are a couple of clicks better than worthless, but not too far removed, dependent on their pricing to sell.
As Christian points out, these bilge pumps are not likely to save your boat, by themselves, but are great for removing "nuisance water". They will give you more time to find and stop a major leak, too.

 

[william.haas]

On my 1990 28 the bilge pumps (main and shower) are remotely installed underneath the quarter berth and accessed through a circular, removable panel. I did a quick scan, and did find a picture from another project. In the picture, my batteries are under the square panels and the bilge pumps are under the other, mounted against the vertical side of the liner for the quarter berth.

 

[peaman]

On my 1990 28 the bilge pumps (main and shower) are remotely installed underneath the quarter berth and accessed through a circular, removable panel.

I'm curious mostly about the 32-3 specifically, but this is interesting. Is that small access opening adequate for servicing your pumps? What brand/model pumps do you have?

 

[Pete the Cat]

On my 1989 32-200 I have two displacement Jabsco pumps in the engine compartment. One is for the shower and the other is in the bilge. I think it came from the factory like that. I think the previous owner (?) rigged an additional automatic bilge pump that emptied into the sink drain. I did not like this arrangement because the sink drain is very near the sea level of the boat, so I ran a hose to the stern through hull fitting. I am not sure if ordering these pumps was an option or standard. They are nice pumps and easy to service with no impellers, just a bellows and valve arrangement. I have seen these pumps on similar Ericson models in the boatyard.

 

[Nick J]

I currently have centrifugal pumps in the main bilge compartment and shower sump. They've worked OK, but I have had both fail in the three years I've owned the boat. The original setup was two displacement pumps located on the starboard side of the engine compartment Ray mentioned above. I repurposed this area for the main fresh water pump and water distribution manifold, so I need to find a new place for replacement bilge pumps. The current plan is to use flexible vane pumps located in the aft section of the port lazerette. both bilge pump hoses go through this area and it's right next to the batteries so hopefully it will be a good spot. I haven't seen too many flexible vane pumps used for bilges, but I'm thinking this will be a good fit. I know it isn't 32-3 specific, but should provide another data point.

 

[Loren Beach]

On my 1990 28 the bilge pumps (main and shower) are remotely installed underneath the quarter berth and accessed through a circular, removable panel. I did a quick scan, and did find a picture from another project. In the picture, my batteries are under the square panels and the bilge pumps are under the other, mounted against the vertical side of the liner for the quarter berth.

Bill, are those fabric bags at the top of the photo something that you have added for gear or clothing storage? Good idea, looks like...

 

[jtsai]

Apparently, (from comments here) some Ericsons, including some 32-3 were originally fitted with diaphragm type bilge pumps. My 1987 has a Rule pump in each bilge, but the installs are not great, and there are obvious signs of past DIY history. The idea of remote pumps, with minimal stuff in the bilge itself is pretty compelling. I haven't seen any signs of how remote pumps may have been installed previously, so I wonder where they may have been located? My hoses run from the respective bilges aft and then appear in the lazarette from between hull and liner in the port stern. I suppose pumps could be installed there, but lazarette space is precious. another possibility is just starboard of the exposed prop shaft. Does anyone know how bilge pumping was arranged from the factory?

My 1990 32-3 has a Rule pump in the main bilge that coexist with the manual pump intake. This is my third Rule pump in 3 years. I test it often.

The mast drain/sump pump has a Whaler Gulper diagram pump under the galley sink (see attached picture). The hose is not visible in the lazarette so I assume it runs under the cabinet floor, port side of the boat and resurface under galley sink cabinet near the foot pump. As seen in the picture, there is an inline filter before the pump to catch debris/hair, a loop after the pump then discharge to the stern.

Hope this helps.

 

[Frank Langer]

My 1990 32-3 has a Rule pump in the main bilge that coexist with the manual pump intake. This is my third Rule pump in 3 years. I test it often.

The mast drain/sump pump has a Whaler Gulper diagram pump under the galley sink (see attached picture). The hose is not visible in the lazarette so I assume it runs under the cabinet floor, port side of the boat and resurface under galley sink cabinet near the foot pump. As seen in the picture, there is an inline filter before the pump to catch debris/hair, a loop after the pump then discharge to the stern.

Hope this helps.

Jeff,
In looking at your attached pic I noticed that the clamp holding the black hose below the sink appears to be sort of crooked, leading me to wonder if it is on there correctly and properly tight. We all know of at least one boat where that hose slipped off, and being below the water line, allowed lots of water into the boat causing lots of damage. It might be worth checking/adjusting that clamp one more time.
Frank

 

[Christian Williams]

My 381 originally had two diaphragm pumps in the engine bay. I don't recall what the original 32-3 setup was, but if they were in the engine compartment the red bilge hoses were routed through there, and would have been joined where the pump formerly was.

Many boats went to submersible centrifugal pumps (Rule) as replacements. They famously quit after a few years, and don't fit very well among our keel boats, although they work fine for most folks. I came to hate them with an unreasonable passion, and went back to diaphragm pumps. .

 

[Kenneth K]

I've considered installing centrifugals in my 32-3 as well, but the plumbing difficulties have deterred me from taking on the project yet.

FYI: From the 1985 Ericson 32-3 manual: "Two electric bilge pumps are provided as standard. Both are of the submersible type. One drains the shower sump and is located in the shower sump which is accessible....... The other, of larger capacity, is located in the bilge sump beneath the cabin sole in the main salon."

So, the Rule-type pumps were standard (that's not to say a buyer couldn't pay for upgraded pumps from the factory).

In the 32-3, the two 3/4" bilge pump hoses run through the TAFG (via PVC conduit) until the engine compartment, then they run below the TAFG, on the port side of the engine, until they exit the TAFG in the lazarette, as you mentioned. Apparently, with the 32-200, Ericson had the hoses rise above the TAFG in the engine compartment, so diaphragm pumps could be mounted to the starboard side-wall of the engine compartment. I think the closest you can get to that in a 32-3 is to intercept the hoses outboard of the water heater (shown below, with the water heater removed) and re-route the hoses to a place of your choosing for pump installation.



Also, as a point of curiosity, I don't know why emotions on this site rise so high against Rule pumps. Universal diesels and Kenyon Mast sail tracks have their issues, too, but I don't hear people here referring to them as "junk." I cleaned all my bilges/hoses, removed any check-valves, and replaced & re-wired all my Rule pumps and float switches. Not only do they de-water the boat faithfully--I haven't had a failure in the last 6 years--and, at a lower power consumption than diaphragm pumps, but a Rule 800 and a Rule 500 literally saved my boat from sinking when my PSS ruptured in 2020. When TowBoat US finally arrived 5 days later (due to holiday closures of any haul-out facilities), the first thing they did was throw an emergency bilge pump and hose on-board (yes, it was a Rule 2000 centrifugal). Their pump never activated because my pumps had the situation under control.

Ruptured PSS

Certainly, diaphragm pumps may have some advantages over centrifugals, just as, say, a Yanmar, or electro-propulsion may have over a Universal/Kubota. Just as certainly, that does not make a Rule or a Kubota junk. I'll install a diaphragm pump myself someday, but for now it's pretty low on my priority list.

 

[Loren Beach]

Also, as a point of curiosity, I don't know why emotions on this site rise so high against Rule pumps. Universal diesels and Kenyon Mast sail tracks have their issues, too, but I don't hear people here referring to them as "junk."

Besides being entitled to a different opinion, your experiences are also different than mine with that pump product. I would not classify other owner's reports of pump failings as "emotional", however.

I also tried changing over to a Rule pump, back in the 90's, seduced by the advertised flow rate per dollar. Changed my mind after it back-syphoned quite a bit of water to flood the bilge. While such syphoning can be partly blamed on user error in hose routing, the way it would air lock and spin w/o moving water was the final straw. That and the actual testing of those and other pumps by Practical Sailor mag, where they revealed real-world shortcomings in the advertised flow ratings of most centrifugal pumps (not just Rule).

I like all sorts of small diesels, and have done long deliveries using them. Yanmar's are just fine, altho I do prefer the Kubota-based engines.

As said before here, opinions will vary with personal experiences. And it's those real-world experiences that make this site valuable!

Finally, that older (Kenyon?) spar section with the inset track extrusion is different from their mid/late 80's profiles. I am fortunate not to have that to deal with. Pure dumb luck on my part!

 

[Prairie Schooner]

We have Rule pumps in our bilge and shower sump. Based on recent posts in this site, they're probably due for replacement.
If a pump is installed elsewhere is it typical to put in a separate float switch?
Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Nick J]

I'm sure a lot of folks already know this, but just for anyone reading through this in the future, it's important to note Rule is a pump manufacturer. They make centrifugal, displacement, vane and other types of pumps.

The heart of the question is which type of pump (centrifugal vs displacement) is best for each use case. Brand x vs brand y is a different discussion. I've seen most brands fail and haven't noticed any one in particular fail more than another brand, so I usually choose a more affordable option. So far so good, but that doesn't mean it's the right decision.

Jeff,

the centrifugal pumps on my boat are two different types. The one in the main compartment is a2000gph model and does not include a float switch so I had to buy a separate one and wire it in. It can be used with a remote pump if I extend the wiring. The shower drain compartment is a lot smaller and I had a difficult time fitting a stitch and a pump together, so I installed a pump with a built in switch. I'll need to install a new switch in this compartment when I cut over to the remote pumps. The first thing to fail in every bilge pump system I've worked on has been the float switch, so I'm leaning towards the Water Witch switch.

In my case, both centrifugal pumps are currently functioning well and I'm only changing them out because I'm replacing the hoses. The most difficult part of any boat job for me is running wire and hoses. I already have everything torn apart, cushions are in my garage, and tools are spread out all over the place. If everything was put together and replacing the pumps meant missing cruising time, I would continue to put it off.

 

[peaman]

We have Rule pumps in our bilge and shower sump. Based on recent posts in this site, they're probably due for replacement.
If a pump is installed elsewhere is it typical to put in a separate float switch?
Thanks,
Jeff

Something needs to control the pump, whether a manual switch, a float switch or whatever, and that control needs to reliably turn the pump on, and just as reliably, turn it off. A bilge pump should be controlled (turn on, turn off) by water level (float switch?) in the pumped bilge. Similarly, a shower pump should be controlled by water level in that pumped sump or receiver. A pump installed anywhere else should be controlled according to its service. Hot water circulation: upon hot water demand. Pressure control: upon drop in system pressure. Heat pump cooling: whenever the compressor runs.

I hope I have understood the question, and perhaps have provided a useful answer.

 

[Christian Williams]

Rule dominates the market here, and Rule makes dozens of bilge pump styles. They have electronic sensing of water level, traditional internal float switches, or no switch at all if you like remote sensing.

A glance at the reviews of the Rule-Mate model, which I used to have, will suggest reputation.

 

[Loren Beach]

Something needs to control the pump, whether a manual switch, a float switch or whatever, and that control needs to reliably turn the pump on, and just as reliably, turn it off. A bilge pump should be controlled (turn on, turn off) by water level (float switch?) in the pumped bilge.

On this point, I do have two of the "analog" Rule float switches, one for each pump. They currently test and function just fine after about 5 years. I do check both floats many times a year, because they replaced ones that all failed for no discernible reason. They are a really good fit in our shallow bilge, or I might replace them with a different technology. Ironically their $35. float switches cost a fair % of the price of the actual bilge pump that they are supposed to accompany.
And the 1988 EY-installed Rule pump status switches both function just fine! Go figure.

 

[peaman]

The mast drain/sump pump has a Whaler Gulper diagram pump under the galley sink

I was not familiar with the Gulper until now, but it looks like a really good possibility, given positive displacement, easy service, flexible installation, reputable brand, and more. Thanks for sharing.

FYI: From the 1985 Ericson 32-3 manual: "Two electric bilge pumps are provided as standard. Both are of the submersible type. One drains the shower sump and is located in the shower sump which is accessible....... The other, of larger capacity, is located in the bilge sump beneath the cabin sole in the main salon."

Thanks for this. I wanted to know what my boat might have looked like originally, so if that was better than what I have, I would lean that way. But apparently, what I have is generally the original, other than that extra run of wiring from battery to main bilge....

To your points on perceived bias against Rule, I think it's mostly empty expressions of frustration. Boat owners are a demanding bunch, between dealing with small spaces and other physical limitations, need for easy servicing, need for high reliability, often aesthetic considerations, and by the way, we want it tomorrow and we don't want to pay too much (anything, really). Rule has a huge market footprint because they are doing something right. But along with our many demands, we want something to do more that it is really designed for, like pumping hair, and grease, wood chips and rubber bands. All we want is the smallest, cheapest pump to pump everything thrown at it for years on end and to never make too much noise or require any but the simplest service. And because Rule has come closest to doing all of that in so many cases, they should take pride in how frequently they are cited by name in discussions of pumps. Here's to Rule, who, in many cases, comes in second only to an imaginary ideal pump.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I currently have centrifugal pumps in the main bilge compartment and shower sump. They've worked OK, but I have had both fail in the three years I've owned the boat. The original setup was two displacement pumps located on the starboard side of the engine compartment Ray mentioned above. I repurposed this area for the main fresh water pump and water distribution manifold, so I need to find a new place for replacement bilge pumps. The current plan is to use flexible vane pumps located in the aft section of the port lazerette. both bilge pump hoses go through this area and it's right next to the batteries so hopefully it will be a good spot. I haven't seen too many flexible vane pumps used for bilges, but I'm thinking this will be a good fit. I know it isn't 32-3 specific, but should provide another data point.

View attachment 45717View attachment 45716

I have that arrangment on my Tartan 37 (vane bilge pump located remote from the bilge--works well. Buy a Globe neoprene impeller if the pumps came with the old rubber ones-you generally run a bilge pump dry and they don't like it. The expensive impellers are a good investment. Learned through experience.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I might replace them with a different technology.

Any reason you can't go with a Water Witch? I replaced a busted float switch with one of these and it has been utterly reliable.