Adjustable backstay

[our38]

Since we are fairly new to sailing, decided to dive in (wallet first), and just purchased an Ericson 38'. I've had comments from a couple folks that I should add an adjustable backstay. I have many other items higher on the list, but thought I'd ask if any of you have done this, and see what's involved. I am planning on replacing my halyards right away, and thought I'd get some opinions on whether this should be done at the same time?

 

[Pokey]

No reason to put time, money, or attention into changing to an adjustable backstay unless your racing, sail in a breezy area, or are a pretty advance sail trimmer.

In any case, changing out the backstay would be done in conjunction with work on your standing rigging and isn't a project related to upgrading halyards.

BTW, I'm not discounting the importance of an adjustable backstay. I'm currently in the process or replacing the hydraulic backstay on my boat with a cascading, double-ended system.

Good luck with the new boat!</SPAN>

SG</SPAN>
Olson 911SE</SPAN>

 

[Loren Beach]

When you reach the point of replacing the backstay, consider what we did.
Our boat came with a factory hydraulic adjuster. I love to be able to change the pressure for upwind and downwind sailing, and entering a race is not relevant to that.

Our rigger advised us to add a turnbuckle above the hydraulic unit and we did. Idea is that if the pump ever refuses to hold pressure, and that can happen, we can take up the turnbuckle all the way and have useable tension on the forestay anyway.
So the turnbuckle is there, pretty much fully-extended, just in case...
:nerd:

Something to think about.

Cheers,
LB

 

[Rocinante33]

BTW, I'm not discounting the importance of an adjustable backstay. I'm currently in the process or replacing the hydraulic backstay on my boat with a cascading, double-ended system.

Pokey,

Why would you trade out a hydraulic system for a cascading, double ended system? Does the hydraulic need to be rebuilt? That might be simpler and cheaper than changing. I think of the hydraulic as the gold standard.

I want to add a hydraulic, but it wil probably wait until I redo my standing rigging.

 

[Loren Beach]

Muscles!

IIRC, the factory double-ended block n tackle BS scheme on the E-33RH took a very strong (young?) man to operate.... I was not that guy...
when I used to crew on one once in a while.

I will see if Mike can comment on his changeover to the hydraulic BS on his 33.
Loren

 

[E33MikeOx]

Re Hydraulic vs cascading tackle backstay adjuster
The E-33RH came from the factory with an elaborate cascading double ended system using wire and wire blocks, and two (2) underdeck 6 part rope block and tackle systems. Replacing it was driven by the fact that it just wasn't meeting my needs. the system was just "OK" power wise, if you had a reliable crw of big, very strong, and young crew. (Ahem, that's not my situation!) My original "plan" was to add some parts to the system to increase the mechanical advantage, and I discussed that with an experienced riger, who did some cost estimating for me. Did you know that wire blocks with high load ratings are not given away as prizes in Cracker Jax boxes? The rigger strongly recommeded a hydraulic backstay adjuster as a much better solution. It's simple, more convenient, more powerful, and avoids the "Rube Goldberg" factor of a multi-multi part wire tackle system; and, it was the lowest cost solution.

Remember, these coments are worth their weight in gold. (Do electronic ones and zeros have ANY weight?) YMMV

Mike O.

E-33RH JP Foolish, Hull #25

 

[Pokey]

Pokey,

Why would you trade out a hydraulic system for a cascading, double ended system? Does the hydraulic need to be rebuilt? That might be simpler and cheaper than changing. I think of the hydraulic as the gold standard.

I want to add a hydraulic, but it will probably wait until I redo my standing rigging.

Hey Keith,

Yes, the hydraulic unit needs to be rebuilt ($330 at Sea Tec).

Switching to a cascade will cost about the same or a little more, including a new spectra backstay.

A cascading system is far better for a boat in the 30 foot range, in my opinion. Here's why:

1. Blocks are much lighter.
2. Blocks don't need to be rebuilt every 10 years.
3. The cascade system works better for making small adjustments to sail shape in puffs and lulls.
4. A cascade (block and tackle) system is easy to route so that adjustments can be made while by the helm or main-trimmer stays on-station. This is important for three sub-reasons:
a. The helmsmen or trimmer can adjust the backstay while concentrating on their primary tasks.
b. Keeps weight out of the ass-end of the boat, allowing the boat to sail 'on her lines'.
c. Keeps weight closer to the boat's fulcrum (fore-aft center) and thereby minimizes see-sawing.
5. You can also make a cascade system double-ended so that adjustments can be made from either rail (invaluable while sailing upwind in a breeze).
6. Blocks are also probably more reliable.


Just my opinion. Others will probably disagree.

 

[Seth]

hydaulics vs blocks

The answer to this question totally depends on the boat size and characteristics of the mast.

It is also true that todays block and tackle system using modern hardware are FAR superior to what was supplied on these boats (or any boats) 10+ years ago.

For the O911 types, I would go with the block system-it is faster to adjust and you don't to go to the back of the boat or lean into the cockpit (depending on whether the hydraulic lever is on the cylinder or on a panel)-the lines are led right by the traveller controls. Since the mast is nice and bendy on this boat, the block system has plenty of power.

The 33RH is a push-the production mast is pretty stiff (my 33 was the prototype with a super thin mast and we never considered hydraulics), so an argument can be made either way-you would need a lot of purchase without hydraulics, but it is faster and the main trimmer can adjust it without moving (advantage). On the other hand, if mostly cruising, the hydraulic cylinder is clean and simple.

For a 38, most go with hydraulics, but again, if I raced much I would really consider a good purchase system for speed of adjustment. If I did mostly cruising, hydraulics for sure.

Today's purchase systems are very powerful and you should not need a particularly strong person to operate them.

S

 

[rwthomas1]

FWIW, my E38 came with a Navtec hydraulic unit on the backstay. I had to have it rebuilt and that was about $300, IIRC. The mast is not particularly flexible however it is nice to be able to control the headstay sag for the varying conditions and it does make a difference in the draft on the main despite the stiff stick. I like it and would recommend it if you have the finances to spend. RT