32-200 Alder Barbour cold machine refrigerator box - operation

[frosero7744]

Hey everyone. Since I’ve had my boat I’ve never used the refrigerator. At survey it was noted that it worked but needed to be charged. I’ve operated fine for years with a cooler. I’m spending time more frequently and longer durations so i had it charged back up. The evap get cold and icy now. My first try was leaving it on overnight and it eventually shutoff with the thermostat very low. It still cycled pretty often. The space is quite large so it takes a while a cool. 6cuft I think.

what should my expectations be? Once on for a day, it should cycle a several times in an hour but not constantly still right?
The insulation is quite old, is there an easy improvement here? Read some about adding some dense foam and new seals, and that seems logical.

I searched in the forums but found mostly installing new ones. Thanks!

 

[David Grimm]

I have one in my 38-200. I love it. Works great. Draws about 5 amps. I leave it on all season. Even when I'm not on the boat. Who wants to get to the boat for warm beer? It works best when left on all the time. This way it cycles less because the food and drinks are really cold.

 

[Loren Beach]

I searched in the forums but found mostly installing new ones.

One reason for that is that the efficiency of the new ones continuously improves. Also, often cost of professional diagnosis and repair is much more that replacement. Further, the ones on the market now are well designed for installation by amateurs. I have installed two "ice box refrigeration conversions" on our boat since the 90's , and it's not too difficult for the average owner; and I am probably less than average!
We have a small Isotherm, from this company-- https://www.suremarineservice.com/Galley/Refrigeration/

 

[Christian Williams]

Icebox/Refrigeration on Ericson Yachts [Master Thread]

For E32-3 Refrigeration specifically see this thread We ussually stay on our boat just for the weekends. The orginal thermal fridge that came with the boat just doesn't work. For years because we have just not wanted to pump out the cooler each weekend we have brought food on the boat and...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[peaman]

I replaced the original system in my 1987 E32 with a new Isotherm flat plate system a couple of years ago and it works great. I also have a Victron battery monitor which is useful not only for watching battery capacity, but also for determining exactly how much amperage each item on the boat uses. Maybe worth noting that I am retired from a 40 year career in HVAC and refrigeration engineering.

The ice box on my boat is around 2 feet deep. I have two thermometers I keep in the box so I can check temperatures at the top shelf and at the bottom level. The difference is typically near 10 degrees, which should be around 40F or so at the top shelf (fresh foods) and near freezing at the bottom level (frozen items). Figure out exactly what setting on the thermostat will maintain suitable temperatures, and leave it there. Setting it lower "to cool down faster" will only cause the compressor to run longer and with higher amps. The usual guidance of minimizing access to the ice box applies. If you don't have lots of stuff to keep in the reefer, you can add a few jugs of water which will help to stabilize the temperature by acting as a flywheel, which will minimize cycling of the compressor.

My wife is an excellent cook and is VERY particular about food safety and proper temperature control, so I know if she is happy with the reefer, it's all good. We partially stock the reefer the day before a planned cruise, so we can use shore power to get the box and contents cooled down. Then, the refrigeration stays on continuously. We have found that when anchored out, we can go two days between engine runs for recharging batteries, which is nice. Also, not having to think about whether we need to turn the refrigeration on or off. Just let the thermostat do its job.

 

[frosero7744]

Okay. At first glance Isotherm has two good flat plate options. 1 for up to 6cuft and another for up to 14cu. The $ difference is about a hundred bucks and gets you twice the cooling.

I havent checked the dimensions but both should fit. There is also a box evap for the 14cuft compressor Instead of flat plate if that solves the dimension issue.

My question is would it be better and good to have the oversized setup? For commercial hvac installations it always seems having things oversized and then running them at a lower level of output is beneficial. Is this one of those situations or is the power consumption the drawback. i guess a quick call to Isotherm Monday would answer the question just thought I’d poke around this braintrust.

 

[Bolo]

I replaced the original system in my 1987 E32 with a new Isotherm flat plate system a couple of years ago and it works great. I also have a Victron battery monitor which is useful not only for watching battery capacity, but also for determining exactly how much amperage each item on the boat uses. Maybe worth noting that I am retired from a 40 year career in HVAC and refrigeration engineering.

The ice box on my boat is around 2 feet deep. I have two thermometers I keep in the box so I can check temperatures at the top shelf and at the bottom level. The difference is typically near 10 degrees, which should be around 40F or so at the top shelf (fresh foods) and near freezing at the bottom level (frozen items). Figure out exactly what setting on the thermostat will maintain suitable temperatures, and leave it there. Setting it lower "to cool down faster" will only cause the compressor to run longer and with higher amps. The usual guidance of minimizing access to the ice box applies. If you don't have lots of stuff to keep in the reefer, you can add a few jugs of water which will help to stabilize the temperature by acting as a flywheel, which will minimize cycling of the compressor.

My wife is an excellent cook and is VERY particular about food safety and proper temperature control, so I know if she is happy with the reefer, it's all good. We partially stock the reefer the day before a planned cruise, so we can use shore power to get the box and contents cooled down. Then, the refrigeration stays on continuously. We have found that when anchored out, we can go two days between engine runs for recharging batteries, which is nice. Also, not having to think about whether we need to turn the refrigeration on or off. Just let the thermostat do its job.

Peaman, I found your posting interesting because I too have a E32-3 (1987 - Hull 722) with an old Adler Barbour which draws about 5 amps when running and it seems to run a lot, especially at anchor or maybe I just notice it more. The original ice box is deep at 2 feet and we find it hard sometimes to find what we want at the bottom. So I've even considered making a false bottom insert (with one drainage hole in it) to shorten the reach to grab stuff and decrease the cubic volume because we don't usually have it loaded up to the top too often. I've also thought that replacing the old Adler Barbour with a flat plate system which would get rid of the box type evaporator that blocks a lot of the access to the frig. and reduce the power demand. Other plans are to add solar panels to extend our anchoring without using the engine to charge batteries. What Isotherm components did you purchase for your upgrade? I think Isotherm also offers a refrigerator control, that you mount outside the box, which gives a reading for the box temperature.

UPDATE: OK, I just looked back at the previous postings that you made on this subject which shows your installation and what components you used. Thanks!

 

[peaman]

Okay. At first glance Isotherm has two good flat plate options. 1 for up to 6cuft and another for up to 14cu. The $ difference is about a hundred bucks and gets you twice the cooling.

I havent checked the dimensions but both should fit. There is also a box evap for the 14cuft compressor Instead of flat plate if that solves the dimension issue.

My question is would it be better and good to have the oversized setup? For commercial hvac installations it always seems having things oversized and then running them at a lower level of output is beneficial. Is this one of those situations or is the power consumption the drawback. i guess a quick call to Isotherm Monday would answer the question just thought I’d poke around this braintrust.

The 14cu unit might be a good choice. But to be clear, that isn't "twice the cooling", because "cubic feet" is not an actual measurement of refrigeration capacity, but is just a guide for compatibility between box size and system. For actual cooling capacity, the best information from the Isotherm catalog is the amps draw for the compressor, which is 6A for the 14cu model 2013 versus 4.5A for the 6cu model 2012. But that's all good! Oversized equipment is generally good only up to a point, and 33% additional capacity as in this case will probably work well. So the choice between the 6cu or the 14cu will come down to cost, physical size of compressor unit, physical size and configuration of the evaporator, and amp load.

 

[Loren Beach]

Regarding the helpful info from Peaman, I recall my discussion with the guys at Sure. They said not to deliberately "over size" the refrigeration capacity. As I recall, the starting point was an accurate measurement of the inside cubic footage of our (admittedly small-ish) ice box. Along with that was our amount of insulation. EY had sprayed foam about an inch thick on the whole outside surface.
I did add insulation to the sides of the box that I could access under the galley counter, and also to the top and lid.

I do not have an Amps gauge measurement to cite, but the fridge runs maybe half the time, and we can anchor out for two days at a time and still start the diesel with ease when getting ready to leave. The voltage stays above 12.2 or 12.3, at its lowest point. Our house bank is a pair of golf cart size flooded batteries.
This is a classic case of YMMV, in my opinion...

Edit: I also added a thin foam gasket around the flange the lid rests on. This helped tremendously in reducing air interchange with the box interor. And, in turn, that hugely reduced the buildup of ice on the evaporator plate. (That buildup of ice reduces the efficiency of the cooling system.)

 

[peaman]

So I've even considered making a false bottom insert (with one drainage hole in it) to shorten the reach to grab stuff and decrease the cubic volume because we don't usually have it loaded up to the top too often.

This could be a really good upgrade for you. Given the "thermal stratification" that I described above, a well-insulated false bottom would effective raise the coldest part up to where you most want it. The coldest part of the box will have the highest thermal losses. An insulated false bottom will reduce the work required by the compressor to keep the lower part cold. I'd suggest soft foam gaskets on the perimeter of your (presumed removable) false bottom, with a minimally sized drain to minimize circulation of cold air into the lower, isolated part.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I have a 35 year old Adler Barbour unit in my Tartan 37 that I have been using for that many years--including a couple years of cruising in Central America more or less constantly. I have had to replace the compressor fan (with a large, more efficient computer fan) and the control unit about 12 years ago, but it has been fine and very reliable for all those years. My main problem is getting things too cold and freezing the stuff at the bottom. At the suggestion of another cruiser, I installed a very small computer fan at the bottom of my box (wired to the compressor fan circuit) to keep the cold from settling there and freezing stuff (works great, stopped the bottom freezing and limited the run and cycle time). I also learned that I needed to plug the drains in the box as the cold runs out through them if you don't according to my physics prof cruising friend. I have found it uses about 3A an hour (the box is well insulated by Tartan and has good fitting top openings) on average--also made sure that the compressor was in a place where it was not hot--it is away from the engine in the lazarette and, in the tropics, I opened this at night or after I ran the engine to provide a cooler environment. -I see a lot of installations where the compressor is situated next to the engine or in a small enclosed space--reefers are trying to get rid of heat (that is how they cool), so this does not work well, no matter how modern or efficient the unit is. I have a 55qt portable cooler/compact compressor unit that is just fine on my 32-200-- I guess it uses less electricity--I only do overnights and a bit of coastal cruising and I like its simplicity and ease of access--the cooler under the chart table was not my idea of a great design feature and I use it for other stuff. FWIW.