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The $9k Boat That's Teaching Me a $14k Lesson - '81 Ericson 30+
- Thread starter Chris S
- Start date
As "they" say, "the only thing that works on an old boat is the owner."
As a surveyor, I have to also add that: 1) you should always get a survey unless you are quasi-professional in the marine industry in some relevant capacity--e.g. mechanic, rigger, shipwright, engineer, etc.; and 2) you better learn how to do at leasr some of your own work or you will soon be bankrupt.
As a surveyor, I have to also add that: 1) you should always get a survey unless you are quasi-professional in the marine industry in some relevant capacity--e.g. mechanic, rigger, shipwright, engineer, etc.; and 2) you better learn how to do at leasr some of your own work or you will soon be bankrupt.
AK67
Member III
Went through something similar with my E28-2, started with cutless bearing, couldn't get the transmission coupling off the prop shaft, smashed the stern tube in finally getting it off, had to rebuild the stern tube, then grind it to round. Sent propshaft to be straightened, new coupling to be ground, folding prop serviced. Lost a season. learned a lot, made friends in the boatyard. Did almost all of the work myself out of stubbornness.
Can you save some $ by going with a traditional bronze stuffing box instead of the dripless? They do have some advantages over the dripless.
Edit: While the rudder is off check for moisture content and any delamination - I also had to rebuild mine, but I know that going in. Check flange at top of rudder tube and replace packing, grease fittings.
Can you save some $ by going with a traditional bronze stuffing box instead of the dripless? They do have some advantages over the dripless.
Edit: While the rudder is off check for moisture content and any delamination - I also had to rebuild mine, but I know that going in. Check flange at top of rudder tube and replace packing, grease fittings.
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Pete the Cat
Sustaining Member
You can save money by going to the traditional bronze stuffing box and, for anyone doing serious offshore work, I recommend it (Don't ask). You can make a traditional bronze stuffing box dripless or almost dripless if you are willing to put in the time to make the serial adjustments and if your prop shaft is true, your engine aligned and if the shaft is not already scored. I recommend the dripless mechanical systems for most folks who are weekenders and occasional sailors as this takes a lot of fussiness to make a traditional bronze bronze box dripless but has been worth it with my boats in the last 40 years. I learned this from the lobstermen in Maine. This process takes a break-in time and requires regular checking and adjustment for heat and leaks in the first 10 hours--if you are not able and willing to do this, don't use this kit.
Buy some very high quality black Gortec packing, the Syntec grease and the Syntec green clay dripless stuffing kit (about $60) and follow the directions to the letter. Here are the key points:
1. Make 2 Gortec rings as you normally would for a stuffing box. If it is not a new box make sure it is clean inside and out.
2. Make a ring carefully from the green clay.
3. Douse all the rings in the Sytec grease before putting it together.
4. Make absolutely sure that you have every speck of the old packing out of the stuffing box.
5. Insert the first black ring tighten it once to ensure it is seated (you should do this with any stuffing material) open the box again.
6. Insert the clay ring very carefully and follow it up with the final black ring tamped in firmly all the way around.
7. Hand tighten the stuffing box and set the holding nut. Do not use a wrench on this yet.
8. Run the engine in gear and see if it leaks. If it leaks, turn it by hand and see if you can get it to stop. If it does not stop leaking, use a wrench and tighten the box 1/8 turn (use a marker to make sure) at a time until it just stops leaking.
9. You will need to check it--and likely tighten it a bit as the packing breaks in. It will take a few hours of running and multiple adjustments to get the packing broken in and set, but it is worth it to me to have something I can repair at sea. The box will run a bit hotter than a traditional leaking box but it should not be allowed to run above 150 degrees for any length of time. If it is too hot to touch, you must loosen the box. Best to tighten it slowly to eliminate leaking during the first hours of running.
This system is not for folks who are not committed to closely monitoring the break in period and comfortable with wrenching and repeated adjusting for the first few hours. However, I have run my boats with it for more than 3000 hours with only an occasional droplet here and there. Boatyards will not recommend this system for obvious reasons--they like just installing the Mechanical Dripless systems because they don't leak. Until they do. And that is the problem I have with them.
FWIW.
+1 on using a traditional stuffing box. I've had yards and other sailors try to convince me to put a dripless on my E32-3. At least one of them dropped their opinion when I told them I was going offshore.
The last time I repacked the stuffing box I used 1/8" PTFE. I just bought a new stuffing box because the old one was severely de-zincified. The new box takes 1/4" packing and I'm moving to GFO (Gortex), purchased from https://emarineinc.com/products/gfo-shaft-packing-1-4-inch-2-foot
I use a laser temp gun when adjusting the packing
Maine Sail has a great article on repacking a stuffing box: https://marinehowto.com/re-packing-a-traditional-stuffing-box/
The last time I repacked the stuffing box I used 1/8" PTFE. I just bought a new stuffing box because the old one was severely de-zincified. The new box takes 1/4" packing and I'm moving to GFO (Gortex), purchased from https://emarineinc.com/products/gfo-shaft-packing-1-4-inch-2-foot
I use a laser temp gun when adjusting the packing
Maine Sail has a great article on repacking a stuffing box: https://marinehowto.com/re-packing-a-traditional-stuffing-box/
It took me a minute to find where I saw this discussion... I knew it was in the recent posts somewhere, but... this post is not entitled 'packing gland' : )
TL; DR: How hot can I run my packing gland? (PS: standard fat-impregnated flax stuffing)
Anyway, I just spent an hour and a half attempting to adjust my packing gland (after finding way too much water in my bilge after a brief motor).
I tightened it a lot, then ran the engine a bit (1100 rpm, at the dock) to see if it got too hot. It did not drip (yay!) but did get too hot (could still hold it steadily, but it was warming more, felt "hot" though not problematically so in terms of pain or anything in my fingers, and I worried what would happen over an hour or two at 3x the rpm (normal cruising rpm is 3000- 3200 for this engine.)
So I backed it off. Still too hot. Backed off more, now cool and.. dripping > 1/sec (I figure that's about 3/4th of a liter / hr).
So I tightened it 1/8 turn. Seemed to be getting too hot. Backed of 1/16 turn. Now it is:
- warm-ish, but definitely not hot by any (by-touch) measure
- drips about 1/sec ... so back to a bit under a liter/hr (at 1100 rpm... maybe this triples at 3200 rpm? That would be consistent with the gallon of water I just turkey-basted out of my bilge after an hour running... but maybe some of that was from recent rain. Usually it's more like a liter plus.)
--> How hot is OK for the nuts on the packing gland? I'd like to tighten more, but it will then probably get to a point where it is not comfortable to be holding continuously. Right now it's probably running 100F ish... by 130 F I assume you don't want to be holding it very long (140 F is the limit for cautious people w/ a hot water heater, and that level of hot is definitely uncomfortable.)
Anyway, I could use some advice -- this is / has been a continuous PITA, but of course I don't want to create a bigger issue by cranking it down too far. But I am nowhere near the 1 drip/minute I hear people (Including Maine Sail / Marine How-To) discuss. Clsoer to 60X that, actually.
For those of you who are 'by hand' people, how hot is OK?
TL; DR: How hot can I run my packing gland? (PS: standard fat-impregnated flax stuffing)
Anyway, I just spent an hour and a half attempting to adjust my packing gland (after finding way too much water in my bilge after a brief motor).
I tightened it a lot, then ran the engine a bit (1100 rpm, at the dock) to see if it got too hot. It did not drip (yay!) but did get too hot (could still hold it steadily, but it was warming more, felt "hot" though not problematically so in terms of pain or anything in my fingers, and I worried what would happen over an hour or two at 3x the rpm (normal cruising rpm is 3000- 3200 for this engine.)
So I backed it off. Still too hot. Backed off more, now cool and.. dripping > 1/sec (I figure that's about 3/4th of a liter / hr).
So I tightened it 1/8 turn. Seemed to be getting too hot. Backed of 1/16 turn. Now it is:
- warm-ish, but definitely not hot by any (by-touch) measure
- drips about 1/sec ... so back to a bit under a liter/hr (at 1100 rpm... maybe this triples at 3200 rpm? That would be consistent with the gallon of water I just turkey-basted out of my bilge after an hour running... but maybe some of that was from recent rain. Usually it's more like a liter plus.)
--> How hot is OK for the nuts on the packing gland? I'd like to tighten more, but it will then probably get to a point where it is not comfortable to be holding continuously. Right now it's probably running 100F ish... by 130 F I assume you don't want to be holding it very long (140 F is the limit for cautious people w/ a hot water heater, and that level of hot is definitely uncomfortable.)
Anyway, I could use some advice -- this is / has been a continuous PITA, but of course I don't want to create a bigger issue by cranking it down too far. But I am nowhere near the 1 drip/minute I hear people (Including Maine Sail / Marine How-To) discuss. Clsoer to 60X that, actually.
For those of you who are 'by hand' people, how hot is OK?
Probably not currently relevant in the new millennium, but when we acquired our boat in '95, it had a bronze conventional stuffing box. That sturdy item is still around, but only because it's stored in my basement.
Your narrative sounds a LOT like my efforts to become literate in stuffing-ology, After getting it too hot, too drippy, and back n forth, and "'rinse and repeat" with this, I installed a new PSS shaft seal. No doubt I could have stayed the course and learned the ways of the different types of packing as others here have evidently done. For sure. Yup, the problem is mostly my impatience with coping with the educational load of learning to repair a certified fixer-upper.
But after replacing the PSS bellows a couple of times over the decades I really like having a dry bilge. No one answer fits all situations or personalities, but perhaps you might consider an alternative answer. I hope you do find satisfaction!
