Wind instrument - bird problems

[MaineCapeSailor]

The wind vane for the wired Garmin wind instrument installed in 2013 at the top of my mast has disappeared twice apparently due to be a young osprey in the neighborhood that likes to attempt to perch on it. I have seen it perched on the top of other nearby masts. I have had no problems in prior years. After the first loss, we tried to use some adhesive to more firmly attach the replacement vane to the body of the instrument, but that did not work. The rotating cups are unaffected.

The newer Garmin Gwind wind instrument seems to use a different 4 wire cable that requires replacing the existing cable plus a GND 10 black box at the bass of the mast to be able to talk to my NEMA 2000 system. Total cost excluding installation is $700, plus this newer system seems to receive uniformly unfavorable reviews due to erratic performance. Lots of frustration with the Gwind system is evident online.

Another option would be to replace it with a Raymarine wind instrument. The unit is smaller and appears to be less susceptible to perching birds. It seems to use a 5 wire NEMA 2000 cable like the one in my mast now (?). However it seems to require a Raymarine ITC 5 black box to be able to translate and connect into my existing Garmin NEMA 2000 system.

Does anyone have experience with such a hybrid system?

A final option would be to install some sort of spike above the existing Garmin instrument to protect the vane. Any experience?

 

[Slick470]

As far as I am aware, most if not all marine instrument manufacturers have standardized their NMEA 2000 "sentences" for common transducers like wind, depth, temp, and speed. So, once you are at a point where you are outputting NMEA 2000 onto the network, other manufacturer's displays should see and display data from any other manufacturer's transducers. You should also be able to calibrate and dampen as needed too.

Where things get messy is for things like autopilots, where each manufacturer uses custom sentences, and it becomes difficult to fully control from another manufacturer's device.

For wind instruments, I think several manufacturers tried putting the NMEA 2000 bits in the transducer at the mast head and then had a lot of failures of the PCB board in the instrument. So they changed direction and moved the NMEA 2000 bits into a conversion box inside the boat, but that meant the cable in the mast needs replaced too. I'll eventually be in the same situation when my B&G wind gives up and I need to replace it with a current version.

 

[Christian Williams]

I've had good luck for six years with Raymarine (Tack Tick) wireless anemometer, but a cormorant sat on the cups six months ago. New cups are cheap and just press on, if I can remember to hire somebody to climb the mast. Early reviews were brutally negative, but the thing works fine.

 

[Slick470]

The wireless stuff seems to be hit and miss. Some people seem to have no issues whatsoever, and others can never seem to get them to work properly. I don't know if the ones that never seem to work fall to user error or wonky devices or what the deal is.

 

[Christian Williams]

I'm not really advocating, but sellers will take it back in 30 days if dissatisfied, and since they're wireless no de-install issues.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I've had good luck for six years with Raymarine (Tack Tick) wireless anemometer, but a cormorant sat on the cups six months ago. New cups are cheap and just press on, if I can remember to hire somebody to climb the mast. Early reviews were brutally negative, but the thing works fine.

This is encouraging. I'd love to get one of these at some point. Perhaps they've ironed out the kinks in this system. 6 years (and counting) is a pretty good run.

 

[Slick470]

This is encouraging. I'd love to get one of these at some point. Perhaps they've ironed out the kinks in this system. 6 years (and counting) is a pretty good run.

My biggest concern with the Tacktick stuff at this point is how old it is compared to everything else on the market. Raymarine bought Tacktick back in 2011 and other than rebranding it a little bit, it doesn't appear that they have done much else with it. Most other major product lines, including Raymarine's other products have been updated a couple times in that same timeframe.

Not to say that it is a bad product, but I wonder if they've forgotten about it.

 

[Alan Gomes]

My biggest concern with the Tacktick stuff at this point is how old it is compared to everything else on the market. Raymarine bought Tacktick back in 2011 and other than rebranding it a little bit, it doesn't appear that they have done much else with it. Most other major product lines, including Raymarine's other products have been updated a couple times in that same timeframe.

Not to say that it is a bad product, but I wonder if they've forgotten about it.

What would you see as a good and possibly more modern alternative?

 

[ConchyDug]

I race on a boat with all 3 major brands installed, it's aggravating as hell. Nav table plotter is a Garmin 12xx, deck unit is B&G Vulcan 9, then like 4 Raymarine tacktick mast displays, water transducer is airmar, the wind instrument is a B&G.... this system works somehow. It's just very annoying to have to navigate 3 different menu tiering systems for setup and calibration though. So it's doable to go with a hybrid system like 470 said. I've setup that system with some info he posted on Sailing Anarchy about B&G, so thanks dude.

I think people having issues with the Garmin gwind and GND 10 don't understand that Nexus software is needed to set it up right which isn't that difficult. I've ran into an issue once maybe twice when doing a manual update via MicroSD, it needed to be paired up again using the Nexus software. Other than that I've heard zero problems.

My gwind has the horizontal arm that moves the instrument forward of the mast so it gives birds the better option to perch on that rather than the spinning fan. I also use a disco ball hanging from the boom to scare birds.

 

[Slick470]

A lot depends on how complicated you want the system to be, but if you are considering the Tacktick option, then you're probably looking for wind/speed/depth, ability to add in a chart plotter, and maybe networked autopilot? If that's about right, then B&G, Raymarine, and Garmin all make W/S/D packages with 1 or two multifunction displays that connect with a NMEA 2000 network. All offer various autopilot options and chartplotter options to meet the boat configuration and price point. I'm pretty sure all three offer wireless wind sensors as an options, but as I noted earlier, some people have issues with them, others don't. If you are building out a full on race boat or world cruiser, then B&G has some additional processor options and features that might make you lean that direction, (and at that point you might also consider NKE although I don't think they are as well supported in the US)

Basically, I'd be looking at a NMEA 2000 W/S/D system and while you can mix and match, sticking with the same manufacturer, or brand family, can save a lot of headaches with interoperability and even applying updates.

On my boat, I was in a position to replace the old Autohelm stuff with all new. I went with B&G for my system. I started with a Triton W/S/D package, and added a 2nd Triton display. Later I added a Vulcan chartplotter and a new NMEA 2000 VHF with AIS from Lowrance (B&G, Lowrance, and Simrad are all part of the same brand family). A year or two later I added in an autopilot. I have a tiller boat, and didn't want to go through the process of installing a below deck ram, so I went with a Raymarine Evo series tiller pilot, which then meant I have a separate B&G system, and a separate Raymarine system. Well, they can connect with an adapter, so I connected them. The B&G stuff can "see" and use the data from the Raymarine stuff and vice versa. I don't have full control of the AP through the B&G stuff, but I can put in a course on the chart plotter and then tell the AP to follow it through a series of button pushes. It's kind of clunky but it works.

With the newer NMEA 2000 stuff, the manufacturers can also push out updates to fix bugs, add functionality, and basically extend the support for longer by rolling out updates every now and then. These updates usually need to be applied either over WiFi or via SD card. Typically this is done via the chartplotter. (although the B&G Triton 2 displays have an SD card slot, I'm not sure if the others do now too) and it needs to be done via a chartplotter the same brand. So, to update my VHF, Vulcan, or Triton displays, I can update them via the Vulcan, but I would need a Raymarine chartplotter to update my autopilot. (I needed to update my autopilot...)

Well, that got long... hopefully I haven't lost you.

 

[Slick470]

I race on a boat with all 3 major brands installed, it's aggravating as hell. Nav table plotter is a Garmin 12xx, deck unit is B&G Vulcan 9, then like 4 Raymarine tacktick mast displays, water transducer is airmar, the wind instrument is a B&G.... this system works somehow. It's just very annoying to have to navigate 3 different menu tiering systems for setup and calibration though. So it's doable to go with a hybrid system like 470 said. I've setup that system with some info he posted on Sailing Anarchy about B&G, so thanks dude.

I think people having issues with the Garmin gwind and GND 10 don't understand that Nexus software is needed to set it up right which isn't that difficult. I've ran into an issue once maybe twice when doing a manual update via MicroSD, it needed to be paired up again using the Nexus software. Other than that I've heard zero problems.

My gwind has the horizontal arm that moves the instrument forward of the mast so it gives birds the better option to perch on that rather than the spinning fan. I also use a disco ball hanging from the boom to scare birds.

Glad to have helped, I think...

I think both Garmin and Raymarine's wireless tech came from acquisitions. On the Raymarine side, they got theirs from Tacktick and on the Garmin side, they got theirs when they bought Nexus. Nexus made some pretty good stuff, but they also seem to have been mostly absorbed into Garmin, but otherwise forgotten.

The biggest complaints I see from the big three are poor tech support and not so great manuals. I've done ok with both Ray and B&G when I've needed to reach out, but a lot of people can't say the same. I've had less experience on the Garmin side, (I like my watch though)

 

[Slick470]

What would you see as a good and possibly more modern alternative?

Alan, I wrote up all of the above without looking what boat you own. For a 26 footer, the Tacktick system would still probably be a great option, especially if you don't really need a networked system.

If it were me, and with it being boatshow season, I'd visit the Raymarine booth and ask some hard questions about their product lines, what they see as the future as far as updates and ongoing support. Raymarine is also one of the last manufacturers to sell the "old style" instruments where you have dedicated displays for a transducer. That might also be a good option for you. Look at the i40 (smaller form factor B&W displays), i50 (square display), and i60 (square wind) series stuff. (i70 is their NMEA 2000 line)

 

[Alan Gomes]

A lot depends on how complicated you want the system to be, but if you are considering the Tacktick option, then you're probably looking for wind/speed/depth, ability to add in a chart plotter, and maybe networked autopilot?

Actually, my own interest is a good deal simpler than that. I just want wind direction and speed (true and apparent). I've already got depth on my chart plotter. MAYBE if it were easy enough I'd hook in the autopilot to sail to apparent wind but that's not essential.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Alan, I wrote up all of the above without looking what boat you own. For a 26 footer, the Tacktick system would still probably be a great option, especially if you don't really need a networked system.

Yeah, that sounds about right for me.

 

[Slick470]

Actually, my own interest is a good deal simpler than that. I just want wind direction and speed (true and apparent). I've already got depth on my chart plotter. MAYBE if it were easy enough I'd hook in the autopilot to sail to apparent wind but that's not essential.

To get true wind speed, you'll probably need to connect your chart plotter to the instruments so it can measure COG and SOG to use in the TWD and TWS calculations. Each manufacturer does that a bit differently. With NMEA 2000 instruments, interconnections are pretty simple, almost plug and play. The major hurdles are just making sure you are getting data from the correct sources and things are calibrated. With older style stuff, you often need adapters and/or converters to get stuff to talk to each other, and usually more fiddling.

 

[Loren Beach]

For true wind or apparent wind speed and direction, we have had a one-button option on our ST-60 Raymarine wind speed meter for a couple of decades. It shares the "Sea Talk" bus with our same-generation KM. There must be a chip in there that integrates the data, but to me it's just magic...

 

[Pete the Cat]

I've had good luck for six years with Raymarine (Tack Tick) wireless anemometer, but a cormorant sat on the cups six months ago. New cups are cheap and just press on, if I can remember to hire somebody to climb the mast. Early reviews were brutally negative, but the thing works fine.

I just bought the replacement cups for that same Raymarine anemometer. $60. Kit comes omes with the screw and the vane. Maybe you have another source.

 

[Christian Williams]

We may not have the same product. T101?

And I'm not sure they fit, since not yet installed. About $20, various vendors.

Raymarine TA101 Replacement Wind Cup Set for Anemometer

Wind Transducer Cups for All Wind Transducers by Raymarine. The TA101 is a Replacement Wind Cup Set forAnemometer from Raymarine. This product is made of high-quality materials to serve you for years to come. Designed using state-of-the-art technology and with customers in mind. It will meet...

uspmarine.com

 

[Pete the Cat]

I might have paid too much for the wrong part. I will know in a couple days as the mast is coming out for storage.

 

[hjohnson]

So most of the problem with the Garmin G-Wind is they did not properly terminate the RS485 bus at the GND-10. The underlying up/down mast is the old school Nexus network, from when the instruments were made by Silva.

Anyhow, the fix is pretty simple. Add a 120ohm resistor across the data pair down at the gnd-10 end (or close by) and the unit becomes extremely reliable.

We actually figured this one out trying to troubleshoot things, and noticed that it was stable/reliable when we had our old Nexus Wind head unit connected to the nexus side, and unstable with it disconnected. Put two and two together (I'm a computer Engineer old enough to remember termination resistors) and boom. Done. It's now worked reliably for 2 years, except for a brief period when the up-mast connector got filled with bird crap.