Possible Buyer Beware Situation: 1985 E-35-3 Lewes, DE

[Drewm3i]

I recently looked at this boat: https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/102280

And witnessed some anomalies that I feel compelled to share and ask about:

-in the aft lazarette near the canoe stern, the TAFG was detached from the hull so much so on the starboard side that I could get my hand on it. The tabbing seemed in tact, but the grid itself was about 2-3" from the hull in this place.

-the engine was visibly crooked in the boat. Like completely twisted at least 5-10 degrees off center.

-The TAFG behind the engine on both sides was separated from the hull, but probably at least 5" on starboard.

-I noticed a small amount of broken/cracked tabbing near the salon table and the head bulkhead.

-The dorades had been simply covered with a teak plate (likely deck rot).

It seems the boat suffered structural damage from a likely hard grounding which broke the bonding of the grid which the owner of one year (who has $46,000 in the $30,000 boat) is attempting to hide and pass on to someone else.

I think this is sadly a buyer beware situation. Thoughts? Could any E-35-3 owners comment on these seeming anomalies?

Regards,
Drew

 

[Prairie Schooner]

What you're describing does sound bad and would discourage me from buying the boat.
Propeller shafts can be mounted slightly off center to allow removal past the rudder and the engine would need to be off center to connect. But your analysis could still be correct.
A small terminology quibble, the 35-3 transom is definitely not a canoe stern.
Jeff

 

[Nick J]

Do you have any pictures of what you saw? The engine is a non issue. It bothered me for a while, but when we finally pulled the boat out of the water, I realized the shaft is slightly off center to allow removal without dropping the rudder. It's also a bit of an optical illusion because the quarter birth wall is not parallel with the center line.

It would be really helpful to see pictures of the tabbing and TAFG because it's a little confusing in the aft section. There's a fiberglass pan on top of the TAFG and the pan does have gap in places.

The dorade fix is a fairly common one. Not good or bad, but it does keep the water out of a known area that leaks. The pictures show some water damage from above the windows which would indicate a dorade box leak.

 

[Loren Beach]

The description would make a prospective buyer really engage an excellent surveyor - and that's after an accepted offer that allowed for potential repairs. I would pass on it if I observed so many structural issues.
Also, the Vetus replacement diesel would give me pause; limited dealer network in my region.

(Back when we were shopping for a big (by our standard of comparison after ten years with a Niagara 26) boat, we passed on an otherwise-attractive Wauquiez 33, aka the Gladiateur 33.
While looking around the interior I lifted a removable sole panel and found some obvious fractures in the FRP reinforcing along the hull where the aft keel bolts were. I surmised that the boat had unrepaired damage from a nasty grounding. Nice design from a builder with a good reputation, otherwise.)

All in all, our EY Olson 34 has worked out really really well for us. Plus, Sean invented this web site where all the Way Cool Vikings gather!

 

[bsangs]

A small terminology quibble, the 35-3 transom is definitely not a canoe stern.
Jeff

Whew. Thanks for clearing that up, Jeff. I sat here for 15 minutes trying to figure out why I didn’t realize I had a canoe stern.

My engine is slightly off center for the shaft removal, but not nearly to the degree listed here. It’s not the original engine though.

 

[Christian Williams]

Drew, you still have the E38?

 

[Nick J]

A separated TAFG would definitely be a deal breaker especially at the top end of the price range. But it's important to make sure it's the TAFG. Here's some pics to highlight what I mean about it being confusing in the stern:

The engine bed (front of pic) is part of the TAFG, but you can see the pan overlapping the TAFG. The pan has a 1" gap between the hull.


I removed the section of the pan below the shaft:



I don't think the pan is structural. It just adds a nice finished service to the aft lockers.

As far as the engine alignment is concerned, you can kind of see how off centerline the quarter birth will is in the pic above when you compare it to the hole for the strut. It's a little easier to see in the layout drawing:

 

[Pete the Cat]

As far as the tabbing on the bulkhead, I am not familiar with the 35-3, but the "bulkheads" and furniture on my 32-200 are not structural and the tabbing is not meant to do anything but hold the bulkhead (it really is just a furniture divider meant to resemble a bulkhead) in place. Mine was broken when I got the boat and even my way below average surveyor recognized that it was not a problem. I am not trying to defend this boat, just pointing out that Ericson's TFG supplied nearly all the structural integrity of my boat. It appears to me that they wanted to make a bulletproof boat that was easier to assemble than they old "build it from bulkheads and floor timbers" of the past production conventions. I think they succeeded in that.

 

[Drewm3i]

Good stuff guys. You have me second-guessing myself.

I didn't get pictures because the owner was there and I simply didn't feel comfortable taking pictures of his boat with him there.

Anyway, what I saw in the aft lazarette did resemble a pan liner but it was completely unbonded from the hull in this starboard centerline section. It's hard for me to believe this would have been the design as I could flex it by lifting up with my hand and also push it down to the hull. While the fiberglass structure itself was intact, it seems the bond between the pan/liner and the hull failed in this spot, but I suppose only a 35-3 expert could confirm. I have had two E-38s and never saw anything like this, but who knows? A picture would be worth a thousand words.

I had thought the TAFG is a one-piece pan/liner system?

To clarify what I meant about the engine, it was not that it was off center like on some Sabres, but rather that it was crooked and angled 10 degrees or so towards port or starboard side (I forget which one exactly). I have never seen anything like that though on any boat.

The pan under the engine, particularly near the shaft log and seal, was many inches from the hull, probably 4 or 5" where viewed on starboard side, but it was dark down there so it's hard to know for sure. It seemed a little closer on port, maybe 3 or 4". I'm not entirely sure though. Anyone have any pictures of an E-35-3's apparent TAFG centerline/engine stringers behind the engine (with the engine installed)?

The dorade box definitely hadn't been fixed properly (replacing the deck core in that area), but I know that's pretty standard on an older Ericson.

 

[Drewm3i]

It would be really helpful to see pictures of the tabbing and TAFG because it's a little confusing in the aft section. There's a fiberglass pan on top of the TAFG and the pan does have gap in places.

Do you have pictures of yours? I hope it's much ado about nothing.

 

[Drewm3i]

Drew, you still have the E38?

Nope, I was going through a divorce at the time and had to sell her sadly. Getting back in the saddle soon though!

 

[Nick J]

The pics above are from my 35-3. Here's a few more:

Rudder tube:


Aft Thru hulls:

Here's an example of how the TAFG is tabbed to the hull. It's under the water tank on the starboard side:


If this tabbing was loose from the hull, I would be concerned, but I don't think this has been an issue with most Ericsons. In addition to the tabbing, I think there's a bedding compound between the hull and the TAFG so it's generally well constructed. I can see how a perspective buyer could look at the pan in the 35-3 and be concerned with the gaps between the hull and pan. Even a previous Ericson owner with a model that didn't have the pan could look at it and think there's a problem. Without looking at the boat in question, it's tough to tell, but I thought it would be a good idea to highlight the differences in construction between the 35-3 and some of the other boats.

 

[peaman]

The gaps between liner and hull in the first two pictures above are very similar to those in my 1987 32-3 in those same areas.

 

[Drewm3i]

The pics above are from my 35-3. Here's a few more:

Rudder tube:
View attachment 50301

Aft Thru hulls:View attachment 50302

Here's an example of how the TAFG is tabbed to the hull. It's under the water tank on the starboard side:
View attachment 50303

If this tabbing was loose from the hull, I would be concerned, but I don't think this has been an issue with most Ericsons. In addition to the tabbing, I think there's a bedding compound between the hull and the TAFG so it's generally well constructed. I can see how a perspective buyer could look at the pan in the 35-3 and be concerned with the gaps between the hull and pan. Even a previous Ericson owner with a model that didn't have the pan could look at it and think there's a problem. Without looking at the boat in question, it's tough to tell, but I thought it would be a good idea to highlight the differences in construction between the 35-3 and some of the other boats.

Thanks for sharing these. After looking closer, I think this boat's pan is as it should be. The only thing I'm still a bit concerned about is the engine pan/liner area. Maybe I can get some pictures. Argh, wish I would've taken some anyway.