2018 Rendezvous - Charts, Customs, other considerations?

[Frank Langer]

Hi Bruce,

The Atlas you showed in the link above from Amazon is NOT the one I would recommend, nor is it worth the money in my opinion. The one I suggest is put out by the Canadian Hydrographic Service/Government of Canada. It is listed among all their charts as #3313, and is a book of charts, about 18" x 24", bound with rings so the pages turn over easily. It still costs $88 Canadian and is available for order on the site: www.charts.gc.ca

It is also widely available at chandleries in Canada, though depends on their current inventory.

For cruising guides, you don't need one if just coming to the rendezvous and then returning to the US, as the navigation is fairly straight forward if you follow charts or chartplotter. However, if you are planning on staying longer to cruise the Gulf Islands (they are wonderful!), then either the DreamSpeaker or the Vasilopolous are well-regarded here. There is also a different book titled something like Best Anchorages in the Gulf Islands, and another book called Cruising the Gulf Islands that are also good. I'm not so fond of the Douglas book as it has much less detail and isn't really helpful. There is also a Waggonner guide that isn't bad, but is not as detailed as the first two. All of mine are on the boat, and not accessible at the moment, so can't give you exact titles today. But I will be going to the boat this week, and can provide more exact information then if you like.

I hope this helps, but ask other questions if you need more info.

Frank

 

[supersailor]

Canada requires paper charts. If boarded, they look upon you with great disfavor. You don't want to be looked on with great disfavor by them. You should have paper charts anyway in case your chart plotter malfunctions. You wouldn't want to bounce off the myriad of unmarked rocks in the islands and on the east coast of Vancouver Island. I have and it's not fun.

 

[Frank Langer]

I agree with Bob/Supersailor that you will need paper charts in addition to any electronic GPS/Chartplotter, as there are many islands both large and small (makes for great anchorages!!) and yes, there are some rocks here, most of them well charted. The chartbook that I mentioned above (#3313) has both small and large scale charts, with inserts of some of the more common bays and marinas, so it's much more handy than simply one of the charts like 3441, even though this one covers the area.

Frank

 

[bgary]

paper charts in addition to any electronic

100% agree. I always have the appropriate paper charts on board, even when just putting around the Sound. Besides it being the law (in Canada, the US seems to have rescinded that), it's belt and suspenders for me: I have GPS/chartplotter with the appropriate charts loaded, if that fails I have an iPad with iSailor and the appropriate charts loaded, and if that fails I have paper.

And, yes, thanks for the info on #3313. I've ordered a copy and looking forward to receiving it. Sorry for the confusion, above, the one I linked on Amazon was one I was NOT impressed with. I've removed the link so nobody else thinks that's a good chartbook.

Bruce

 

[bgary]

#3313. I've ordered a copy

Welllllll, crap.

Just spoke with a lovely woman who was calling to let me know that my order for #3313 was going to be canceled.

She said that CHS has pulled it pending an update, and no ETA on the update. Called a couple of other places (Captain's Nautical, etc) and they said the same thing, adding that they'd heard updating #3313 was a low priority for CHS, and it might not happen for a year or so.

So.... anyone out there know where (US or Canada) I can find a copy on the shelf somewhere? Or where I can find a used one? have already checked Amazon and eBay, no joy so far.

Worst case, if you have one and are not planning to use it for a few months... any interest in letting me borrow yours for a bit?

Bruce

 

[toddster]

Hmm... I have an Evergreen Pacific Cruising Atlas that appears to be largely reproductions of 3313 on the Canadian side. Each page stamped with a notice that it Does Not Suffice for Canadian chart carriage requirements. (Is this the book discussed above that was deemed inadequate?) Good Grief, I've had this since 1991. Anyway, there appears to be a newer version available on their website. I also use their Columbia River Atlas, which is basically half-sized reproductions of the NOAA charts. Though I have since collected most of the real charts - at least the ones downstream from me.

 

[supersailor]

West Marine carries the chart pack if you want one. That's where I got mine. Try online.

 

[bgary]

West Marine carries the chart pack if you want one. That's where I got mine. Try online.

First place I checked. They show it as "discontinued"
Captain's Nautical said they don't expect it to have it "this year"
Paradise Cay said they had it, took my order, then canceled it, saying they can't get it
Seabreeze says "out of stock, no ETA"
Landfall says "no idea when we'll have them"

I'll work my way through the list of CHS dealers as time permits, but... all the "easy" choices seem to be coming up dry.

 

[footrope]

Small pleasurre craft may be exempt from carrying paper charts?

I'm not sure I'm reading this 1995 regulation correctly, but check this link and the included sections. The 2001 Act references the 1995 Act for charts. What do you think? The refusal to sell the latest charts, however flawed, thousands of which may be out there in use, seems short-sighted but this regulation may fix that ahead of time. Why isn't there a re-publish date or a specific reason for the removal of the charts from the shelves? I like the 3313 publication and have one from 2015. It has a lot of good information about the region and probably would help you get to sleep if read in the evening.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-95-149/page-1.html#h-6

Scroll up for this:
"Exceptions

3.1 (1) Subsection 4(1) does not apply if the owner and the master of a ship are unable to obtain the charts, documents or publications, required by these Regulations in respect of the area in which the ship is being navigated, at any place at which the ship calls."

Section 4:
"4 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the master and owner of every ship shall have on board, in respect of each area in which the ship is to be navigated, the most recent editions of the charts, documents and publications that are required to be used under sections 5 and 6.

(2) The master and owner of a ship of less than 100 tons are not required to have on board the charts, documents and publications referred to in subsection (1) if the person in charge of navigation has sufficient knowledge of the following information, such that safe and efficient navigation in the area where the ship is to be navigated is not compromised:

(a) the location and character of charted

(i) shipping routes,

(ii) lights, buoys and marks, and

(iii) navigational hazards; and

(b) the prevailing navigational conditions, taking into account such factors as tides, currents, ice and weather patterns."

 

[bgary]

... if the owner and the master of a ship are unable to obtain the charts,

Yeah.

My reading of the 'chart carriage requirements' is that I must have paper charts on board, and at an appropriate scale for navigation in the areas I'll be in. At minimum, I'll buy a copy of 3461 and 3462 to have on the boat. Beyond that I have the full spectrum of Canada e-charts on the chartplotter, on the iPad, on the phone, etc....

I wouldn't claim that I have sufficient knowledge of the area to qualify for the "not required to have them" clause (laughing)

Bruce

 

[supersailor]

Agree with Bruce. You may want a few more if you want to "putz" around the Gulf Islands a bit.

 

[bgary]

Update on #3313. I called the Canadian Hydrographic Service today.

They said #3313 has been pulled from circulation, pending an update, and there is no ETA for the update. They said it would likely be "at least 6 months", indicating that they are having a "hard time getting the data they need from BC".

Hmmm

I asked: "If I understand correctly, #3313 is essentially subsets of other CHS charts. Wouldn't updating #3313 simply be a matter of getting updated copies of the 'parent' charts"? He laughed and said "you'd think that, wouldn't you..."

Oh well.

=====================================


Time for a topic-shift.... "fun with flags"

According to my ancient copy of Chapman's, when visiting another country I should fly

-- a US flag (not the yachting ensign) on the stern

-- a courtesy flag for the host country, flown from the starboard rigging

Anything else? Does anyone carry signal flags for anything? Do I need a Q-flag while I'm waiting for customs clearance?

'cuz, you know, I'm all about the etiquette...

 

[Frank Langer]

Hi Bruce,

Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time obtaining the chartbook 3313. It is very handy, but not essential. If you can take a look at one that someone else has, you'll see why it's recommended. But if you can't get it, there are other charts that will still get you here.

As far as flags, yes you will want to fly your US flag (but not too big, ie. should not drag in the water :0). As well, a smaller Canadian flag on the starboard spreader is an appreciated courtesy when sailing in Canada. No other flags are needed, though if you are a member of a yacht club, you can also fly that burgee if you like.

Mainly, Canadians like to see a well cared for sailboat, good seamanship, care for our environment, politeness and courtesy, enjoying yourself in Canada and ending many of our sentences with eh. :nerd:

Frank

 

[bgary]

politeness and courtesy

Wait, what? I have to be polite *and* courteous?!?!

 

[Frank Langer]

Only once you cross the border.
Frank

 

[footrope]

Canadian entry number

Don't forget to post your Canadian entry number in a window where the Canadian patrols can see it. If you forget, or they can't find it, you might get waked up very early in the morning.

Regarding the charts - don't go up there without appropriate charts. I was looking for a loophole and I think Section 4(2) is as far as you can get. If you run aground up there they probably won't believe you meet that section.

Happy holidays and have a great rendezvous everyone!

 

[Teranodon]

...

Mainly, Canadians like to see a well cared for sailboat, good seamanship, care for our environment.... :nerd:

Canadians are very, very nice people, but I wish they had more marinas with pumpout stations, eh.

 

[Frank Langer]

Yes. They are coming gradually, but we could definitely use more. Our Nanaimo Yacht Club just installed one this summer, so that's progress. There are others, but still not readily available.
Frank

 

[bgary]

#3313 - a treasure trove!

Was up in Bellingham to visit a friend and happened across a marine hardware store called LFS.

Poked my head in out of curiosity... and found they have 3 of the CHS 3313 chart-books on the shelf (plus about a half-dozen 3312s)

I'm set, but if anyone else around here is looking for one, let me know.

Bruce

 

[Loren Beach]

Was up in Bellingham to visit a friend and happened across a marine hardware store called LFS.

Poked my head in out of curiosity... and found they have 3 of the CHS 3313 chart-books on the shelf (plus about a half-dozen 3312s)

I'm set, but if anyone else around here is looking for one, let me know.

Bruce

Thanks!
I will take one. What do I have to do next?
Send you money? Send them money? Call them?