What makes a good project boat?

[TolaMarts]

Have been considering buying a project boat to hone my mechanical skills. Because I'm a Christian Williams fan, I'm partial to Ericsons. This owner wants a curiously specific amount of money- $4,116.82- for his 1973 Ericson 39 flush deck:

Sailing Puget Sound and San Juan Islands | Hello everyone - putting this out there for the “wisdom of crowds” | Facebook

Hello everyone - putting this out there for the “wisdom of crowds”. I’ve got an 1973 Ericson 39 that needs love I can’t provide any more. I’ve been told to give it away, salvage it or walk away (not...

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Clearly needs a ton of work. What makes the difference between a boat that would respond well to sustained and focused TLC, versus a boat from which one should flee in abject terror? It has a slip already, so I wouldn't have to find it a new home immediately. That headliner situation looks dire- is that just a bunch of work and/or money, or a dealbreaker?

 

[peaman]

That headliner situation looks dire- is that just a bunch of work and/or money, or a dealbreaker?

The headliner is a good example of why a question like yours can only really be answered by you. It all depends on what you want. A headliner can be ripped out and replaced with paint, or with new panels of some custom design, or, if willing to spend the money, it can be replaced/restored to match the original. In any case, the finished product may be all wrong in the opinion of others, but perfect for you. Ericson is certainly a better place to start with a project boat than some other models, but lots of other considerations will factor into whether the end result will have been "worth it".

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I'd say break it down into major components like - hull/deck; engine; electronics; sails; rigging; interior; what else??
If too many major components need major work, pass it by.
Without a solid hull and reasonable deck, solid mast, I'd forget it.
What can you work on yourself? What can you afford?
How soon/much do you want to sail it? Are you okay with it just sitting for a couple years? Cuz once you start taking things apart . . . Double every time and cost estimate for fixing things. Is there a haul out place where you can leave it on the hard for months at a time?
Any old boat will give you more than ample opportunity to hone mechanical skills. You don't need a basket case.

I follow @cessnateur on Instagram. I cropped this from a photo of his hangar.
He bought a 1953 Cessna 170B and his adventures with an old plane parallel nicely with ours in old boats. Except they need to hire certified mechanics for most repairs and upgrades.


Don't mind me. I'm in the third off-season of major boat work so I might sound like Debbie Downer. Make the wisest choice you can then don't look back. Go sailing as often as you can.
Cheers,
Jeff

 

[Christian Williams]

You can certainly look at it, but note that a boat being given away has no market value. Looking at a lot of boats prevents falling in love with the wrong bride. And divorce is hard.

To engage such a project you really should live next to the boat, have a well equipped shop, and be either retired or married to a countess.

On the other hand, if that's a carbon fiber whisker pole it's worth what the owner is asking for the whole boat.

 

[southofvictor]

I want a copy of that banner!

 

[Loren Beach]

I want a copy of that banner!

Me too!!

 

[Afrakes]

One that doesn't exist.

 

[p.gazibara]

“Project boat” can mean a lot of things. We just recently looked at a Delta 46 “Project Boat” that washed ashore in the last big cyclone to hit NZ. She had a big old hole in her keel, but amazingly survived on her side for 5 days before being returned to the water and motored the 100nm to Whangarei. She’s been on the hard over a year and the glass of half the hull planed back to expose any cracks. Several floors along with the forward mast step tabbing let go from the hull, along with other cosmetic damage due to all that flexing. I expect all the deck fittings and port lights are again due for rebedding. Rigging needed renewed, anything on the masthead was removed by a tree, and the genoa was also destroyed by said tree. Then there was the reason the engine died in the storm allowing the boat to be washed ashore. Fuel bug? Plugged filters? Overheat?

I have also seen “project boats” that simply need new rigging and a paint job, off you go.

How much of the web do you want to restring?

I don't see any harm in going aboard and having a look. Just try not to get emotionally attached!

 

[bigd14]

Every boat is a project boat, you have to run in place just to keep up.

After rebuilding a 27 and much of a 30+, and given the amount of work required just to staunch the inevitable decay that occurs with time, my tolerance for large scale projects has diminished. If I had a large property where I could store a boat and a big workshop I might change my tune.

The amount of time spent getting to and from the boat, measuring stuff and procuring materials can be huge. Procurement seems to be one of my biggest time sinks. I almost always need something right in the middle of a project. Last weekend for example, after dismantling the coolant loop to replace a leaky fitting, I found the one I had ordered from McMaster Carr was slightly undersized so I had to burn an entire afternoon going across town to the specialty plumbing store to find the right item. A 20 minute job turned into three hours. This is a constant state of affairs during a big renovation unless you have a chandlery or West Marine, a Home Depot, and various companies that sell stainless fasteners, weird plumbing bits etc., right next to you.

 

[Loren Beach]

This is a constant state of affairs during a big renovation unless you have a chandlery or West Marine, a Home Depot, and various companies that sell stainless fasteners, weird plumbing bits etc., right next to you.

A-Men. There were several important reasons for carrying out our ten month full re-fit at a shop operated by a friend. Besides his abilities and skills, there was his on-site supply of fastenings and "consumables" like abrasives. And, a lot of electrical and pneumatic tools.

Even then, there were occasional waits for parts that he ordered or I ordered -- regular deliveries from WM and Fisheries, among others.
Note that I did not have to do any structural repairs either. Having a boat with Good Bones is very important when doing a restoration.
That, and an enclosed secure building with heat and AC....... !

 

[p.gazibara]

All boats have their maintenance lists, but I wouldn’t call them all project boats.

Says the guy about to take on a project boat…

 

[peaman]

but I wouldn’t call them all project boats.

Ideally, any project boat would eventually graduate to "maintenance list" status. I like to think that my 32-3 is near to that, after three years' ownership and a few minor work items:
New standing rigging
Media-blast and Awlgrip spars
Replace all electronics with new wind instruments, water speed and depth, GPS VHF, AIS transceiver, chart plotter, radar and wheel pilot, all connected on a new NMEA2000 network
New throttle and gear shift cables
New stainless steel helm guard with Navpod and varnished teak cockpit table
Replace original refrigeration with new
Replace original CNG tank and galley stove with new propane supply and Force 10 stove.
Rewire DC panel
Replace crazed lenses in overhead hatch and opening port lights with new.
New battery charger with dedicated start and house battery arrangement, including ABYC recommended fusing on batteries and hot cables
New engine compartment service light
New solar panel on dodger
Replaced deteriorated vision panels in dodger
All new hoses in head
Remove and rebed anchor locker, bow pulpit and bow cleats
New 1x19 lifelines to replace original vinyl covered 7x7
New electric+engine-heated hot water heater
Fresh water flush in head
Reconfigure winches and clutches at companionway, including new self-tailing winches to replace original

The "project" list is long, but I'm just about down to only the "maintenance list" of varnishing, and enjoying my 37 year-old nearly-new classic yacht.

 

[Robid]

I would make the demarkation line between project and otherwise as functionality. Good bones as Loren mentions is paramount. If however you can use the boat and continue with projects than you cross that line. Sure my overhead sags a bit, my sails are tired, I have antiquated equipment...as long as things are seaworthy its all good.

 

[Elgyn]

Me too!!

They're on Amazon. I just ordered one

 

[Christian Williams]

Have been considering buying a project boat to hone my mechanical skills.

I think the bottom line is, do it. Almost every first project boat is a profound learning experience and a mistake.

My first cruising boat, a 20-foot midget English centerboarder, had a trailer that could only go 20 miles an hour. I parked it in my driveway, and when I leaned my motorcycle against it the handlebar went through the side. Thence I learned how to rebuild an entire plywood stern quarter, and that a bad icebox drain makes dry rot. I cruised that boat Philadelphia to the Chesapeake and as it fell apart I learned how not to, and although broke, a condition that was to continue for a long time, how to fix a broken rudder on a Sunday in a closed boatyard far from home, using rusty bolts found in the dirt.

But start small. A 1973 Ericson 39 is a last project, not a first. Learning boat restoration is like learning a language. It takes a while. It's not like learning to play the guitar, which the talented seem to do overnight. Talent in boat mechanics is secondary to hands-on time and tools.

 

[Drewm3i]

Have been considering buying a project boat to hone my mechanical skills.

I think the bottom line is, do it. Almost every first project boat is a profound learning experience and a mistake.

My first cruising boat, a 20-foot midget English centerboarder, had a trailer that could only go 20 miles an hour. I parked it in my driveway, and when I leaned my motorcycle against it the handlebar went through the side. Thence I learned how to rebuild an entire plywood stern quarter, and that a bad icebox drain makes dry rot. I cruised that boat Philadelphia to the Chesapeake and as it fell apart I learned how not to, and although broke, a condition that was to continue for a long time, how to fix a broken rudder on a Sunday in a closed boatyard far from home, using rusty bolts found in the dirt.

But start small. A 1973 Ericson 39 is a last project, not a first. Learning boat restoration is like learning a language. It takes a while. It's not like learning to play the guitar, which the talented seem to do overnight. Talent in boat mechanics is secondary to hands-on time and tools.

View attachment 50568

Bingo.

I would add that nearly every boat is a project boat, but that many aren't worth fixing. I may be getting ready to take on a free Ericson that has been sitting for some time to bring her back to life (will make a thread or blog if/when it comes to fruition), but in doing so I know it will take 2-3 years of work and $50,000+ with me doing it all myself. Maybe I'm dumb. Maybe we all are to varying degrees...

 

[gabriel]

Tola,

with her flush deck and her era specific IOR hull (her stern is so pinched she doesn’t even have quarter berths), she just doesn’t make a desirable cruising boat even if she was in decent shape. Really her next home should be the junkyard as there is some considerable value in her spars, winches and other accessories.

The advice to go out and look at a lot of boats is wise, I would do just that.

 

[Loren Beach]

I would politely disagree about the supposed cruise-worthiness of the E-39. A couple from our YC spent several summers cruising that same design to BC waters and back. They liked it a lot and later sold it to refit and cruise a much larger boat (non Ericson). That flush deck is great for storing or inflating dinghies for one, and the IOR shape is not extreme compared to many of the old Mk 1 designs. Another forum participant here cruised one with his wife to the south seas and back with no problems. Another forum participant left to go cruising a few years ago in the "B" version, with same hull but with the trunk cabin.
It all gets back to how much needs to be done (time and $) before casting off in search of those palm trees......

It may help to remember that the IOR was a measurement rule, and designers varied in their ideas for implementing it. A lot of boats from the era had influences from that general "look" because non racers wanted to own something like they saw in the sailing magazines. And, many were a lot less squirrelly off the wind than others. After all, people have been blue water cruising in sailboats with much less of a stern shape - double enders - for a century.
There is an Alajuela 38 moored near me, and that couple completed a circumnavigation in that same boat recently. While it's not the type of design that totally attracts my eye, I would not dismiss it solely due to its not having a broad transom like my Olson.

 

[gabriel]

I would politely disagree about the cruise-worthiness. A couple from our YC spent several summers cruising that same design to BC waters and back. They liked it and later sold it to refit and cruise a much larger boat (non Ericson). That flush deck is great for storing or inflating dinghies, and the IOR shape is not extreme compared to many of the old Mk 1 designs. Another forum participant here cruised one with his wife to the south seas and back with no problems. Another forum participant has gone cruising a few years ago in the "B" version, with same hull and trunk cabin.
It all gets back to how much needs to be done (time and $) before casting off in search of those palm trees...........

Actually it’s that exaggerated tumbleholm many have that I’m not too crazy about more than the stern itself. My e25 also has a tiny stern compared to other 25’ footers and I believe I even have a slight amount of tumblehome as well.

 

[Christian Williams]

A good resource is forum moderator Guy Stevens, who works for hire and probably knows everything there is about the model. Private message by clicking his Username/Start Conversation.

E39 info for refit

Hello all, I’ve been a member for awhile but between being remote and perhaps not using the tools right, I’ve not discovered what I’ve searched for and haven’t posted. I’ll just cut to the chase: when I search on E39 (the site appears to use tags and keywords), I get nothing, like zero hits, or...

ericsonyachts.org

Ericson 39

Dependable and fast makes for a good value in a cruiserI recently attended the annual stat Catsup,Used Boat Notebook

sailingmagazine.net