Survey Results [1989 E38-200]

[Jim Picerno]

Greetings. I'm the"new kid on the block". as I've just become a member. I've recently had a survey done on an 1989 38-200. I've yet to receive to full survey report, but I thought I'd post a few pictures of items that stood out for meI during the survey. Firstly there is some minor cracking/separation between the keel stub, and keel. Is this the proverbial "Eriscon smile? An issue caused by improper adhesive application? Btw, the surveyor I engaged didn't think it was a big deal. Second is a cosmetic issue. Apparently there was some leaking from the companionway cover (turtle?), and the hatch just forward of it. There was also some leaking from the fixed portlights. This resulted in staining of the fascia around both fixed portlights (towards the stern). According to the broker all these items were rebedded and sealed by the seller. Assuming this is true, I'm left with a cosmetic issue I'm not sure how to tackle. Any and all comments would be appreciated.

 

[Christian Williams]

The discoloration means leaks, which have to be located and fixed. All 40-year-old boats have probably had their portlights re-bedded at some point, or need to. It's just age.

The forum has many threads and descriptions to guide you in the repair, when the time comes. The staining is just cosmetic, but making it look good again is a challenge. There are workarounds. Let's hope there isn't a lot of such cosmetic damage, because the beauty of an Ericson interior is one of its best attributes.

Replacing Fixed Ports (Windows): https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/replacing-fixed-windows-research-master-thread.9603/
Replacing gaskets on Fixed Ports (Windows): https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/thread...main-large-windows-ports-master-thread.13578/

The keel joint is just caulk failure, if the surveyor shrugged. By the way, there's a proverbial "Catalina smile" but no proverbial Ericson smile . It's routine for a boatyard to fill and fair the gap when repainting the bottom.

 

[Kenneth K]

A portlight leak would normally show up as damage below and near the perimeter of the portlight. Staining like your picture shows looks to me more an indication of something leaking up on deck and running down along the headliner.


Could be that it's from the leaking hatch you identified, or it could be from other deck hardware.

 

[Jim Picerno]

The discoloration means leaks, which have to be located and fixed. All 40-year-old boats have probably had their portlights re-bedded at some point, or need to. It's just age.

The forum has many threads and descriptions to guide you in the repair, when the time comes. The staining is just cosmetic, but making it look good again is a challenge. There are workarounds. Let's hope there isn't a lot of such cosmetic damage, because the beauty of an Ericson interior is one of its best attributes.

Replacing Fixed Ports (Windows): https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/replacing-fixed-windows-research-master-thread.9603/
Replacing gaskets on Fixed Ports (Windows): https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/thread...main-large-windows-ports-master-thread.13578/

The keel joint is just caulk failure, if the surveyor shrugged. By the way, there's a proverbial "Catalina smile" but no proverbial Ericson smile . It's routine for a boatyard to fill and fair the gap when repainting the bottom.

Thanks Christian for your comments. Glad to hear there are no Ericson "smiles", at least not of that variety. It's a shame that the seller was not attentive to this water damage problem, as the rest of the interior (barring the white upholstery) is in very good condition.

 

[Christian Williams]

Looks like the cabin sole is in good shape. That's expensive to replace.

Were there other concerns? Yours are few for most potential buyers.

If the boat has a public listing, you might post that. Usually draws knowledgeable comments.

 

[Jim Picerno]

A portlight leak would normally show up as damage below and near the perimeter of the portlight. Staining like your picture shows looks to me more an indication of something leaking up on deck and running down along the headliner.
View attachment 51646

Could be that it's from the leaking hatch you identified, or it could be from other deck hardware.

Thanks Kenneth. I agree water generally is not running uphill. I can only hope that the hatch and "turtle" which were the likely culprits were repaired correctly. And I'm still looking for some ideas on repairing this.

 

[Jim Picerno]

Looks like the cabin sole is in good shape. That's expensive to replace.

Were there other concerns? Yours are few for most potential buyers.

If the boat has a public listing, you might post that. Usually draws knowledgeable comments.

Good idea. Here's the listing.

Prana 38ft 1989 Ericson Yacht For Sale Prestige Yacht Sales

Prestige Yacht Sales provides expert and personable yacht sales and services world wide Search our huge database of yachts for sale now Prana is a 1989 Ericson 38ft 38 200 This Cruisers for sale is located in Groton Connecticut Call today

www.prestigeyachtsales.net

 

[Loren Beach]

Welcome to the Ericson owners site. I hope you enjoy the deep deep archives here on systems and maintenance.
It's likely that some of the same crew built out my boat in late '88, and they did an excellent job of sealing down all the deck and cabin hardware. That said, sealants do have a life. When we removed all (!) of our ports, hatches, tracks, cleats, and stanchions for a major repaint and refit in 2021, I found several places where the original 5200 sealant was about to allow moisture to get totally under it.
Better news: there was proof that the guys at EY had countersunk all the holes for high stress parts like the bolts for the genoa tacks -- this allowed much better sealant adhesion.
As part of our project I over drilled/epoxy filled/redrilled 100% of the holes so that no coring will ever be affected even if some future day water might sneak in around a bolt. Any boat over 25 or 30 years old needs this, but few owners seem to care until rot ruins parts of the core or water stains the $$$ teak on the inside of the cabin.
Regards,
Loren

 

[Loren Beach]

69K....? Wow. If the description is accurate, that is, IMHO, like getting it for half price. Believe me, I know what an Awlgrip paint job costs.
When you look at ours after it was painted, that's two color coats and three clear coats. The finished coats were all buffed. Note that current Awlgrip formulation is repairable, unlike their products 2 decades ago. Tough finish. Shiny as all heck.

Some pix of the process in my blog entries. https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/authors/loren-beach.28/

 

[Kenneth K]

Thanks Kenneth. I agree water generally is not running uphill. I can only hope that the hatch and "turtle" which were the likely culprits were repaired correctly. And I'm still looking for some ideas on repairing this.

Glad we agree on gravity's general effect on water. My point is that if the hatch and turtle were not the culprits, and that is what the PO "fixed," then the boat likely still has leaking hardware and potential damage to the wood coring in the cabin top. You can check for such core damage by "tapping" the affected areas and measuring with a moisture meter.

 

[Christian Williams]

No wonder you have few questions. Lovely specimen!

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Ayuh, she's a beauty, Jim.

I would note that it is a CNG galley stove and natural gas can be hard to come by. We recently swapped the CNG kit out of our E35-3 for a new propane stove, plumbing, and tanks. A new stove alone can run you $1500, with another ~$500 worth of hoses, regulators, safety solenoids, etc.

What's the deal with the cardboard and green tape at the nav station? I admit, I didn't watch the video, so perhaps the answer is in there.

When we bought our boat the sails seemed crispy and we thought we could address that several years into ownership. But in fact, they were blown out of shape and the jib was UV damaged. So, I wouldn't use mere crispiness as a metric.

Did they just never use the engine or was it rebuilt at some point? That's really low hours for a 1989.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from purchase. I'm just suggesting there might be other expenses down the road sooner than later.

Keel:
In the link below Eric details all the work he went in rebedding his keel. In the end, if I read him right, he decided it wasn't necessary. If you're an inveterate data diver, there's good information in his blog that will help peel away the veil.

E38-200 - Rebedding the Keel

Preamble I had heard of my vintage of E38's (1986) having poor keel-stub adhesion due to the factory not removing the mold release wax before fitting the keel. For this reason, and also having experienced crevice corrosion in my previous boat, I...

ericsonyachts.org

In a complete redo of Kismet's bottom last winter, we just filled in the smile and faired everything out. It still looks great after a season in the water, properly solemn with no smile.

Our boat lived in Stonington, CT in its prior life, a mere 15 miles from Groton. Would you use the boat in Florida?

The gray Y-valve control next to the toilet makes me wonder if they installed a freshwater flush option. A very nice touch, if so.

@peaman did a really sweet refurbish of the portlight side panel on his E32. I don't have the link at hand, but perhaps he can chime in with that.

New electronics in 2024? Niiiiice.

Good luck!
Jeff

 

[peaman]

@peaman did a really sweet refurbish of the portlight side panel on his E32. I don't have the link at hand, but perhaps he can chime in with that.

Thanks for this. On "Prana", I don't see serious rot like I had, but the water damage is pretty bad. As @Kenneth K pointed out, the damage above the lights is especially concerning since it is on both port and starboard, and there are no clear reasons, like poorly executed hardware installations. Questions should be asked. An opening port light on the starboard side with very dark wood above looks to be in line with the mast, which could mean serious work required to fix whatever leak cased that. In my own case, the water damage was all clearly caused by leaks at the port lights, so the repair, except for the rotted area, was fairly straightforward, to the extent that I am happy with the result, but the damage will always be evident. The wood paneling is about 1/8" thick, with 1/32" veneer. The water stain is all of the way through the veneer, so it cannot be sanded out completely, but cleaning and careful sanding will improve the appearance, and then varnish will help to blend the damaged areas to some extent. But the main issue is determining that whatever leaks caused the damage have been fixed. It is otherwise a great looking boat.

 

[Jim Picerno]

Thanks all for the thoughtful remarks. I went ahead and closed on the boat today. Expect many possibly dumb questions in the future. Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Jim Picerno]

Thanks for this. On "Prana", I don't see serious rot like I had, but the water damage is pretty bad. As @Kenneth K pointed out, the damage above the lights is especially concerning since it is on both port and starboard, and there are no clear reasons, like poorly executed hardware installations. Questions should be asked. An opening port light on the starboard side with very dark wood above looks to be in line with the mast, which could mean serious work required to fix whatever leak cased that. In my own case, the water damage was all clearly caused by leaks at the port lights, so the repair, except for the rotted area, was fairly straightforward, to the extent that I am happy with the result, but the damage will always be evident. The wood paneling is about 1/8" thick, with 1/32" veneer. The water stain is all of the way through the veneer, so it cannot be sanded out completely, but cleaning and careful sanding will improve the appearance, and then varnish will help to blend the damaged areas to some extent. But the main issue is determining that whatever leaks caused the damage have been fixed. It is otherwise a great looking boat.

Thanks Peaman. I got more information about this damage which I may have failed to mention. The main hatch and both of the fixed portlights were leaking, but according to the seller all were rebedded, and/or repaired. The boat was listed in August, and according to the broker, he was on the boat several times when it was raining, and there was no evidence of further leaking. I'm taking both comments with a grain of salt.

 

[windblown]

Thanks all for the thoughtful remarks. I went ahead and closed on the boat today. Expect many possibly dumb questions in the future. Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.

Congratulations, Jim! Welcome to the Viking clan. Now that you’ve made the leap, you can look forward many hours of great sailing, and as many hours of great learning from the community here. These are great boats, and great people.

 

[Christian Williams]

Well, if they were re-bedded that may be all there is to it. You can tell by removing the inner aluminum frame on the fixed ports, there ought to be evidence of new caulk or sealant. The hatches often just need a new gasket, usually still available to buy, or dogs, which often leak when their rubber seals get old.

Regarding cosmetics of the teak around the fixed ports, sometimes curtains cover most of it. Another alternative to replacing the veneer, which is a delicate and time-consuming job, is just to fair and paint it. Although that sounds wrong, it actually looks quite suitable, as our boats tend a bit dark belowdecks anyhow result of traditional veneers.

Congrats on the boat. Click to enlarge.

...

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Thanks all for the thoughtful remarks. I went ahead and closed on the boat today. Expect many possibly dumb questions in the future. Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.

Congratulations Jim!! Wishing you many happy voyages!

 

[Bolo]

Welcome Jim! Add your location so we know where you sail. Also you can find Ericsons on YouTube!

Christian Williams

Christian Williams

Christian Williams' videos span his sailing experience from childhood, through early multihull Bermuda races to singlehanded voyages to Hawaii in his 70s. A former Washington Post editor and television producer, he lives in Los Angeles and currently sails a 1984 Ericson 38. This free channel...

youtube.com

My “Sailing Vesper”

Sailing Vesper: On the Chesapeake Bay

The adventures of retirees Bob & Beverly, sailing and maintaining their 1987 Ericson 32 foot sailboat "Vesper" on the Chesapeake Bay and proving that you don't need to cross oceans to have fun and get into a bit of trouble. "Vesper" sails out of Back Creek in Annapolis, Maryland and besides day...

youtube.com

 

[Jim Picerno]

Well, if they were re-bedded that may be all there is to it. You can tell by removing the inner aluminum frame on the fixed ports, there ought to be evidence of new caulk or sealant. The hatches often just need a new gasket, usually still available to buy, or dogs, which often leak when their rubber seals get old.

Regarding cosmetics of the teak around the fixed ports, sometimes curtains cover most of it. Another alternative to replacing the veneer, which is a delicate and time-consuming job, is just to fair and paint it. Although that sounds wrong, it actually looks quite suitable, as our boats tend a bit dark belowdecks anyhow result of traditional veneers.

Congrats on the boat. Click to enlarge.

View attachment 51655...View attachment 51656

Very clever Mr. Williams. Looks great. Wishing you and yours a Happy Thanksgiving.