Furling genoa in heavier wind

[JPS27]

I no longer have my ericson but this is a sailing question so I hope that's ok.

I was sailing my 36 footer this weekend and the wind piped up 2x what was called for. I was furling the jib in about 20k or more. Typically I let out the genoa to relieve tension and just furl. That's how I would do it on my ericson 27. Well, I was having a really hard time furling, so I let out more and more sheet. The sheet got a lot of slack in it as I clearly let out too much or too fast. I heard a pop, like a fire cracker. but got the genoa in fine. Then realized the popl was my dodger starboard window shattered.

So, what would be the proper process for furling a genoa in sportier conditions? Should I have gone into the wind? I'm finding (obviously) that the forces at play are much higher on this boat. Probably exposing mistakes I've been making but with little to no negative feedback. Some things are easier, others not compared to my 27 footer. Thanks. Hay

 

[Loren Beach]

Bigger boat = much larger (proportional) forces.
A few years ago I tried to roll in our jib when the wind had increased to 18/20 plus. Being a creature of habit I had turned on the engine and was motoring slowly into the wind. Dumb. Lots of flogging when the old furler slowed/jammed due to too much pressure and flapping. Blew out one of the 3 vertical battens before we got it rolled in.
Due to too much slack in the sheets they got somewhat tangled up from all that flapping around, too.
i should have reduced the forces a lot by just turning downwind and let the main shelter that jib.
Nice sunny afternoon, and no one was hurt. Later there was some (likely overdue anyway) pain to my wallet-- Jib repair and new furler.

I learn new stuff most every time I sail or take the boat out. The accumulated knowledge would start to be very useful IF I could live to 150.

Small world comment: back when we were starting to shop for a big boat we boarded a Pearson 365. All I really remember now is the huge enclosed shower and the ketch rig. IIRC it had a nice nav desk, as well.

 

[G Kiba]

If you can sail downwind deep enough, you can shadow the jib to make it easier to roll up. Else, point as high as you can briefly to make it easier to roll up. If you have a bendy mast, easing the backstay a bit helps.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

I agree about heading downwind to furl the headsail. My procedure is to sheet in the main to prevent damage from an accidental jibe, then let the traveller down all the way, have the "admiral" i.e. wife, head down wind as much as possible to shadow the headsail and take the pressure off it. Before this, I sheet in the head sail as much as possible so the she need not head dead downwind to shadow the head sail. This procedure results in little flogging of the head sail and does not require a winch to furl the head sail. If she does accidentally jibe, there will be no damage because the main is sheeted in. And, of course, do it early.

 

[Christian Williams]

I feel we should be able to furl a medium sized genoa -- say a 130 on an E38--to windward, without altering course. There are conditions, 30 knots in a seaway, at night, when altering course introduces complication, or at least work., requires adjustment of the self steering vane and then regaining course. In a fleet environment, having to radically alter course to reduce sail may not be possible and might confuse other boats.

Hold the windward course. Slack the sheet so the sail luffs violently, but first assure that the lazy sheet is controlled so it doesn't flog itself Into a tangle or run through the blocks and go overboard.

The initial turn of the furler is hardest, and may take all your strength. I'm 80 and it takes all of mine. The point is, you can do it if you believe you can do it, and I believe I can do it and so I can. A winch is OK, too, for the first turns. The headsail begins to furl more easily very quickly.

Yes, the violent flogging of the sheets under such conditions is distracting, and tangles will occur if not anticipated and prevented.

But try it next time. If I can do it, anybody can.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Christian, we tried this technique on my E34 with a 130 genoa in SF in about 20+ kt of wind. It was too much to furl by hand, so I had to release the active sheet and use the winch since I was on a starboard tack and the furling line is on the port side. Needless to say, it was a mess and that is when I came up with the downwind technique. Granted, if I were on a port tack I would have had the port winch to use for the furling line without having to release the jib sheet but that would have involved a course change and it that high wind, not a simple task. Aside from the needed course change to downwind, do you see any other problems?

 

[ConchyDug]

I'd probably check the furling blocks/deck hardware for friction they don't last forever. When I bought my boat the first block back from the furling drum had crushed torlon bearings which made furling very difficult. You couldn't tell from a visual inspection only from loading the block up and trying to spin the sheave. I replaced it with a frictionless ring or thru lead that clamped to the pulpit... less maintenance.

 

[Christian Williams]

My comment is just stuff to consider. What works is what works. But in heavy air I always release the active sheet pretty much entirely, despite all the noise. And I see what you mean, on one tack there isn't an available winch, but I think one of my cabin-house winches would work. Never used a winch on a furler, my original Mark I Harken can do it without.

 

[Christian Williams]

Harken, on maintenance.

https://www.harken.com/en/support/tech-articles/jib-furling-service-and-maintenance/

(See "Sail will not furl or unfurl")

Not recommended in that summary, but I read somewhere that the drum bearing can be doused with "WD40", which to me means PB Blaster. It is then to be flooded away with water and detergent after 10 minutes. And in conversation with support, I have been told that it's OK to spray a little McLube etc. as well. The admonition against oil or grease, I think, is mostly because such stuff picks up grit, not because the whole idea of lubricant is bad.

My unit makes less noise after such cleaning. And of course luff tension figures into ease of operation, too, and my sailmaker says everybody's luff is too tight, that with modern sails the halyard isn't a Cunningham and we're not really altering the draft. "Just get the wrinkles out."

But there are lots of variables and conflicting experts, so common sense, and frequent hose washdowns to remove salt and dirt, are about all I have to go on.

More from Harken, which I summarize as "it sorta depends":

In a breeze, you must completely luff sail by totally slacking jib sheets before furling. The furling line should pull readily. The amount of force required is related to amount of wind, but unit should never require use of a winch to furl. If the sail will not furl, or if furling requires a great deal of effort, there is a problem with system. Consult the Troubleshooting Guide on page 33. Do not use a winch to force a system to turn. If you are certain that the system is operating properly, you may use a winch to make furling easier

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Christian, thanks for your comments. I always worry about using a winch to furl, even just to get it started. Also, I was told that flogging is very bad and even for a short time, it shortens the lifetime of a sail. With this downwind technique there is no flogging. But I certainly agree that having to maneuver in a high wind may be problematic. As my "Admiral" says, reef and furl early, and often!

 

[G Kiba]

I had a crew member that showed me that you can pull on the furler line, just forward of the block like jacking or jumping a halyard but pulling upward. Worked really well! I never thanked her, but will next time I see her. Be sure someone tails and cleats the line as it rolls up.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

We usually sail double handed, and when we furl the head sail, it is the "admiral" at the helm and me pulling the furling line, no hands available to jack the furling line. And single handing in a still breeze, worse yet. But with the downwind technique and autopilot and the main sheeted in in case of a jibe, not too bad.

 

[Christian Williams]

I would call it a workaround rather than a technique.

 

[southofvictor]

When upwind I‘ve found that pinching enough to get the first wrap on will usually do it. Just watch the sail and when the luff bubbles pull hard. Like Christian said above that first wrap can be a bitch but it gets easier fast.

Also I have used the cabin top winch once or twice when single handed just to get it started. I think if you’re mindful of what it feels like you can safely use a winch without risking damage. Just pay attention (which can admittedly be tough when the shit’s hitting the fan) and stop if it’s truly fouled on something - like a spin halyard wrap or an override on the furling drum.

 

[ConchyDug]

It's called banjo'n or jumping it's pretty common in racing for the foredeck crew. My wife and I double hand as well, I banjo the furler if conditions are chill, meaning I go forward sit on the anchor locker and suck it in, wife handles wheel, sheet, furling line. It's a risk going forward so know your limits.

 

[Christian Williams]

For the record, and I understand that many of our old systems are imperfect, and that we all often have to make do, but I think it is a very good idea to get the roller furler working the way it's supposed to. Roller systems are sophisticated replacements of the old hanks, which were pretty much fail-safe. Rollers aren't.

Two most underappreciated major issues on sailboats are a mainsail that won't come down, and a furler that sticks or fails.

It doesn't take much to see why that is: to be confronted in a rising wind with hundreds of feet of canvas that cannot be reduced is to be behind a big eight-ball, often with no immediate solution. It can make simply returning to the slip a challenge. Many citations above are of furling systems that are not working as they should, which would get my full attention.

 

[southofvictor]

FWIW soon after we started sailing Quincy and found the furling harder than expected we invested in Harken stanchion blocks and a turning block with friction sheave than can be switched on or off. It helped a lot.

https://www.harken.com/en/shop/furling-accessories/stanchion-mount-lead-block-kit/

 

[AdventurousAnton]

FWIW soon after we started sailing Quincy and found the furling harder than expected we invested in Harken stanchion blocks and a turning block with friction sheave than can be switched on or off. It helped a lot.

https://www.harken.com/en/shop/furling-accessories/stanchion-mount-lead-block-kit/

I had a similar setup on my Soverel 36, and have been thinking along the same lines for my E30+. Do you care to share some photos of your setup? I had mine set up higher on my midship stanchion, and then lower coming back into the cockpit. I'd be very interested in how you put it all together. TYIA!