New chainplate metal grain?

klb67pgh

Member III
I pulled the maybe original chainplates on my E25 to check them. I discovered the starboard one was bent towards the bow and decided to replace them. No corrosion, no rot, and no leaks - so that's all good news. I ordered 316L stainless online and had a machinist put holes where they needed to go for a reasonable price. Now I am sanding and polishing the new chainplates. Probably not to a mirror finish, but we'll see.

As I'm sanding, I had a new thought. Is there a directional grain to metal? Does it matter for chainplates? Do you have any thoughts about the metal grain based on the pic (sanded to 150 as shown)? Is it possible for grain to be the wrong way (across v. lengthwise) for chainplates? I am not sure if this metal was bar stock or cut from a sheet, but I can probably find out.

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
No answer have I, directly, but I do know that parts destined for super strength applications are forged. This does "align" the molecules, if I understand the process. :geek:

Sailboat chainplates, except for the lightest weight (and thinest profile) parts for flat out racing boats, are routinely cut from SS flat stock or bar stock.

It's good to bring the finished part up to a mirror polish, as well. This reduces corrosion and allows easier inspection as time goes by.
BTW... keep sanding. Once you work up to 1500 or 3000 grit, then it's on to the polish wheel with several grades of waxy rouge. I found it to be kind of a hypnotic sort of fun, when all of our SS deck parts were off the boat. It's really gratifying to see the result as you keep going and the surface keeps getting more and more shiny and mirror-ish. :)
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
There is definitely a grain direction. I can't tell from your photos but it looks to the parallel to the length. Have you checked your old chain plates for the grain direction?? If you bought these as "bar" stock, the grain will typically be along the length. On an E25., It may not make much difference the thickness looks generous enough like on my old E27. More important about the finish. Be sure to remove any iron left over from machining or it will rust in those areas. Stainless steel products (from reputable sources) are passivated to remove any iron from tooling. I think this is done with an acid and you can do this at home with citric acid or other.
 

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
caveat 1: I'm not a metallurgist. However, I trained as a silversmith and had a long career designing metal consumer products (flatware, etc.) and taught industrial design shop (among other subjects) for students at the college level.
caveat 2: What follows is for ferrous and non-ferrous metals commonly used for consumer products like flatware and boats; steels, copper, brass, bronze, etc. More exotic metals like titanium, etc are generally similar, but have unique characteristics. Also, of the commonly used non-ferrous metals, aluminum is kind of it's own quirky thing and doesn't adhere to all the rules as exactly as copper, silver, etc typically do. Further complicating things is a dizzying number of metal alloys. What follows is grossly simplified.


Metal, in general, does not have grain like a tree. It's basic structure is crystalline, not cellular. Metal doesn't grow toward the light and does not need to transfer water and chemicals. When it's poured from its molten state into a form it cools into crystals. Two ways of making product from those rough billets are forging and rolling. Forging can be free-form, with a hammer and anvil. Or, it can be in dies, like making a combination wrench. Rolling creates sheets of various sizes and configurations that is then manipulated in different ways. The steel for your chain-plates was undoubtedly created this way. Below is an illustration from a pretty good video, though the presenter's accent is a bit hard to sift through.

metal compression.jpg

link: Strain Hardening - Strain Hardening - Material Technology

When a hot blank is slammed between a forge die to make a wrench there is a direction to the crystalline elongation that travels out. Likewise, when rolled through a mill, there is a kind of direction created, grain if you will. Grant's observation on your part is right on. For our purposes as boat owners, I don't think this grain matters. In products like ICBMs and America's Cup boats, where optimum performance is important, that structure can be analyzed and used for the best. For our kinds of applications I think the general solution is to just over-build it.

To relax the stiffness created by compression, the metal can be heated and cooled, annealing. The cycle of that depends on the metal. And, when ordering metal stock you can often specify dead soft, half-hard, hard. Given a choice, I would not order full-hard for something like chain-plates. I'd feel comfortable with soft or maybe half-hard. That's more an intuitive choice, rather than scientific. I could be wrong.

Tool steels are a different animal. Those alloys can be given specific strength characteristics by applying different heating and cooling cycles, hardening and tempering.

Loren's comments about polishing align with my experience. Polishing compounds are just finer abrasives, working down to smaller and smaller scratches that can ultimately only be seen on the microscopic level. The smaller the scratches, the less ingress for oxidizers. The only enhancement I'd make to what he writes is to say that rouge is generally considered the last, finest cut. Prior to that I'd start with a cut-down followed by an intermediate, then rouge. There are compounds optimized for specific metals. A good abrasive supplier will be able recommend the best, or you can buy kits. Use separate wheels for each compound and clean the piece well in between each 'grit'. Otherwise you'll contaminate the finer compounds with the coarser. Don't go too crazy though. It's a rabbit hole.

(I'm sorry if I got too pedantic. It's hard to turn off 'teacher' mode. I welcome correction from people who have a knowledge base greater than my college sophomore level.)

Cheers,
Jeff
 
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Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I discovered the starboard one was bent towards the bow and decided to replace them.
Many chainplates have a deliberate bend to them so the upwards end is in line with the shroud or stay it anchors.

Are you sure the chainplates are meant to be straight?

Also, I tried several ways of polishing my SS stanchion bases. Ultimately, this was the ticket:
Screenshot_20250203-115446_Chrome~2.png

Harbor freight tools are get-what-you-pay-for, but a buffer is a very low load tool, so I couldn't see paying up for one. Just make sure to change to a new polishing wheel every time you go to a finer-grit polishing compound.
 

klb67pgh

Member III
Here's a so so pic of one of the original chainplates. I don't really notice a grain. It is likely 304 stainless, from bar stock, and was never polished. Note the diagonal scratch is just that, a really light scratch, I assume added to confirm the desired angle to the side deck before the bulkhead holes were drilled. I see no evidence of a crack there.

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I suppose it is possible that only the starboard side had a bend in it, and I will find out when I put the mast up in the spring if my new plate needs a corresponding bend.


I think pedantry is generally encouraged on this site. And it appears as pure brilliance to those of us who are learning something new. :geek:
 

gabriel

Live free or die hard
Note the diagonal scratch is just that, a really light scratch, I assume added to confirm the desired angle to the side deck before the bulkhead holes were drilled. I see no evidence of a crack there.

my chainplates also had the same deck mark, I thought it was from either sealant or someone cutting tape with a razor previously. I wouldn’t think that Ericson was so careful placing the chain plates, the ones on my boat were we’re a little screwy.

the Ericson 25 chain plates are flat. That bend is most likely from the rigging becoming snagged while stepping the mast.

The chain plates on this boat are massive compared to other 25 footers I’ve seen, I wouldn’t worry too much about them and I would worry zero if they were new. Your shrouds would break long before those monsters would.
 

klb67pgh

Member III
my chainplates also had the same deck mark, I thought it was from either sealant or someone cutting tape with a razor previously. I wouldn’t think that Ericson was so careful placing the chain plates, the ones on my boat were we’re a little screwy.

the Ericson 25 chain plates are flat. That bend is most likely from the rigging becoming snagged while stepping the mast.

The chain plates on this boat are massive compared to other 25 footers I’ve seen, I wouldn’t worry too much about them and I would worry zero if they were new. Your shrouds would break long before those monsters would.
Thanks for the info on your E25. That's helpful, and gives me some peace of mind.I won't be needing to add a bend come spring. I do wonder how it happened. I thought perhaps someone tied a springline around the chain plate at a dock and a big wave suddenly jerked the boat to aft. But a snagged stay on a mast raise if the captain wasn't paying attention could have done it.
 

gabriel

Live free or die hard
Thanks for the info on your E25. That's helpful, and gives me some peace of mind.I won't be needing to add a bend come spring. I do wonder how it happened. I thought perhaps someone tied a springline around the chain plate at a dock and a big wave suddenly jerked the boat to aft. But a snagged stay on a mast raise if the captain wasn't paying attention could have done it.
It could happen when after taking the mast off the crutch while bringing to forward to the ‘raising position’, though I admit, the force required for this would be tremendous so I have a some doubt.

it took me a good while to remember to clear my shrouds before raising, and in the process, I went through my inherited stock of navitech turnbuckles. At about 150 a piece, I finally changed my rigging using standard stuff.
 
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