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Buying a Canadian Ericson for the USA
- Thread starter jim239
- Start date
Customs Duty has been zero for a number of years AFAIK, but I did import a Canadian-built Niagara 26, in 1983. At that ancient time in history I had to pay duty when I checked in with US Customs at Pt Angeles.
They looked at my formal bill of sale and check our ID and that was all we needed. Well, that and my check for $900.
Given that I had to create a title in Oregon, I did have to write a couple of supplemental letters to the Oregon Marine Board before I was done. I had the proof of purchase and a current survey. What they initially did not understand was the boat did not already have a paper title from BC because (in that era) smaller boats were not required to have one in BC.
Once they understood that the boat was not stolen and looked over my paperwork (again?) they created a new Oregon title. (They are understandably Very cautious about creating a new title for any watercraft that might be stolen... )
We owned that fine boat for ten years.
Nowadays I would check with the Oregon Marine Board first. Other than proving that you are the legit new owner, I doubt that creating an Oregon title would be complicated at all for a US-built Ericson. When you call, whether it's to the OMB or Customs, do write down the name and title of whoever you talk to. If you have the HIN, the OMB can tell you if it was ever previously registered here, too.
Regards,
Loren
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supersailor
Contributing Partner
Canadian Ericson
I bought a Canadian Ericson 34-2 in Victoria last June. Getting it back to the States was easy. The Canadian Brokers are used to boats flowing across the border both ways. A Customs Broker must be used ($550). International delivery must be taken unless you want to pay the 14% Canadian tax. I have some tricks on that. I had to pay the Washington sales tax. Customs was cleared in Port Angeles. The biggest problem is if you want to document the boat. The Canadians don't title their boats so it is most helpful if the boat has been previously documented in the states. Mine had been. The boat had been in Everett then Portland for most of its life The Canadian owner bought it in Portland. The Documentation process still took over 10 months. The Coast Guard is utterly unresponsive. Worst agency that I have ever worked with.
Do not buy a foreign built boat that has never been documented in the States. You will not be able to document it.
If you want to pursue this option, give me a call at 360-477-4619 and we can discuss the process.
Bob Morrison
E-34, Terra Nova
Port Angeles
I bought a Canadian Ericson 34-2 in Victoria last June. Getting it back to the States was easy. The Canadian Brokers are used to boats flowing across the border both ways. A Customs Broker must be used ($550). International delivery must be taken unless you want to pay the 14% Canadian tax. I have some tricks on that. I had to pay the Washington sales tax. Customs was cleared in Port Angeles. The biggest problem is if you want to document the boat. The Canadians don't title their boats so it is most helpful if the boat has been previously documented in the states. Mine had been. The boat had been in Everett then Portland for most of its life The Canadian owner bought it in Portland. The Documentation process still took over 10 months. The Coast Guard is utterly unresponsive. Worst agency that I have ever worked with.
Do not buy a foreign built boat that has never been documented in the States. You will not be able to document it.
If you want to pursue this option, give me a call at 360-477-4619 and we can discuss the process.
Bob Morrison
E-34, Terra Nova
Port Angeles
Canadian Ericson to USA via rendezvous
The only wrinkle I can think of is that you have to stop by the Ericson Rendezvous June 28/29 at Maple Bay, BC, on your way to Oregon.
See you there!
Helga and Joe
The only wrinkle I can think of is that you have to stop by the Ericson Rendezvous June 28/29 at Maple Bay, BC, on your way to Oregon.
See you there!
Helga and Joe
Thanks Helga and Joe, that could happen. The boat is in Sidney so you may know of Blue Star. I would love to keep the boat up there for a while until I have to bring it back.The only wrinkle I can think of is that you have to stop by the Ericson Rendezvous June 28/29 at Maple Bay, BC, on your way to Oregon.
See you there!
Helga and Joe
I am going to try and get up there soon to see it. Do you know a good surveyor
Buying Canadian Ericson
We have only been in Victoria for the last year, so we aren't up to date on everyone around here, but a friend gave us the names of Total Boat Marine Surveyors - Kelly Thody or another chap named Ken Rorison They all have their pros and cons. Please send me a private message if you want more info.
Thanks Helga and Joe, that could happen. The boat is in Sidney so you may know of Blue Star. I would love to keep the boat up there for a while until I have to bring it back.
I am going to try and get up there soon to see it. Do you know a good surveyor?
We have only been in Victoria for the last year, so we aren't up to date on everyone around here, but a friend gave us the names of Total Boat Marine Surveyors - Kelly Thody or another chap named Ken Rorison They all have their pros and cons. Please send me a private message if you want more info.
supersailor
Contributing Partner
Canadian Purchase
Don't forget that you will owe a 14% tax if you take a Canadian delivery. This is why all of us take an "International" delivery. Also, you cannot Document it while it resides "Overseas". You may want to keep it in Port Angeles, Sequim, Port Townsend or the San Juans until the documentation process is complete. I do have hints on how to make that better but count on 5 months minimum. Its your Government hard at work. Once Documented, you are good to go anywhere in the world. While the process is going on, the Coast Guard has no tolerance for deviations. After a couple of months, the Coast Guard has been issuing a temporary Certificate. At that point, you can visit Canada but I would not do a mooring on a more permanent basis until the Documentation is complete.
Also, be aware that Washington has limitations on the length of time out of state boats can stay in Washington waters without a State sticker If you exceed the time and have to get one, Washington will require you to pay sales tax on the boat. Also, you will need something from Oregon showing that it is from there. Customs has been cracking down hard on boats that don't have a state sicker when they return from Canada. The fine is stiff.
Just cover your bases before delivery.
I used a Sidney surveyor for my survey, Arthur Webb, Lands End Marine Surveyors. I do not recommend him. Check with your Insurance Company before you do the survey. They only accept certain Canadian Surveyors. Pick the wrong one and you will have to do the survey again to get Insurance.
Good Luck
Bob Morrison
Don't forget that you will owe a 14% tax if you take a Canadian delivery. This is why all of us take an "International" delivery. Also, you cannot Document it while it resides "Overseas". You may want to keep it in Port Angeles, Sequim, Port Townsend or the San Juans until the documentation process is complete. I do have hints on how to make that better but count on 5 months minimum. Its your Government hard at work. Once Documented, you are good to go anywhere in the world. While the process is going on, the Coast Guard has no tolerance for deviations. After a couple of months, the Coast Guard has been issuing a temporary Certificate. At that point, you can visit Canada but I would not do a mooring on a more permanent basis until the Documentation is complete.
Also, be aware that Washington has limitations on the length of time out of state boats can stay in Washington waters without a State sticker If you exceed the time and have to get one, Washington will require you to pay sales tax on the boat. Also, you will need something from Oregon showing that it is from there. Customs has been cracking down hard on boats that don't have a state sicker when they return from Canada. The fine is stiff.
Just cover your bases before delivery.
I used a Sidney surveyor for my survey, Arthur Webb, Lands End Marine Surveyors. I do not recommend him. Check with your Insurance Company before you do the survey. They only accept certain Canadian Surveyors. Pick the wrong one and you will have to do the survey again to get Insurance.
Good Luck
Bob Morrison
supersailor
Contributing Partner
Canadian Purchase
Jim, I'm having trouble making posts at the moment. Please e-mail me at rwm91@hotmail.com and we can get into a little more detail.
Bob Morrison
Jim, I'm having trouble making posts at the moment. Please e-mail me at rwm91@hotmail.com and we can get into a little more detail.
Bob Morrison
Taking Delivery and paying (?) Taxes
As for going up and down the Washington coast, we Portlanders do it all the time. You do have to watch your weather. I have done that trip in my former Niagara 26 (smallest boat) and a Valiant 40 was the largest boat. I have about 25 or 30 deliveries total over the decades.
One of the best 'rides' was on an Ericson 32-3. That hull, part of a series of similar designs in the 80's by Mr King, has a soft easy motion at sea and was very solid when we got bounced around a bit going out of the mouth of the Straits and again just north of the Columbia bar.
That comment about taking delivery and owing a tax must be quite a new wrinkle. Wow.
When we took delivery in front of the Empress (!) I checked with CN Customs to see if I needed any sort of 'form' to take with me across the Straits to Pt Angeles where I would check in with US Customs and they told me nothing was needed at all to show that I was leaving, and basically to have a safe trip.
Of course the wind blew about 25 kts, seas came up steep and close together , and it actually was quite a day's adventure for me and my buddy..... (we had raced my Ranger 20 for five years but that was my first BIG boat.)
As for Washington excise tax, you'll have to check with Olympia for current details. I know lots of Oregonians that keep their boats in the Sound and count on luck to keep them from being ticketed... evidently enforcement is very hit-and-miss. IIRC you get 60 days, and then can apply and pay a fee ($50. ?) for another 60 days, and then do that one more time for a total of six months max.
**Editorial Comment: pretty frickin dumb of them to drive Oregonians and Canadians away, since the more we boat there the more groceries and fuel that we might buy. I might be wrong (again, today..?) but I do not believe that they tax all those out-of-staters with RV's that roam around Washington for lots of months.
Anyone know? Class? Bueller?!
BTW, when you get hard information from these various authorities, PLEASE let us know.
Much appreciated.
Regards,
Loren
supersailor
Contributing Partner
Canadian Purchase
Loren, I agree, our wonderful Governments have come to look at the rich boaters as cash cows to be milked at will. We have been fighting the 60 day limit for awhile. When a 150 footer is chased out of state, a lot of cash leaves with her. These boats moor in Canada instead. The fools in Olympia still think that they are going to collect multimillions in excise taxes. Instead, they chase all that money away. No one ever said politicians have any requirement to be intelligent. As far as the Canadians go, they have taken the stance that if possession is taken in Canada, it is a Canadian purchase and subject to Canadian taxes. As a result, everyone takes possession just across the boundary line and Canada collects nothing. One more layer of paper, some additional hassle, a few more government employees and no gain. Only government can get away with it.
Bob
PS. My inaugural crossing with Terra Nova from Victoria was in 25 to 29 knot winds hard on the wind. The 34 shouldered the seas impressively.
Loren, I agree, our wonderful Governments have come to look at the rich boaters as cash cows to be milked at will. We have been fighting the 60 day limit for awhile. When a 150 footer is chased out of state, a lot of cash leaves with her. These boats moor in Canada instead. The fools in Olympia still think that they are going to collect multimillions in excise taxes. Instead, they chase all that money away. No one ever said politicians have any requirement to be intelligent. As far as the Canadians go, they have taken the stance that if possession is taken in Canada, it is a Canadian purchase and subject to Canadian taxes. As a result, everyone takes possession just across the boundary line and Canada collects nothing. One more layer of paper, some additional hassle, a few more government employees and no gain. Only government can get away with it.
Bob
PS. My inaugural crossing with Terra Nova from Victoria was in 25 to 29 knot winds hard on the wind. The 34 shouldered the seas impressively.
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TS Farley
Member II
Hi Jim,
I just used Kenneth Rorison last week for an insurance survey in Sidney at Westport Marina. Ken has been around for many years and has a reputation for being exceedingly thorough. I can verify that his reputation is well earned! Some people feel he is too "nit-picky" but if you are the prospective buyer, his report is gold.
Good luck!
Vivian
I just used Kenneth Rorison last week for an insurance survey in Sidney at Westport Marina. Ken has been around for many years and has a reputation for being exceedingly thorough. I can verify that his reputation is well earned! Some people feel he is too "nit-picky" but if you are the prospective buyer, his report is gold.
Good luck!
Vivian
Portland
Thanks for your replies Loren, One of my berthing options would be to keep my boat in Portland as opposed to the Oregon coast for the winter. How much do they charge for dock space in and around Portland?As for going up and down the Washington coast, we Portlanders do it all the time. You do have to watch your weather. I have done that trip in my former Niagara 26 (smallest boat) and a Valiant 40 was the largest boat. I have about 25 or 30 deliveries total over the decades.
One of the best 'rides' was on an Ericson 32-3. That hull, part of a series of similar designs in the 80's by Mr King, has a soft easy motion at sea and was very solid when we got bounced around a bit going out of the mouth of the Straits and again just north of the Columbia bar.
That comment about taking delivery and owing a tax must be quite a new wrinkle. Wow.
When we took delivery in front of the Empress (!) I checked with CN Customs to see if I needed any sort of 'form' to take with me across the Straits to Pt Angeles where I would check in with US Customs and they told me nothing was needed at all to show that I was leaving, and basically to have a safe trip.
Of course the wind blew about 25 kts, seas came up steep and close together , and it actually was quite a day's adventure for me and my buddy..... (we had raced my Ranger 20 for five years but that was my first BIG boat.)
As for Washington excise tax, you'll have to check with Olympia for current details. I know lots of Oregonians that keep their boats in the Sound and count on luck to keep them from being ticketed... evidently enforcement is very hit-and-miss. IIRC you get 60 days, and then can apply and pay a fee ($50. ?) for another 60 days, and then do that one more time for a total of six months max.
**Editorial Comment: pretty frickin dumb of them to drive Oregonians and Canadians away, since the more we boat there the more groceries and fuel that we might buy. I might be wrong (again, today..?) but I do not believe that they tax all those out-of-staters with RV's that roam around Washington for lots of months.
Anyone know? Class? Bueller?!
BTW, when you get hard information from these various authorities, PLEASE let us know.
Much appreciated.
Regards,
Loren
It sounds like a nice Idea to have a place close to the city for the winter. I haven't gone up to see the 39 yet and after reading some of the new blog entries I'm not convinced I want such a big boat.
Did you feel more comfortable or safer on the 40' Valiant than the 32-3 ? If you were going to sail off shore much would you choose a bigger boat?
Thanks for your input!
Jim
Cost, Size, and Speed
Slip cost will vary a Lot. You generally pay more for one at a private marina and least at a member-owned yacht club moorage.
Convenience has a price, too. On the main river, where you motor out for five minutes and start sailing, it's more than it is miles down the Multnomah Channel where the sailing starts a half hour to an hour from your dock.
Distance to your home, especially in heavy traffic, must be factored in.
You can check into rates on line or by phone at places like http://www.columbiacrossings.com/ and http://www.rpmarina.com/ and the St Helens marina (don't know the URL).
The member-maintained YC that I belong to is much less expensive, but participation and work hours are required as well as a few $.
"Choices and Options" as the saying goes.
Safer? Comfort? Hmmmm..... Actually I have always felt safe on any well built and maintained boat, but have to say that once they get to 30 feet or longer (arbitrary, but a round number) there is just more stability and it's easier to move around on deck. Also, note that speed is a Direct result of DWL -- and speed under sail or power is a Good thing.
Also, as you will observe, the sea condition gets less-hostile as the boat get larger/longer.
Best ocean trip ever was this February going to Hawaii in four days on a 900 foot cruise ship! Fifteen foot seas were about as bothersome for that monster as half-foot seas are for our 34 foot boat!
Fun discussion.
Cheers,
Loren
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