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Surveyor, Rigger, Engine inspection, Sail Loft

GregB

Member II
Fellow PNW'ers - We just successfully completed negotiations with Seacraft Yacht Sales on a 1987 E32-3 (Currently named the Midwatch). We now have 21 days for a demonstration sail and any and all inspections that we want to do. She looks to be in good shape to my eye - but my eyes are inexperienced so we are at the very least going to have a survey with a haul out and possibly a rigging inspection and an engine inspection depending on what the surveyor has to say.

We got a list of surveyors etc. from Max at Seacraft (Who seems like a great guy BTW) but I am looking for your suggestions to narrow it down.

Your thoughts and comments please?!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One of the very helpful "regulars" on the NW sailing list, Cascadia, is Wayne Gilham.
(http://www.sailcascadia.org/ )

Might want to give him a call.
He also working at a surveyors booth at the show right now.

Wayne Gilham, S.A.
FlowDesign Marine Surveying
cell: 253 318 9873

I have not used his services, but other boaters in your area recommend him highly.

Loren
 

GregB

Member II
He is "a contendah"

Thanks Loren - Wayne is definitely in the running. We met at the boat show (in fact he got me discounted tix) and he seemed nice and very informed. My only hesitation - Everyone (else) I ask points to the same organization: Reisner McEwan & Assoc.

Fortunately, we have a test sail first so I can put off this decision a week or so.

We bought new foulies at the boat show so that gives you an idea of where my head is at for better or worse!


One of the very helpful "regulars" on the NW sailing list, Cascadia, is Wayne Gilham.
(http://www.sailcascadia.org/ )

Might want to give him a call.
He also working at a surveyors booth at the show right now.

Wayne Gilham, S.A.
FlowDesign Marine Surveying
cell: 253 318 9873

I have not used his services, but other boaters in your area recommend him highly.

Loren
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Since I've spent the past year "perfecting" a 32-3, allow me to list for you a few things to look at (carefully). None is a big deal. But even the best surveyors can only give one afternoon's experienced look, and they are not in the business of listing all the stuff likely to come up with any 80's-era boat.

--Pedestal, engine controls on the pedestal, steering linkages, radial (quadrant), steering cable sheaves. It is fairly common for the base of the aluminum pedestal to suffer very bad corrosion, which is not an easy fix. If the steering system is by Yacht Specialties/Merriman, they are long out of business and parts are scarce. If it;s a YS pedestal, the wheel nut probably says "YS".

--Rudder tube and packing gland. The tube houses the rudder post. The packing gland sits on top of it and prevents water entering under power or sail. The bronze gland should make a good seal with the tube. A leak there only occurs while under way, notably when under power at 6 knots. Check this after you return from the sea trial. Remove engine compartment siding and crawl head first into the after berth.

--Main Hatches, opening ports and fixed lights (glass windows). If original the hatches are probably crazed--replacements are expensive if you cant live with the old ones.. Check the veneer under and around the other portholes and windows. If the veneer is discolored or wet or crumbling the ports leak and need to be removed and rebedded, and possibly replaced.

--Cabin sole (meaning the cabin floor). Expect varnished teak and holly plywood installed in several sections. Can this be refinished or is it ruined? If ruined, tends to be expensive to replace.

--Cushions and upholstery. The originals may well still be fine, or may have been replaced with new by now. But unacceptable cushions/foam is a very expensive deal, and there are about 15 cushios on the boat.

--Diesel. There are several upgrades due this era of boat. The new type alternator bracket goes under the alternator--the old one goes over it. Under mean an upgrade was accomplished. In the cockpit, see if there is an ammeter next to the tachometer. If so, there is a wiring fix due in the future. These and other electrical upgrades are not a big deal, but will wind up on your list if you become owner. It would be nice to hear the surveyor say, "lots of electrical upgrades on this boat."

All this probably sounds awful, but it isn't. A boat with all these issues might still be a fine boat--but the needs would have to be accounted for in the price.

YOu can see some of these fixes in detail on the Thelonious blog of this forum.

Cheers,
Christian
 
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GregB

Member II
Can I be your "manatee"?

All right my friend - I need a mentor! I am electing you if you will have me. I do know that a manatee is some sort of sea cow that gets run over a lot in the keys, but I couldn't find any good term for "one who is being mentored." (And I am a bit of a sea cow...)

I THINK the midwatch has great bones and has certainly not been neglected, nor has she had any upgrades or "perfecting" like Theo.

I think I have read every one of your posts on this site - they inspire and scare me in equal measure. I do find myself in LA on occasion for (monkey) business, and I would love to look you up and have a look at Theloneus if you'll indulge me. Of course I will show up with a bottle of your favorite juice - just good gentlemanly manners.

Speaking of inspired and scared - That is where we sit on the "midwatch". Tomorrow is our "test sail". I am assuming it will all go well. It is going to be light winds so we won't learn much beyond motoring characteristics, sight lines etc. Then I am going to hire the surveyor that Loren recommended (because he too knows his stuff!) and forward your tips to him directly since re-bedding and repacking glands on rudder tubes are well beyond my (current) skill set.

As we finalize the deal assuming all goes well, it would be helpful to have a budget gut check on some of the projects that you are outlining below. I know DIY can lower the costs and my mileage may vary. I am just trying to get a rounded to the nearest thousand kind of idea . Have a look below.


Since I've spent the past year "perfecting" a 32-3, allow me to list for you a few things to look at (carefully). None is a big deal. But even the best surveyors can only give one afternoon's experienced look, and they are not in the business of listing all the stuff likely to come up with any 80's-era boat.

--Pedestal, engine controls on the pedestal, steering linkages, radial (quadrant), steering cable sheaves. It is fairly common for the base of the aluminum pedestal to suffer very bad corrosion, which is not an easy fix. If the steering system is by Yacht Specialties/Merriman, they are long out of business and parts are scarce. If it;s a YS pedestal, the wheel nut probably says "YS".

And so, This no doubt leads to the purchase of an entirely new pedestal system if you can't get parts. I am guessing this could run $2,000.

--Rudder tube and packing gland. The tube houses the rudder post. The packing gland sits on top of it and prevents water entering under power or sail. The bronze gland should make a good seal with the tube. A leak there only occurs while under way, notably when under power at 6 knots. Check this after you return from the sea trial. Remove engine compartment siding and crawl head first into the after berth.

Haul out, reglass etc etc - not a lot in parts but maybe $1,000 for this?

--Main Hatches, opening ports and fixed lights (glass windows). If original the hatches are probably crazed--replacements are expensive if you cant live with the old ones.. Check the veneer under and around the other portholes and windows. If the veneer is discolored or wet or crumbling the ports leak and need to be removed and rebedded, and possibly replaced.

Just pulling another number out of this air, but maybe $2000 for this job? No damage currently visible.

--Cabin sole (meaning the cabin floor). Expect varnished teak and holly plywood installed in several sections. Can this be refinished or is it ruined? If ruined, tends to be expensive to replace.

Looks good to the naked eye.

--Cushions and upholstery. The originals may well still be fine, or may have been replaced with new by now. But unacceptable cushions/foam is a very expensive deal, and there are about 15 cushions on the boat.


Yep - they are pretty tired. I am not sure if they ALL need to be replaced but certainly some of 'em. I am guessing about $5,000 if we did the whole thing at once (ouch).

--Diesel. There are several upgrades due this era of boat. The new type alternator bracket goes under the alternator--the old one goes over it. Under mean an upgrade was accomplished. In the cockpit, see if there is an ammeter next to the tachometer. If so, there is a wiring fix due in the future. These and other electrical upgrades are not a big deal, but will wind up on your list if you become owner. It would be nice to hear the surveyor say, "lots of electrical upgrades on this boat."

This one is a bit of a wildcard -probably some done, some not - Lets throw another $1,000 into the budget.

All this probably sounds awful, but it isn't. A boat with all these issues might still be a fine boat--but the needs would have to be accounted for in the price.

You forgot the sails - I am assuming they are still good but if not - more $$$.

You can see some of these fixes in detail on the Thelonious blog of this forum.

Cheers,
Christian

So I just threw out another 10K in "heavy maintenance". It doesn't need to all happen at once of course, but over the near future. (Please correct me regarding $$ if I am all wet). Of course this kind of thing accounts for the variations in purchase price on these boats. (eg: even the good ones run from $25K - $35K depending on how much of this has been done and electronics included). I am trying to go into this with my sea cow eyes wide open. I think we have negotiated a decent price on the boat (mid 20s...). Thoughts?

fair winds!

Greg

PS - Assuming we do this deal, and you are ever in Seattle, definitely look me up!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Price of boat sounds good.

Your estimated fix-up prices are in the ball park for full retail, but with Forum help you'll never pay that.

Sails, rigging, damage history and so on--pretty much same for all boats.

Assume the sails are OK, OK being a flexible standard. New main and genoa are about 3K each at the low end. That can wait.
 
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