mast leak

[HerbertFriedman]

I have a leak in my Kenyon mast in my 87E34 and need some advice on how to seal it. The leak comes though the deck penetration and winds up on the table and cockpit sole. The mast is keel stepped and has a rubber boot installed when the mast was stepped. It is a rubber cylinder, hose clamped to the mast just above the deck entrance, the flipped over and hose clamped to the deck fitting, see photo. Water hose showed no leak there. Water does enter the inside of the mast from openings at the top and winds up in the bilge, no problem.

A few years ago, noticed water coming into the cabin from the outside of the mast where the mast enters the deck and traced the leak to the seal between the mast and the aluminum filler piece inserted by Kenyon to seal up the rectangular goove in the rear of the mast below the gooseneck. Above the gooseneck is the sail track but the aluminum piece is needed to fill up of the groove below the gooseneck. See the photo where I applied white sealant in the space between the aluminum filler and the black mast. This worked for several years, but now the leak has returned with a vengance.

No leak in the mast below the gooseneck but a leak in the small gap between the sail track and the mast, up as far as I could reach but maybe all the up to the the mast. Sealing that gap all the up the mast would require unstopping the mast. Other alternatives are to reach up the mast from inside the cabin up to the penetration in the cabin top and seal the gap between the aluminum filler all the down to the mast bottom as I did previously. Any water leaking behind aluminum filler would wind up in the bilge. But there may be wedges in the cabin-mast penetration blocking me. Another fix would be to remove the gooseneck and seal the aluminum filler piece at the junction of the filler and the mast track. But removing the gooseneck may be difficult, 35 year old stainless steel screws in an aluminum mast, corrosion, etc.

Any ideas welcomed.

 

[Loren Beach]

It looks like the track part of your Kenyon extrusion is different than ours. That filler piece does look like a leak possibility, and I have no experience with re-sealing that part.
The rest of the deck pass-thru may be like ours, tho. There are photos in my blog entries:

O34 - Mast Wedges & Gaiter, (Kenyon spar, O-34)

Back a couple decades ago, I replaced the factory hardwood wedges. They had put in four, with longer ones on each side. There were "corner" areas with no wedging/support, and it seemed like there should be more continuous support all the way...

ericsonyachts.org

O34 - Mast Opening and SS "Collar"

Here is the cleaned up and polished SS mast plate (aka "collar")carrying the turning blocks. I have over-drilled and epoxied and re-drilled all holes. Behind this is the small rectangular opening for the SS tang that drops thru & connects, on the...

ericsonyachts.org

Good luck in keeping that persistant water out.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

It looks like the track part of your Kenyon extrusion is different than ours. That filler piece does look like a leak possibility, and I have no experience with re-sealing that part.
The rest of the deck pass-thru may be like ours, tho. There are photos in my blog entries:

O34 - Mast Wedges & Gaiter, (Kenyon spar, O-34)

Back a couple decades ago, I replaced the factory hardwood wedges. They had put in four, with longer ones on each side. There were "corner" areas with no wedging/support, and it seemed like there should be more continuous support all the way...

ericsonyachts.org

O34 - Mast Opening and SS "Collar"

Here is the cleaned up and polished SS mast plate (aka "collar")carrying the turning blocks. I have over-drilled and epoxied and re-drilled all holes. Behind this is the small rectangular opening for the SS tang that drops thru & connects, on the...

ericsonyachts.org

Good luck in keeping that persistant water out.

Yes, it looks like my Kenyon mast is totally different from yours, yours look rectangular with rounded corners and with no recess for the sail track and mine is definitely oval with a " rectangular" groove for the sail track and a filler piece below the gooseneck. The "gaiter" looks quite similar and is a foolproof way of sealing the deck penetration, with the exception of the filler piece.
Any tips on how to remove the gooseneck fitting??

 

[Christian Williams]

On my boat, there's a vertical pin on the gooseneck for easy removal. The fitting on the mast is just held to it by machine screws that come out easily. Or yours might be rivets, to be drilled out. (My gooseneck is custom reinforced, but the pin is standard)

...
Our Kenyon spars looks similar. Here're pictures of mine. I have no deck leaks, using a rubber seal under a protective Sunbrella gaiter.

......

I have heard of leaks at the mast collar bolts when caulk under the collar deteriorates.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Loren, according to the Kenyon brochure, see attached, your mast looks like the "high performance" cross section, nothing like mine.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

On my boat, there's a vertical pin on the gooseneck for easy removal. The fitting on the mast is just held to it by machine screws that come out easily. Or yours might be rivets, to be drilled out. (My gooseneck is custom reinforced, but the pin is standard)

View attachment 51740...
Our Kenyon spars looks similar. Here're pictures of mine. I have no deck leaks, using a rubber seal under a protective Sunbrella gaiter.

View attachment 51741...View attachment 51742...View attachment 51743

I have heard of leaks under the mast collar bolts when caulk under the collar deteriorates.

On my boat, there's a vertical pin on the gooseneck for easy removal. The fitting on the mast is just held to it by machine screws that come out easily. Or yours might be rivets, to be drilled out. (My gooseneck is custom reinforced, but the pin is standard)

View attachment 51740...
Our Kenyon spars looks similar. Here're pictures of mine. I have no deck leaks, using a rubber seal under a protective Sunbrella gaiter.

View attachment 51741...View attachment 51742...View attachment 51743

I have heard of leaks at the mast collar bolts when caulk under the collar deteriorates.

Yes, my mast looks similar to yours and the gaiter at the deck penetration is similar, no leaks there. But I cannot tell from your last photo if there is a filler piece in the extrusion groove below the gooseneck, if the groove goes all the way along the rear side of the mast, there needs to be a filler piece. Also, I am glad you think the screws holding the gooseneck to the mast come out easily, I hope mine do too. One question, do you thing the whole boom has to be removed? I was thinking to remove the pin holding the boom to the gooseneck fitting, sliding it back a little, then removing the screws holding the gooseneck fitting to the mast and then hoping the top of the filler piece is visible so I can caulk it, what do you think??

 

[Christian Williams]

You can take the pin out of the gooseneck and hang the forward end of the boom on a loop of the main halyard. The other end will be supported by the topping lift. You can do it with the mainsail slides still installed on the mast. The boom, when hung, will hug the mast and want to swing forward, but that can be arrested by temporary lines. Some padding on the boom prevents scratches where it will press against the mast.

That's the way I have taken my gooseneck off and on for repair, and for rerigging internal boom lines.

(I don't really understand the filler piece as a potential leak)

 

[HerbertFriedman]

You can take the pin out of the gooseneck and hang the forward end of the boom on a loop of the main halyard. The other end will be supported by the topping lift. You can do it with the mainsail slides still installed on the mast. The boom, when hung, will hug the mast and want to swing forward, but that can be arrested by temporary lines. Some padding on the boom prevents scratches where it will press against the mast.

That's the way I have taken my gooseneck off and on for repair, and for rerigging internal boom lines.

(I don't really understand the filler piece as a potential leak)

Thanks for the advice on supporting the boom in preparation for removing the gooseneck, I will try that as soon as this rain stops.

As far as the leak from the gap of the aluminum filler piece, I agree I did not understand it either. But when hunting for the mast leak a few years ago, I stumbled on the source which was the gap between the filler piece and the mast, on both sides of the filler piece. I cleaned that gap with acetone and then taped both the mast and filler piece to reduce the clean up effort. I stuffed 3M 4200 into the gap using a paint scraper to force as much sealant into the gap as possible, see my photo of the white sealant in the two gaps from the gooseneck down to the deck entrance, it sealed the leak for several years. When the leak reappeared, I hosed that area again and found no leak but when I hosed the gap above the gooseneck, between the sail track and the mast, voila, water dripped inside the cabin where the mast enters the deck.

As I said, I dont know how far up that leak goes and short of climbing the mast or unstepping it, I will try to seal the filler piece by removing the gooseneck. If I were to unstep the mast, maybe I could slide the filler piece out the bottom of the mast and seal it properly.
Again, I cannot see the filler piece in your mast from your photo, maybe the filler piece and the mast are the same color, is there a filler piece below the gooseneck?

 

[peaman]

(I don't really understand the filler piece as a potential leak)

I agree with this. That the leak falls on your table as well as sole, I would be looking at the deck penetration itself. The photo of your mast boot is not really clear, but it looks like there could be issues with the boot or with the deck ring. The mast should be sealed to the deck ring with mast boot tape, and then the mast boot will protect the tape from sun degradation. Leaking under or through the deck ring would require rebedding of that plate.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

I agree with this. That the leak falls on your table as well as sole, I would be looking at the deck penetration itself. The photo of your mast boot is not really clear, but it looks like there could be issues with the boot or with the deck ring. The mast should be sealed to the deck ring with mast boot tape, and then the mast boot will protect the tape from sun degradation. Leaking under or through the deck ring would require rebedding of that plate.

I certainly agree that the mast penetration in the deck is the likely source of the leak but I did hose that area down several times and no leak was seen. The boot or gaiter certainly does not look as neat as Christain's but it is water tight and, not shown, is a sunbrella wrap to protect the boot from the UV sun.

And a few years ago when I first noticed the leak, sealing the sides of the filler piece was confirmed as the source (using a hose) and sealing it did stop the leak for several years. With this new leak, again the boot area and my filler gap seal both show no leak but spraying the narrow gap between the sail track and the mast above the gooseneck definitely shows an immediate leak.

My thought is that water from that gap finds it way behind the filler piece, past the boot at the deck penetration and when inside the cabin leaks around the filler piece and onto the dining table and then onto the cockpit sole, damaging the wood there. Sure, some water from behind the filler piece does drip down into the bilge but some does not, at least that is my thought, any other possible thoughts welcome.

I plan to remove the wood trim from inside the cabin roof (mast to deck penetration) and look up to where the mast penetrates the cabin roof to see if I can seal the filler gap as I did before but I am afraid that wedges around the mast will limit my access. If that fails, then I hope I can get to the top of the filler piece (where it probably meets the bottom of the sail track) once the gooseneck clamp is removed. If that approach fails, I am afraid I will have to pull the mast and see if I can seal that "blessed" filler piece somehow, uggh!

Again, help from this agust group would be appreciated.

 

[Christian Williams]

I plan to remove the wood trim from inside the cabin roof (mast to deck penetration) and look up to where the mast penetrates the cabin roof

Yes.

 

[Loren Beach]

I plan to remove the wood trim from inside the cabin roof (mast to deck penetration) and look up to where the mast penetrates the cabin roof

Yes.

There is a lot of cyclical loading on those turning blocks shackled to the ss collar. Even tho the collar will seem quite "solid" when you push on it by hand, the ancient sealant around the bolts will likely have given up. When I removed that ss part I found that the inside nuts and thick washers were recessed into a plywood plate that surrounded the mast penetration, and the plywood was damp. I hogged out every hole and backfilled with thickened epoxy and then re-drilled them all. I did have to carefully withdraw the vinyl headliner a bit on either side, also. You can see the top view in my second blog link in reply #2.

I was lucky; another sister ship owner found rot in that plywood part and replaced it from the inside. A tedious job. My opinion is that this major SS part needs to be epoxy potted now, on all the 80's Ericson's. After all, it has been there over three decades, quietly showing up for work everyday and never complaining....

Attached is a picture (link) of ours from the inside. Note that I repaired the broken-we-bought-the-boat teak trim ring, many years ago, and then split it so that it can be removed when the mast is stepped. I got the two halves to line up by putting a pin in each -hidden- face that slides into a hole in the other face, froward and aft. https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/media/inside-all-tackle-jpeg.28472/

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Went to the boat this afternoon and again flooded the base of the mast where it penetrates the cabin roof and again found no leak, so I do not think that either the rubber boot or the ss collar are my leak point, at least for now. I did repeat flooding the small gap between the sail track and the mast just above the gooseneck for about 6 inches and again no leak, The I flooded that gap higher up as far as I could reach and again water dripped down the mast onto the table in the cabin, so that gap is certainly part of my leak problem.

I did remove the teak trim boards surrounding the mast at the cabin roof and there is no way I can seal the gap between the filler piece and the mast up to the point where the mast penetrates the cabin roof. There is a hard rubber "something" surrounding the mast limiting access further up the mast, something in place of normal wooden wedges.

So in desperation, I did caulk the gap between the sail track and the mast as high as I could reach, about 2 feet and we will see if that stops the leak. If not, a few options, (1) go up the mast with a bosun's chair and caulk that gap all the way to the top of the mast, (2) move the boom back by pulling the pin, then remove the gooseneck clamp on the mast (the screws holding that clamp seem to loosen OK}, and try to caulk the top of the filler piece, (3) pull the mast and seal up everything. Will let you all know.

 

[bigd14]

Not sure if this will add much to the conversation but this is the base of my Kenyon mast showing the cross section of the wiring channel filler plate. It’s off a 30+ deck stepped mast so probably a different profile but the arrangement looks similar. Looks difficult for water to get in if you ask me.