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Vendors, General Insurance options for older boats?
- Thread starter Kif
- Start date
All general vendors of boating equipment.
California is such a huge market, that I am not sure what to suggest. I do know that our broker, https://boatinsurance.net/ (Boat Insurance Agency) does not mind referrals from me. Worth it to give 'em a call.
We placed our insurance thru this broker (insuring with Travelers) several years ago, since we found that Geico, aka BoatUS, was mistreating us in several ways.
Worth mentioning also is that just before making this change we had a new survey done. While our boat was newer than yours, we also had a recent Betamarine engine installed, and could show that our boat was/is in excellent condition.
Also perhaps worth reiterating again
is that while we talk about our present boat model and year, what we are really insuring is the money we have put into the boat. If lost due to fire or sinking, that money is what I want back so that we can buy (or restore) a replacement that is equivalent to the present vessel.
Oddly enough, the value we assign and insure for is also significant if our boat is ever damaged. The insurance company will, after all, total it even if the damage is easy to repair BUT will cost more than the boat's insured value.
I am watching the repair $ vs insured value drama play out this month for a recent local starting-line collision that will require 30 to 50K in repairs (at boat yard rates) for each boat, One had it's bow pushed in about a half a foot and the other has a good sized hole in the hull. No injuries luckily. Both are well built "higher end" boats from good builders, Rumor is (and only one of several rumors) that at least one of the boats may get "totaled" and the owner will make a decision whether to buy it back and repair it.
So, yeah, absolutely gotta have liability insurance, and the option is always there to self-insure for hull/rig damage. I'm cautious, so have always had agreed-value coverage, from our first Ranger 20 to our present Olson 34.
No claims either... I try never to think about 40 years of premiums paid out!
We placed our insurance thru this broker (insuring with Travelers) several years ago, since we found that Geico, aka BoatUS, was mistreating us in several ways.
Worth mentioning also is that just before making this change we had a new survey done. While our boat was newer than yours, we also had a recent Betamarine engine installed, and could show that our boat was/is in excellent condition.
Also perhaps worth reiterating again
is that while we talk about our present boat model and year, what we are really insuring is the money we have put into the boat. If lost due to fire or sinking, that money is what I want back so that we can buy (or restore) a replacement that is equivalent to the present vessel.Oddly enough, the value we assign and insure for is also significant if our boat is ever damaged. The insurance company will, after all, total it even if the damage is easy to repair BUT will cost more than the boat's insured value.
I am watching the repair $ vs insured value drama play out this month for a recent local starting-line collision that will require 30 to 50K in repairs (at boat yard rates) for each boat, One had it's bow pushed in about a half a foot and the other has a good sized hole in the hull. No injuries luckily. Both are well built "higher end" boats from good builders, Rumor is (and only one of several rumors) that at least one of the boats may get "totaled" and the owner will make a decision whether to buy it back and repair it.
So, yeah, absolutely gotta have liability insurance, and the option is always there to self-insure for hull/rig damage. I'm cautious, so have always had agreed-value coverage, from our first Ranger 20 to our present Olson 34.
No claims either... I try never to think about 40 years of premiums paid out!
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Pete the Cat
Sustaining Member
I think with some very old boats not in areas where there is a hurricane threat, I would consider just having solid liability insurance because, unless you have an agreed value of these older boats comprehensive coverage seems like a dubious deal considering the risk. Liability only is dirt cheap. I also feel that boat rates have skyrocketed and the underwriting has become obnoxious because the big companies (particularly Geico Boat US) lost a lot in recent years in the Florida market and are wildly raising rates and underwriting requirements. Progressive has had substantial increases recently as well. And, as you know, a lot of boats stay in their slip or on the mooring 95% of the time.
Prairie Schooner
Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
There are a couple threads that might have some additional leads. The first link here should go to some specific contacts I made from the 2023 Newport (RI) Boat Show, post #53. The thread includes suggestions from others as well.
ericsonyachts.org
Some other options:
ericsonyachts.org
We're with Progressive now, but are thinking of changing. Our surveyor told us they are really stingy if you need to make a claim. On the other hand, a friend has made two separate large claims with Progressive (collision from uninsured PWC while anchored and lightning strike) and got major repairs done. Though he had to do some wrestling with them. He is a mostly full-timer with a 38' early 2000's sailing catamaran which he takes from New England to the Caribbean every year.
Ray's advice about liability only is good.
Good luck!
Jeff
Stunned by insurance increase!
Speaking of boats at or near 50 years in age, the huge surge in sailboat sales happened as a result of the oil embargo and fuel shortages in 1973-74. Seems like there's gotta be an agent that can shop around for a policy for your boat. (and a lot of others, as well.) My experiences are likely...
Some other options:
Insurance on older models
Hey y’all, I recent became the owner of a 1978 ericson 27. Is there an insurance company that covers sailboats that are over 40 years old? Geico will not give a policy to a boat that old. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you. Peter
We're with Progressive now, but are thinking of changing. Our surveyor told us they are really stingy if you need to make a claim. On the other hand, a friend has made two separate large claims with Progressive (collision from uninsured PWC while anchored and lightning strike) and got major repairs done. Though he had to do some wrestling with them. He is a mostly full-timer with a 38' early 2000's sailing catamaran which he takes from New England to the Caribbean every year.
Ray's advice about liability only is good.
Good luck!
Jeff
Just went through these guys to get a new policy from Markel after Geico canceled on me. In fairness Geico gave me warning and required a new survey, but I didn’t like their games with reducing the agreed upon value without my agreement!
Markel didn’t require a survey, but doesn’t cover rigging failures unless I get a rig survey. I have replaced all standing rigging including chain plates so I am not worried about that. Rigging damage from collisions or other accidents is still covered. Cheaper than Geico!
AdventurousAnton
Member III
We have Markel (through USAA) for our "big boat" Zissou we live on (Sea Ranger 52 Trawler), and they've been good, but VERY picky about surveys and the work performed afterward.
When we bought Andiamo! (E30+) last year, Markel actually suggested we look at BoatUS for much cheaper rates. Our coverage for Liability (marina) and boat replacement (-10% AV deductible) runs us around $500/year here in the SF Bay. No survey needed.
This discussion sort of begs the question: is anyone in this group "self insuring", i.e. maintaining a separate savings account fully equal to the current replacement cost of their Ericson?
(Before retiring, I worked for a state agency that administered unemployment insurance, whose premiums are paid by all employers via a small payroll % tax ** to a separate fund at the federal level. However..... government employers/entities could opt to not pay in directly but rather were obligated to fully reimburse the UI fund at the state level for the actual benefits that the Fund paid out.
(Trivia: either way there was financial incentive for them to reduce turnover and lessen their reimbursement costs. I also found out that large corporations would also "self insure" for other material loss possibilities, and maintain funding for replacing wrecked vehicles or other machinery. Chatting with their HR and Loss Prevention folk, they said it was actually less expensive to self insure. I rather suspect that they did have huge umbrella liability coverage, though.)
I personally know of several sailors that do this, and, they have enough $$ set aside to repair/re-rig/re-power their smaller vessel. Or, in case of a major loss, just part out the remains and buy another sailboat.
To reiterate again, as the saying goes, they all have liability policies. Up to 2021, I was the moorage chair our club's 150 slip moorage and got to regularly view insurance (required to occupy a slip) forms sent in throughout the year. How many of those owners actually had any money saved up to replace/repair their boat, I have no way to know, however.
** that small % varied by tenths, depending on actual employee turnover and subsequent draws agains the UI fund.
(Before retiring, I worked for a state agency that administered unemployment insurance, whose premiums are paid by all employers via a small payroll % tax ** to a separate fund at the federal level. However..... government employers/entities could opt to not pay in directly but rather were obligated to fully reimburse the UI fund at the state level for the actual benefits that the Fund paid out.
(Trivia: either way there was financial incentive for them to reduce turnover and lessen their reimbursement costs. I also found out that large corporations would also "self insure" for other material loss possibilities, and maintain funding for replacing wrecked vehicles or other machinery. Chatting with their HR and Loss Prevention folk, they said it was actually less expensive to self insure. I rather suspect that they did have huge umbrella liability coverage, though.)
I personally know of several sailors that do this, and, they have enough $$ set aside to repair/re-rig/re-power their smaller vessel. Or, in case of a major loss, just part out the remains and buy another sailboat.
To reiterate again, as the saying goes, they all have liability policies. Up to 2021, I was the moorage chair our club's 150 slip moorage and got to regularly view insurance (required to occupy a slip) forms sent in throughout the year. How many of those owners actually had any money saved up to replace/repair their boat, I have no way to know, however.
** that small % varied by tenths, depending on actual employee turnover and subsequent draws agains the UI fund.
Hey Kif, I went through the same thing last year with Geico. I'm on an 1973 E39. State Farm is the only one that would insure me (in Florida). I did have to get an insurance survey and add a few things, such as carbon monoxide alarm, smoke detector and updated engine room extinguisher. Aside from that, they didn't give me too much grief (the boat surveyed very well). Needless to say, if they drop me, I'll be in quite the pickle...
We have State Farm on our 1980 E31, and other policies thru them as well.
No complaints so far. IIRC no survey was required from them, though we had a survey when we bought the boat. And the policy covers us out to 100 miles offshore and thru most of the Bahamas. Doubt we’ll ever need more than that.
No complaints so far. IIRC no survey was required from them, though we had a survey when we bought the boat. And the policy covers us out to 100 miles offshore and thru most of the Bahamas. Doubt we’ll ever need more than that.
Geico-Boat US dropped me. Their California policy is to no longer insure boats over 40 years old, no exceptions.
I have a call in to State Farm, but wonder if any one has had recent success insuring here in California.
I have a call in to State Farm, but wonder if any one has had recent success insuring here in California.
You might want to check with our insurance agent, https://boatinsurance.net/
I have no idea if they can help you, but I have found them very helpful with my questions. As stated elsewhere on this site, they placed our boat with Travelers, within about 48 hours of receiving my application, after our re-fit.
(Of course, my past/recent experiences are never a guarantee for the future, mine or anyone else's!)
I have no idea if they can help you, but I have found them very helpful with my questions. As stated elsewhere on this site, they placed our boat with Travelers, within about 48 hours of receiving my application, after our re-fit.
(Of course, my past/recent experiences are never a guarantee for the future, mine or anyone else's!
)
bsangs
E35-3 - New Jersey
Did they drop you immediately? Not even a grace period until you find another insurer? This gives me pause, and wonders if they'll be doing the same thing in New Jersey.
They required a current survey, which I didn't get around to. But it didn;t matter, as the age-of-boat disqualification came first.
I must say that last year Boat US came through for me when my State Farm fire policy disavowed nautical equiment (sails, deck covers, line and so on) in my garage when the house and garage burned down. They suggested appealing to my boat insurance. I filed a $12K claim with Boat US and they wound up paying half, after depreciation. That was pretty good, I thought, since the gear wasn't even on the boat.
I must say that last year Boat US came through for me when my State Farm fire policy disavowed nautical equiment (sails, deck covers, line and so on) in my garage when the house and garage burned down. They suggested appealing to my boat insurance. I filed a $12K claim with Boat US and they wound up paying half, after depreciation. That was pretty good, I thought, since the gear wasn't even on the boat.
Drewm3i
Marine Surveyor
Try Progressive--I have used them for years and they have not only been great, but have paid two substantial claims (including a shattered windshield which was valued at $11,200) on the various boats I have owned over the years.
With your Youtube Channel and the documented condition/capability and pedigree of your boat that is a bit of a shock.
I probably would, except most marinas these days require proof of $500k-$1m of liability and/or spill coverage. That's not easy to self-fund.
To the OP, I'd recommend calling Novamar. They've been great to work with, including navigating the transition from Geico to Progressive when Geico exited the market.
bsangs
E35-3 - New Jersey
$11,200? What the hell was that windshield made of, platinum?
Drewm3i
Marine Surveyor
Curved tempered glass windshields have to be custom made. There is only one company in the world, Ocean Dynamics in Miami, that makes them (custom replacements) for boats.
I actually bought a donor boat and then swapped its windshield to replace the broken section. I wrote an article about it for PropTalk recently actually LOL: https://www.proptalk.com/shattered-...-kHRvwonjj8KiJOybj_aem_AZiONJVRSjaRQoPzhT8FLw
Back to the point: Progressive was great and their underwriter assigned to my case was fantastic! He fought to not total the boat and to also compensate me for a direct (glass) replacement.
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