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Abandoned Boats?

gareth harris

Sustaining Member
feed 'em half truths and empirically suspect theories. Don't let on that -in the world of science - there's rarely ever 'concensus.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

I was a scientist before I gave it up to see the world, and I wonder if you know how right you are. When my father was a young scientist, those in his field were essentially given funding and left to use it as they saw best; in return they advanced understanding more than could possibly have been asked of them, such as the structure of DNA (Jim Watson, Francis Crick), Haemoglobin (Max Perutz), Lysozyme (David Phillips), muscle fibres (Hugh Huxley) .... the list goes on, all young men acting on their own initiative. Half a century later I am locked in conflict with the more senior elements of my leadership because their scientists are not allowed to voice things as they really are, so I am doing it for them - a story for another time.

But despite all that, another thought. The US still has plenty of pristine, unspoiled, land to explore. When I travel I can always find a spot to basha for the night, which is peaceful with fresh air, and often a lot of wildlife to be seen. Large tracts of land set aside for conservation still look much the same way they would have looked to the first paleface. There are still plenty of young folk who venture into them - even if they are considerably outnumbered by fat b'stards taking no end of drugs (prescription) just to function, and who never hike further than the width of the mall car park.

The coastline is not like that anymore. I once spoke to a woman in her 80s who was describing trips to Kitty Hawk in the 1920s, usually by boat as there was only one dirt road down the barrier island, and camping on the open sands, cooking freshly caught fish on beach fires. Now it is one long stretch of condos and hotels, which stretch from Key West to Labrador with only a few breaks, and that is part of the reason sailing has lost its adventure - in 1930 when Swallows and Amazons was written there were uninhabitied islands to discover, but they now provide summer homes for the affluent who do not want strangers wandering around.

As we all know here, boat ownership is not easy, at least if you are not extremely wealthy, and I think young adventurers tend not to go into sailing because there are better escapes available for less effort inland.

I do not know whether previous generations had more adventurers than mine, but aside from those I work most closely with, who are an exception to the rule, I know very few in their 20s and 30s who are the slightest bit interested in owning a boat, and I do not see that changing.

Gareth
Freyja E35 241 1972
 
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CaptDan

Member III
I was a scientist before I gave it up to see the world, and I wonder if you know how right you are. When my father was a young scientist, those in his field were essentially given funding and left to use it as they saw best; in return they advanced understanding more than could possibly have been asked of them, such as the structure of DNA (Jim Watson, Francis Crick), Haemoglobin (Max Perutz), Lysozyme (David Phillips), muscle fibres (Hugh Huxley) .... the list goes on, all young men acting on their own initiative. Half a century later I am locked in conflict with the more senior elements of my leadership because their scientists are not allowed to voice things as they really are, so I am doing it for them - a story for another time.

But despite all that, another thought. The US still has plenty of pristine, unspoiled, land to explore. When I travel I can always find a spot to basha for the night, which is peaceful with fresh air, and often a lot of wildlife to be seen. Large tracts of land set aside for conservation still look much the same way they would have looked to the first paleface. There are still plenty of young folk who venture into them - even if they are considerably outnumbered by fat b'stards taking no end of drugs (prescription) just to function, and who never hike further than the width of the mall car park.

The coastline is not like that anymore. I once spoke to a woman in her 80s who was describing trips to Kitty Hawk in the 1920s, usually by boat as there was only one dirt road down the barrier island, and camping on the open sands, cooking freshly caught fish on beach fires. Now it is one long stretch of condos and hotels, which stretch from Key West to Labrador with only a few breaks, and that is part of the reason sailing has lost its adventure - in 1930 when Swallows and Amazons was written there were uninhabitied islands to discover, but they now provide summer homes for the affluent who do not want strangers wandering around.

As we all know here, boat ownership is not easy, at least if you are not extremely wealthy, and I think young adventurers tend not to go into sailing because there are better escapes available for less effort inland.

I do not know whether previous generations had more adventurers than mine, but aside from those I work most closely with, who are an exception to the rule, I know very few in their 20s and 30s who are the slightest bit interested in owning a boat, and I do not see that changing.

Gareth
Freyja E35 241 1972

Humbling insights, Gareth, and a well written essay in its own right.

I suppose we can't change the entire world in our lifetimes, but maybe we can pass on a part of ourselves when we can.

My small contribution to that effort is reflected in the smiles of kids and adults who take the wheel of my boat and experience directly the power of nature moving through the canvas. The moment they first 'get it' is visibly transformational and immensely rewarding. There isn't a passive activity anywhere that can replace it.

If know what I mean.;)

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 
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Akavishon

Member III
I'm 41 years old, and most of my friends are within a few years of my age. As a boatowner, I have observed the following rules, applicable to my age group and social circle:

- People who contract the 'boating bug' will jump in no matter what. Very quickly, they will realize that owning a boat is a full-time committed relationship: your boat will soon dispatch all your other hobbies, and - if you're not careful - your girlfriend and other friends as well.

- People who are single will find that spending their weekends varnishing or sailing is not helping their efforts to find a life partner. In New England, summers are short, there are only so many weekends in the season, and so many different social activities to pursue ... brunches, bbq's, parties and chasing boys/girls will usually trump boating. It really comes down to '%chance-of-meeting-someone-per-hour-of-weekend-time'.

- Married couples may not share their interest in boating, so it's less likely they will actively pursue it. People work all week long and need the weekend to run errands and spend time with their partner. If they have young kids, then forget it altogether - who's got time to sit on the water?

I think that may help explain why there is a generation gap between younger folks (e.g. 20's) who may pursue competitive sailing as a sport, and more mature folks (ahem ;) who pursue sailing as a lifestyle and hobby. My generation seems stuck in family-reality in between.

Zoran
 

Lucky Dog

Member III
A view from a high school classroom

Following this thread has been fun as always. Back in the beginning; your remember..."abandoned boats" has so many sayings we are so fond of repeating when we are around the un enlighten landlubbers. "a boat is a hole in the water you through money into, the amount of fun is inversely related to the cost......

I have been teaching for 21 years; kids haven't changed, parents have. I am lucky enough to teach in a program were students have to innovate, build, and push their limits for their own goals. (not some misdirected test).

A discussion with a student after school, "I really miss going to the cabin and fishing with my dad, we use to go all summer long and snow mobile all winter, now he just wants fix stuff around the house".

My students come to school a 1 & 1/2 hours before school and stay 2 to 4 hours after school working on projects.

I have taken scouts on long back packing trips. After a week of finding a rhythm, they do the same goofy stuff I did...a long time ago. They spend hours watching a ant hill, a hawk fly or the sun setting.

To add to your reading list here one of top five favorite. Neil Postman has written several books on education and how technology is changing us. This one documents the growth of the Disney experience in desperate hopes of feeling the thrill of adventure our past generations.


ml
 

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TwistedLogic

Member II
Youth Sailing

If I may add my 2 cents worth...
If you are interested in the future of boating, get involved or support a youth boating program!
The little Florida town I live in has a very active youth boating program and introduces dozens of kids to sailing every year. The kids start out in Opti's and move up thru Lasers, Sunfish and 420's.
As a result, the area high schools all have very active programs racing the 420's.
Go to a youth regatta sometime. Around here getting over 100 boats at a youth regatta is average, and the popular regattas draw 300 or more.
At least once a year, the "big boys" invite the youth sailors to crew in the off-shore boats for their buoy races. The skippers are always impressed with the skill level of the youthful crews, and it gets the kids interested in the bigger boats.
Oh, and did I mention that this is a retirement community? The local joke is that old people retire to St. Petersburg, FL and their parents live here!
This program is all possible because the "older" folks volunteer, coach and support these kids.
Guess what, the kids appreciate the support and in turn, for the most part, make friends with the volunteers, treat the boats and facilities with respect, and "gasp" respect their elders.
I know the system works because it has been going on for well over a generation, and the "old" kids are now bringing their kids in to sail.
It takes time and effort, but it is where our sport's future lies.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
Fishing (from boats...) down in Minnesota

From the paper this morning in Minnesota. Not about boating, but rather fishing (which is mostly done from boats here) - but participation is way down, and folks are worried, as the 16 to 44 crowd don't seem to be involved anymore. Sounds a lot like our discussion about sailing, doesn't it?



LOOK WHO’S fishing NOW

The bad news: Fewer young people are hitting Minnesota’s lakes and streams these days. The good news: Baby boomers are taking their place.

More Minnesotans are fishing today than in 2000.

The problem is, those anglers are growing older.

Minnesota Department of Natur*al Resources officials, who rely on license revenues to run the agency, have fretted for years as they’ve watched the percentage of Min*nesotans who fish drop from 40 percent in the 1970s to 29 per*cent in recent years.

Worse yet, the number of people ages 16 to 44 who fish has been declining, raising fears there won’t be a new generation of Min*nesotans plying White Bear Lake or Mille Lacs for walleyes or bass.

But this is a good-news, bad-news story, as we approach the St. Croix River season opener May 2 and the general fishing opener May 9.

Baby boom anglers appear to be filling in the gap where younger anglers are dropping off.

Fishing license sales to Min*nesotans have risen every year since 2005, according to a new DNR study, and the fishing partici*pation rate has stabilized at 29 per*cent after decades of decline.

Individual resident license sales increased about 1 percent last year, while nonresident individual licenses declined almost 10 per*cent. C.B. Bylander, DNR fish and wildlife division outreach section chief, said there is no one reason why fishing license sales increased last year. Warm summer weather, high gas prices and a DNR advertising campaign might have persuaded Minnesotans to travel to a local lake and wet a line, he said.

Tim Kelly, a DNR researcher, said the best news is that fishing participation in Minnesota seems to have leveled off since 2005 after a long decline. Fishing participation is a measure of the percentage of Minnesotans who fish, not the total number of licenses sold.

"I haven't looked at the 2008 numbers, but we had upticks in 2005, 2006 and 2007 in which license sales kept pace with population growth, which is the first time in a while that has happened," Kelly said. "On the basis of million license sales, it's about 2 percent, which is not much, but at least it's not going down."

Kelly said the slight upswell in anglers doesn't appear to be coming from those ages 16 to 44. Minnesotans participating in fishing in that age category dropped 10 percent from 2000 to 2007. About 1 percent of that decline has occurred since 2005.

Meanwhile, baby boomers, or those ages 45 to 63, haveincreased their participation in fishing in the past three years.

"If you look at young to middle- age Minnesotans, that age group is still going down. It's being balanced by the baby boomers, who are really hanging in there. They are keeping hunting and fishing numbers up," Kelly said.

It is difficult to make any conclusions about how this trend is playing out in the state's fishing industry, which has been buffeted by declining retail sales and store closings.

Mike Alwin owns Bob Mitchell's Fly Shop in Lake Elmo and is one of two independently owned fly-fishing specialty shops in the Twin Cities. He said his fly-fishing classes have been full in recent years and he has been able to attract anglers of all ages.

"We used to have seven fly shops (in the Twin Cities), and now we're down to two," he said. "But I'm still awfully busy, teaching classes and waiting on customers. I just had a 13-year-old kid sign up for a fly-tying class."

Josh Stevenson owns Blue Ribbon Bait in Oakdale, and he has seen a steady stream of customers coming into his store since the economy stalled. Patrons are not buying expensive rods, reels and electronics, but bait and small-ticket items.

"My business has been pretty stable, but I think it has to do with unemployment," he said. "When unemployment is up, we sell more bait. It's guys that are 25 or 30 who are on unemployment and theyare going out fishing for an afternoon."

He said his business has likely benefited from the recent closing of a nearby Sportsman's Warehouse, a big-box outdoors retailer in Woodbury. Another Sportsman's Warehouse also closed recently in Coon Rapids.

The DNR is sending 90,000 postcards this spring to Minnesotans whose fishing licenses have lapsed. It is the third consecutive year the agency has tried to reach anglers who have fished in the past but haven't purchased a license. The program appears to be successful in getting anglers to buy new licenses, Bylander said.

The agency also is beefing up its MinnAqua program, which teaches kids about fishing. The program will be at more state parks this summer, Bylander said, and the agency is sponsoring a youth- fishing event at the Governor's Fishing Opener on White Bear Lake on May 9.

Still, there is reason to be concerned about the lack of interest in Minnesotans, ages 16 to 44, who are not fishing as much as the generation of 30 years ago, Kelly said.

The stable fishing-participation rate probably isn't sustainable, Kelly said, as baby boomers get older.

"Eventually, the baby boomers are going to quit and they'll start dropping off," he said. "That's what concerns us."
 

Bardo

Member II
I'm not giving up!

All that you each say is true. I am caught in the 40 something, too much to do and not enough time/money for the boat thing. On the up-side, We live in a place where I can (and do) kick the kids out the door on Saturday morning, telling them to return when they hungry, thirsty, tired or injured. Until last year we had a Bristol 29 which I loved and sailed with the kids (and occasionally the wife) as often as I could. But soccer, Tae Kwon Do, scouts and other activities got in the way, and we let the boat go. I am teaching the kids to sail in an Aqua Finn, which is a barely glorified sunfish. We keep the boat on the beach and just drag it out when we want to sail. There are perhaps 20 other kids growing up in our community, and i don't fear for their future as it pertains to the outdoors. One way to bring sailing together with the kids and the outdoors is to sponsor a Sea Scout boat, which is as I understand it, a sub-set of scouting which begins at age 14 and is co-ed. You learn all the things that you would expect to learn, but you do it in the context of sailing rather than camping. I plan to sponsor a unit if I can when my kids are in age range (2-3 years). Maybe I can even deduct the costs of the boat!
 

Lucky Dog

Member III
The cheers for that idea

I have been in scouting all my life. When I was in high school some parents got together because many of us were losing interest in Boy Scouts. Skipper had been in the Navy and so a Sea Explorer unit was started. We started with 11 scouts and ended with over 100 members with 60 of them active with weekly meetings. We owned a dozen small boats. My first big boat experience was from adult who invited us to go sailing after winning a national competition. I am sure you have great resources in your area; if there is anything i can do, please ask.

ml
 

lonestar

New Member
Am Curious to Know if Anyone on Here knows of any 24'+ Sailboats available......

I am curious to know if anyone on here has a boat they can't afford to keep... I am a disabled (service connected) Veteran, and would really like to acquire a boat for free, or very low cost. I would need to be able to get it up here to the NYC area, somehow. Thanks for any suggestions any of you can offer me!

Contact me at: lonestarkilledkennedy at gmail...
 

Vagabond39

Member III
Abandoned Boats

"beach them at low tide on the banks of creeks " Sounds like the Times Reporter didn't raealize that when the tide comes in, the boats float off. Beach them at High tide, andthey will cant over, and probably flood. that would be more efective, and not endanger other boaters. In either case pollution will result. That causes higher taxes and is counterproductive.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
A solution would be for the State to collect the derelicts and auction them off. Demolition of a fiberglass hull is nasty, itchy, sweaty work, but a gas powered demo saw does it pretty quickly (I've done it) and the scrap value of the keel lead, stainless, bronze, aluminum, etc. would make it viable. Just issue a salvage title, transfer ownership, and be done with it.

We have had a few derelicts here in RI. They are easy to spot, covered in seagull sh!t, anchor lines thick with growth. I've no idea who removes them....

Regarding the decline of sailing, isn't it rather obvious? Boating in general is a rather expensive affair. In both time and money. People today have multiple car payments, cellphone payments, data plans, satellite radio bills, cable bills, mortgages, credit card debt, etc. Even if they have minimal debt, their spending cash is whittled away by a multitude of little expenses that result in not a lot of extra money. And then lets consider time. Most young people have strapped themselves with the problems noted above and cannot afford it if they had the time. Families are too busy with every possible activity for the kids, parents dutifully standing on sidelines cheering junior on, as everyone knows screaming your support from the sidelines is way more productive than actually spending time enjoying an activity together like sailing....

RT
 
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