At what wind speed do you decide to stay at the dock?

[Andrew Means]

My friends and I went out on Lake Union yesterday in ~25kt winds; we had a lot of fun and the Wino Country Safari never ceases to amaze me with its heavy weather performance. We put a reef in the main and had the storm jib up and it sailed like a dream - really composed and confident. I've been out in similar winds on Puget Sound and was amazed at how much fun I had, and how great the boat performed.

However the other folks in the marina kept saying how brave/crazy we were to go out, and I got the sense that the conventional wisdom was that it was 'too windy to go sailing'. We saw only a handful of other sailboats on the lake, most of them in some stage of lowering their sails and returning to dock.

So I thought I'd ask - at what point do you generally stay at mooring (or high tail it to shelter)? What's the windiest conditions you've ever been in, and at what point (if any) did you start to feel unsafe?

 

[Frank Langer]

Very good question, and my experience has been similar to what you described. For me it also depends on whether I am single handing or sailing with my wife or a more experienced sailor.

My wife and I have sailed (coastal ocean sailing/Strait of Georgia) in up to 35 knots, and that was challenging--I was glad to get to our destination with everything intact. The strain on lines was noticeable, and I was a bit worried about fingers getting caught in winches, etc. We have sailed a number of times with winds of about 25 - 27 knots, and while challenging, it was certainly manageable.

When going out single handed, I likely would not go if winds were more than 20 knots unless I had to go for some reason. The main issue for me would be leaving the dock and arriving at the dock in those winds on my own. Our dock is very tight, and prop walk and stronger winds tend to blow me into the next boat, so I have to be careful.

On our coast, because we have lots of sailing days, many sailors will be more selective about the conditions they would want, and often prefer to wait for a more perfect day--sunny, warm, 12 - 15 knot winds.

Frank

 

[steved]

I sail out of Milwaukee on Lake Michigan on an E32. The bigger issue is waves. 25 knots in 3-4 footers is very, very different than 25 knots in 6-8 ft. In smaller waves with high winds, simply reef right at the dock. Run with less sail and you'll be more than fine. The boat can more than handle the wind when properly reefed.

 

[Andrew Means]

Very good question, and my experience has been similar to what you described. For me it also depends on whether I am single handing or sailing with my wife or a more experienced sailor.

My wife and I have sailed (coastal ocean sailing/Strait of Georgia) in up to 35 knots, and that was challenging--I was glad to get to our destination with everything intact. The strain on lines was noticeable, and I was a bit worried about fingers getting caught in winches, etc. We have sailed a number of times with winds of about 25 - 27 knots, and while challenging, it was certainly manageable.

When going out single handed, I likely would not go if winds were more than 20 knots unless I had to go for some reason. The main issue for me would be leaving the dock and arriving at the dock in those winds on my own. Our dock is very tight, and prop walk and stronger winds tend to blow me into the next boat, so I have to be careful.

On our coast, because we have lots of sailing days, many sailors will be more selective about the conditions they would want, and often prefer to wait for a more perfect day--sunny, warm, 12 - 15 knot winds.

Frank

Yeah, coming back into our dock was a little hairy yesterday - the wind was blowing straight down the marina and we were looking at a right angle turn at the end right into our slip. We came in a little hot; I could have scrubbed more speed by zig zagging, but we were okay.

 

[Andrew Means]

I sail out of Milwaukee on Lake Michigan on an E32. The bigger issue is waves. 25 knots in 3-4 footers is very, very different than 25 knots in 6-8 ft. In smaller waves with high winds, simply reef right at the dock. Run with less sail and you'll be more than fine. The boat can more than handle the wind when properly reefed.

Yeah, waves make a huge difference. Sailing in gale conditions in Puget Sound with the right fetch will give you steep 4-6ft waves; I've been out in those conditions once or twice and it's it's own kind of "fun". I'm continually amazed at how confident the boat seems even in conditions like that, with the right sail choice.

 

[MarkA]

It depends...

... on my purpose for sailing, my energy level, and my crew. When I'm motivated, there is very little Southern California can dish out that would keep me home. I've been amazed at what my boat takes in stride.

 

[bayhoss]

I just go...

My boat is an e28 and it usually depends more on the waves than the speed of the wind. Most of the time I reef to the first set at about 15-17 kts. Then as things ramp up to around 22kts I take the main to the second set and reduce the jib accordingly. The wife and I have sailed at 27+ kts. The conditions had me on my toes, but I never worried for a moment if the Ericson would stand up to the elements.

Best always,
Frank

 

[rwthomas1]

I generally don't leave the dock if its blowing more than 25kts. Its not the wind, its the waves. In the Bay the waves can get very nasty if the wind is against the tide. Rough ride and very wet. Much worse than being outside in open water. I've been 3-5miles offshore in @30kts and it wasn't bad reaching with sails reefed, large swells but not rough or wet. Its not something I do unless I'm trying to get somewhere, like home. If there is green water coming over the bow, the wind is too strong and water bigger than I care for. I've had one really wild ride on Columbus Day weekend a few years back sailing to Block Island. Water over the bow, running back up the deck under the dodger in places and into the cockpit. Getting water in the cockpit of my E38 is a sure sign I should find a harbor and fast. I also was dumb enough to get caught in a microburst the first year I had the boat. Saw a 53kt peak during the worst of it. If I do that again it will be too soon. RT

 

[Special K]

Getting away from the dock

Andrew,

I was having a late lunch with my family at the China Harbor Restaurant on Lake Union on Sunday when I looked out the window to see some crazy guy sailing an Ericson, and I was thinking to myself, "could that crazy guy out in all that wind be Andrew?" I guess my answer was "yes."

You did a great job keeping the boat flat and not rounding up in the gusts. Before I saw you out there sailing, I was thinking to myself that it was the first time I ever saw white caps on Lake Union. Have fast were you going downwind? You looked like you were flying.

Peter

 

[Andrew Means]

Andrew,

I was having a late lunch with my family at the China Harbor Restaurant on Lake Union on Sunday when I looked out the window to see some crazy guy sailing an Ericson, and I was thinking to myself, "could that crazy guy out in all that wind be Andrew?" I guess my answer was "yes."

You did a great job keeping the boat flat and not rounding up in the gusts. Before I saw you out there sailing, I was thinking to myself that it was the first time I ever saw white caps on Lake Union. Have fast were you going downwind? You looked like you were flying.

Peter

Hah, awesome! We were really cooking - our knot meter is toasted so I don't exactly know how fast we were going downwind; but I remember that we were making as-good-as or better time than the waves. Going upwind we were around hull speed as well. The boat was so balanced, the gusts just gave the boat more power and pointing ability instead of weather helm. That was actually the first time I've used that storm jib, I had been wanting a chance to test it out!

 

[CaptDan]

it was the first time I ever saw white caps on Lake Union.

Must've been a southerly, eh? During the 4 years we lived in the Seattle area, we sailed a bit on Lake Union and even more on Lake Washington. In that whole time, I'd only seen a strong southerly fetch about three times. In one case - aboard another vessel - the gusts hit <>35kts; a couple in a daysailer capsized. We tried in vain to get them aboard the boat (a 50 foot excursion ferry). Fortunately the Harbor Patrol had better luck.

To answer the original question: like others, it depends on the wind/current conditions. On SF Bay, if it's ebbing fast and blowing hard from the west - >22kts or more - things can get hairy. But our boat doesn't seem to mind, taking the slop in stride with a 90% jib and reefed main. That said, I prefer 8-15kts apparent; it's just a little more manageable - especially single handing or short crewed.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

 

[Jeff Asbury]

At what wind speed do you decide to stay at the dock?

First off, love the name of your boat, "Wino Country Safari", I thought I had a wacky name for my boat. "Pride Of Cucamonga". I noticed that you also sail a E-27. To answer your question, "At what wind speed do you decide to stay at the dock?" I would have to say my comfort zone is usually not to go out when it's pushing 30+ knots. I often sail in conditions between 18 & 25 knots in a area here in San Pedro, CA nicknamed "Hurricane Gulch". Since I basically single hand, even when I have a passenger on board. I rarely put a reef in the main unless I know it will be blowing like stink in advance, then I will reef the main at the dock. Since the Main on my Standard Rig E-27 does not carry that much sail area I can get away with roller reefing the jib up to about 25%, although I know this is not the best practice.

Here's a video clip single handing, (actually the tiller pilot was doing the handing) in about 25 knots. Single reef in the main, and the 140 genoa furled up at about 25%.

25 knots just outside LA Harbor:

http://youtu.be/MEPrtzf7CbY

18 knots in "Hurricane Gulch" genoa furled up a tad.

http://youtu.be/5uTEyHRQei0

 

[C Masone]

It matters how much beer is on board

Take the amount of beer bottles on board, multiply it by the wind speed, if the result is over 100 stay on the dock and drink the beer.

 

[bayhoss]

Take the amount of beer bottles on board, multiply it by the wind speed, if the result is over 100 stay on the dock and drink the beer.

Outstanding post, simply outstanding!

Best,
Frank

 

[steven]

Have had my E35-2 on Chesapeake gusting 30+. Reefed main and 90% headsail. No problem. But bumpy and uncomfortable for passengers (especially in the rain -I love sailing in heavy weather in the driving rain - but others don't seem to like it - can't understand why). Single handing, I will go out in pretty much anything below a gale. But with guests I find it is not entertaining to leave the dock if conditions above upper teens and/or wet and/or cold.

A bigger problem is at the other end the windscale. Under 5kts and over 90deg is no fun at all. Will stay at home or motor to a nearby swimming hole. Is there a beer formula for low wind?


--Steve

 

[Don Smith]

Jeff,

I notice that both your videos show Cucamonga underway with the gate in her starboard lifeline open. Is this some sort of heavy-weather tactic, or what?

Captain Don
Gitana E26

 

[C Masone]

A bigger problem is at the other end the windscale. Under 5kts and over 90deg is no fun at all. Will stay at home or motor to a nearby swimming hole. Is there a beer formula for low wind?


--Steve

That's easy, 5kts X 20 beers = 100 - Stay on the dock!

 

[Andrew Means]

First off, love the name of your boat, "Wino Country Safari", I thought I had a wacky name for my boat. "Pride Of Cucamonga". I noticed that you also sail a E-27. To answer your question, "At what wind speed do you decide to stay at the dock?" I would have to say my comfort zone is usually not to go out when it's pushing 30+ knots. I often sail in conditions between 18 & 25 knots in a area here in San Pedro, CA nicknamed "Hurricane Gulch". Since I basically single hand, even when I have a passenger on board. I rarely put a reef in the main unless I know it will be blowing like stink in advance, then I will reef the main at the dock. Since the Main on my Standard Rig E-27 does not carry that much sail area I can get away with roller reefing the jib up to about 25%, although I know this is not the best practice.

Here's a video clip single handing, (actually the tiller pilot was doing the handing) in about 25 knots. Single reef in the main, and the 140 genoa furled up at about 25%.

25 knots just outside LA Harbor:

http://youtu.be/MEPrtzf7CbY

18 knots in "Hurricane Gulch" genoa furled up a tad.

http://youtu.be/5uTEyHRQei0

Glad you like the name Jeff - we got the name from the guy we sold our previous boat to; as we were helping him sail the boat down to Tacoma, someone remarked that Tacoma had kind of cleaned itself up over the past decade or so. The guy was like "Oh yeah, man, back in the 90's everytime you went downtown it was like taking a wino country safari..." We thought that was just about perfect : )

 

[Andrew Means]

it was the first time I ever saw white caps on Lake Union.

Must've been a southerly, eh? During the 4 years we lived in the Seattle area, we sailed a bit on Lake Union and even more on Lake Washington. In that whole time, I'd only seen a strong southerly fetch about three times. In one case - aboard another vessel - the gusts hit <>35kts; a couple in a daysailer capsized. We tried in vain to get them aboard the boat (a 50 foot excursion ferry). Fortunately the Harbor Patrol had better luck.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

You're right Dan, it was a southerly. Seems like most of the time it blows from the north(ish) but the times when it's been really strong it's always come out of the south. Not sure why that is...

 

[Dan Morehouse]

If it's blowing 25, I probably stay at the dock because of the hassle leaving and then docking again in what is almost always a crosswind in the slip. Most wind I've ever sailed this boat in was 30 kts. on Carquinez Strait. We were beating with just the big genoa up, no main. The boat behaved fine, if overpowered some; there was a lot of bounce in the headstay because I guess I forgot I had a hydraulic backstay adjuster. Duh. I'd love to try it with a tiny jib and a storm trysail in something heavier, just to experiment. But I will have to leave the dock in over 25 kts. to do it!