35-2 Broken Strut Repair

[colton2399]

When I pulled out my fuel tank I did not, as I recall, see a plate above the glass. I may have some photographs on file of the interior hull under the fuel tank. If there is a backing plate under the cabin sole then it may not be visible.

I am currently in the same location as my boat so I can take a look with a tape measure, but not today since it is about to get dark.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

Yeah it seems like the plate is glassed over so it would probably not be visible.

 

[colton2399]

If the strut is already broken and just hanging from the prop shaft, can you have your diver remove the prop and pull the broken piece off? Assuming the flange somewhat matches the hull and the break, you should be able to use the broken piece to match something from Marine Hardware's catalog.

Can definitely remove the broken piece. I have already sent all the measurements I could of that piece but they say they need to know the mounting plate. Which is not visible until I cut it out.

 

[colton2399]

When I pulled out my fuel tank I did not, as I recall, see a plate above the glass. I may have some photographs on file of the interior hull under the fuel tank. If there is a backing plate under the cabin sole then it may not be visible.

I am currently in the same location as my boat so I can take a look with a tape measure, but not today since it is about to get dark.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[gareth harris]

I have attached three photographs of the interior hull under the fuel tank, and as you can see there is no backing for the strut in this region.

The mounts for the tank that you can see I installed myself because the original tank was loose on the hull.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[Barbixy]

And for budgeting: whenever the coupling and shaft are removed from an old boat it is common to find that both need replacement.

I was considering this one, but after reading this series of posts, I'm probably going to pass. Do you think this is an issue on all Ericsons or just the 35? Would this be a $50k job?

 

[Barbixy]

And for budgeting: whenever the coupling and shaft are removed from an old boat it is common to find that both need replacement.

I was thinking about this one, but after reading this. Not sure I'm up for it. Do you think this is just an issue with the 35s or all Ericsons? Would it be a $50k job at a yard.

 

[Loren Beach]

Do you think this is just an issue with the 35s or all Ericsons?

Starting with the more common problem of a broken strut... A strut can (very occasionally) break on any make or model of boat with a shaft drive. Actually the more common problem is electrolysis which can occur any time a boat is in a marina with improper wiring or just parked too near another boat with improper internal wiring. This would cause several days of work at yard rates.

A friend of ours always kept a lump of zinc hanging over the stern of his sailboat, connected to his boat's ground system, at his slip in Pt Angeles. It was/is common for huge motor yachts to tie up within 100' of his head walk and some of them were leaking current into the water at an alarming rate. (And his sacrificial zinc "fish" would start diminishing immediately!)
He said that sometimes complaints to the port captain who then had to confront the captain/owner more than once were required.

As for the shaft and coupler, it's common for one of those parts or both to need replacement after decades of use. This will depend greatly on how well the old packing was maintained (such that the shaft was not scored) and whether leaks or seeps had allowed sea water to corrode the coupler. Even small amounts of salt water, over time, will corrode the shaft and coupler to the point where it's really difficult to separate them. We changed over to a split coupler design over a decade ago, just to reduce this risk. Even if corrosion had "welded" the two parts into one, the problem would probably be resolved by a mechanic armed with a saber saw in a few hours, followed by replacement with a new trued-up shaft.

BTW, I have to wonder where the reference to $50K for working on the stern gear comes from? That sounds about 10X too much to me. Wow.

 

[Barbixy]

Starting with the more common problem of a broken strut... A strut can (very occasionally) break on any make or model of boat with a shaft drive. Actually the more common problem is electrolysis which can occur any time a boat is in a marina with improper wiring or just parked too near another boat with improper internal wiring. This would cause several days of work at yard rates.

A friend of ours always kept a lump of zinc hanging over the stern of his sailboat, connected to his boat's ground system, at his slip in Pt Angeles. It was/is common for huge motor yachts to tie up within 100' of his head walk and some of them were leaking current into the water at an alarming rate. (And his sacrificial zinc "fish" would start diminishing immediately!)
He said that sometimes complaints to the port captain who then had to confront the captain/owner more than once were required.

As for the shaft and coupler, it's common for one of those parts or both to need replacement after decades of use. This will depend greatly on how well the old packing was maintained (such that the shaft was not scored) and whether leaks or seeps had allowed sea water to corrode the coupler. Even small amounts of salt water, over time, will corrode the shaft and coupler to the point where it's really difficult to separate them. We changed over to a split coupler design over a decade ago, just to reduce this risk. Even if corrosion had "welded" the two parts into one, the problem would probably be resolved by a mechanic armed with a saber saw in a few hours, followed by replacement with a new trued-up shaft.

BTW, I have to wonder where the reference to $50K for working on the stern gear comes from? That sounds about 10X too much to me. Wow.

Thank you. No - I was asking is this strut replacement is a $50k job because I have no idea what it would cost to have a yard do it, or if this job should be a deal breaker. One member said shaft and coupler should/might be replaced at the same time. Another posted it's "deep inside the hull" so the fuel tank and everything in the aft part of the boat might need to be redone.
Also on this boat, seller has no history on the standing rigging or chain plates, so there's that. Did you see the ad I posted? Seller said it was hauled out two years ago, and had the Cutlass bearing replaced. I can do a lot of things mechanically, rebuild pumps, I'm well versed with wiring, etc but this would be beyond my scope of experience and ability.

 

[Christian Williams]

35-3 New Strut [Master Thread]

The haul out was going too well... The keel joint hasn't shown a drop of seepage, the blisters are better than I thought they were going to be, the rudder seems solid, and the engine removal went well. Even the shaft looks good and we're going to shorten it to clean up the gap between the...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Dave G.]

I was asking is this strut replacement is a $50k job

$50k ! Nowhere near that number. If someone quoted that RUN ! I would think maybe 10% of that number, $4-5K but purely a guess as never had work done in your neck of the woods. Also most likely the shaft is bent, unusable. Shafts are not expensive and it would be silly not to replace it along with the coupler.

 

[Barbixy]

$50k ! Nowhere near that number. If someone quoted that RUN ! I would think maybe 10% of that number, $4-5K but purely a guess as never had work done in your neck of the woods. Also most likely the shaft is bent, unusable. Shafts are not expensive and it would be silly not to replace it along with the coupler.

People were talking about difficulty finding or having to fabricate a new strut.
I've been reading all of the posts about the strut replacement. At one point I thought maybe I would just have all that work done, since haul out and bottom paint is pretty straightforward.

With this strut replacement I would have to deal with the workmen at the yard over a period of weeks, through multiple steps in the process where owners on the forum are posting they were overseeing the work and being present through the steps.

And the snipe hunt of finding or having new parts fabricated was also interesting to read about.

I'm not even remotely qualified to do that.

Not to mention most men when they see a woman automatically assume we don't know anything, so we're pretty much told anything to get rid of us. LOL Been there done that. In this case they'd probably be justified. haha.

Also in reviewing the photos when I had more time, this boat showed leaking under the port lights on both sides and the sole looks like it has a place that's coming up, and has been redone at some point with different wood.
I think this is really more than I can take on TBH.

 

[gareth harris]

People were talking about difficulty finding or having to fabricate a new strut.
I've been reading all of the posts about the strut replacement. At one point I thought maybe I would just have all that work done, since haul out and bottom paint is pretty straightforward.

With this strut replacement I would have to deal with the workmen at the yard over a period of weeks, through multiple steps in the process where owners on the forum are posting they were overseeing the work and being present through the steps.

Also in reviewing the photos when I had more time, this boat showed leaking under the port lights on both sides and the sole looks like it has a place that's coming up, and has been redone at some point with different wood.
I think this is really more than I can take on TBH.

I cannot see a link to the boat you are thinking of, just a photograph, so do you know that the strut is a problem? If the cutless bearing was redone just two years ago then the strut would have been inspected at that time, and some struts are still intact after 50+ years.

Replacing the strut would involve the cost of hauling out which is not cheap, but hauling out really ought to be done in order to inspect a boat you are thinking of buying. It sounds like you may get an indicator of the cost of fabrication and glasswork shortly in this thread.

There will inevitably be issues with a boat of such and age, so I would demand the seller be flexible to adjusting the price to reflect anything you find. Some sellers are of course dishonest and will just hope to find another customer (or even surveyor) who does not pay enough attention.

It does of course help a lot to have a knowledge of old boats when taking one on, knowledge of the kind that I had zero of when I bought Freyja but got a good course in over the next few years.

The E35 is a truly great boat to sail. Lovely handling. The size of boat can carry a a fair number of friends, store and carry what you (or I at least) need, and be comfortable to live in; while small enough that you can handle the sails without having to crank winches much of the time, the sails can be carried and rigged easily and folded on the dock, and even the heaviest anchors a man can carry alone. Larger boats do not have the responsive feel that I so love with Freyja, and tend to be a lot more expensive both to buy and to keep.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[Barbixy]

$50k ! Nowhere near that number. If someone quoted that RUN ! I would think maybe 10% of that number, $4-5K but purely a guess as never had work done in your neck of the woods. Also most likely the shaft is bent, unusable. Shafts are not expensive and it would be silly not to replace it along with the coupler.

I cannot see a link to the boat you are thinking of, just a photograph, so do you know that the strut is a problem? If the cutless bearing was redone just two years ago then the strut would have been inspected at that time, and some struts are still intact after 50+ years.

Replacing the strut would involve the cost of hauling out which is not cheap, but hauling out really ought to be done in order to inspect a boat you are thinking of buying. It sounds like you may get an indicator of the cost of fabrication and glasswork shortly in this thread.

There will inevitably be issues with a boat of such and age, so I would demand the seller be flexible to adjusting the price to reflect anything you find. Some sellers are of course dishonest and will just hope to find another customer (or even surveyor) who does not pay enough attention.

It does of course help a lot to have a knowledge of old boats when taking one on, knowledge of the kind that I had zero of when I bought Freyja but got a good course in over the next few years.

The E35 is a truly great boat to sail. Lovely handling. The size of boat can carry a a fair number of friends, store and carry what you (or I at least) need, and be comfortable to live in; while small enough that you can handle the sails without having to crank winches much of the time, the sails can be carried and rigged easily and folded on the dock, and even the heaviest anchors a man can carry alone. Larger boats do not have the responsive feel that I so love with Freyja, and tend to be a lot more expensive both to buy and to keep.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

Hi, thank you. It was a 1983 Ericson 35 for sale in San Diego. I was at first discouraged at the prospect of this repair but after reading and re-reading all of the posts on the strut repair (one post said looks like their lifespan is 40 years) I'm pretty sure I could figure out how to do this refit and do the work if I needed to. It's a big job removing the fuel tank and everything else inside the hull above the strut. The roadblock seems to be that yards in my neck of the woods do not allow owners to work on their own boats in the yard "for liability reasons." How has everyone on this thread gotten around that?

 

[Loren Beach]

Up here, I would rough guess that more than half the remaining yards do not allow (or severely limit) DIY. Unfortunate situation.

 

[bigd14]

Barbixy, one thing to be aware of when replacing the strut is mission creep or “while you are in there” syndrome. There is a lot of interconnected stuff to be removed to get at the strut. Getting the prop shaft/transmission coupler off can be nearly impossible, which then requires cutting it and a new prop shaft and coupler, or taking the engine out to get the shaft and coupler out as a unit to be separated in a workshop. There will inevitably be old hoses, engine mounts, exhaust elbows and various other fittings that when you go to reinstall everything you may find really need replacing so as not to have issues in the future. Most of these fittings would not be accessible if they did fail without removing everything again. So I would recommend being ready to replace most everything in the aft end of the boat.

As for complexity, I would say getting the strut aligned was the most difficult aspect of the entire job- everything else is pretty standard work and some fun with epoxy. It’s mostly just messy and uncomfortable working in a confined space.

The “while you are in there syndrome” is typically accompanied by the “law of threes” which states that each job will generally take three times longer and cost three times more than you originally estimate. So if you can find a yard that allows you to do your own work, make sure it is somewhat reasonably priced so you are not stuck paying through the nose when your estimated two weeks of yard time turns into 6 weeks (or a year in my case).

I don’t mean to scare you off doing this work yourself, and I have no doubt that you would be perfectly successful doing it. But having done two major boat rebuild projects with a third one currently underway I am still amazed at how long it takes, how expensive it is and how many unexpected issues crop up, so planning for those scenarios can hopefully help you in your decision making.

 

[frick]

My Original strut on my 1971 E29 broke when I wrapped a line around it. My boat Yard in NY did the work and replaced the strut with a much beefer one and also added some fiberglass to remove any excessive movement in the hull

 

[Barbixy]

Barbixy, one thing to be aware of when replacing the strut is mission creep or “while you are in there” syndrome. There is a lot of interconnected stuff to be removed to get at the strut. Getting the prop shaft/transmission coupler off can be nearly impossible, which then requires cutting it and a new prop shaft and coupler, or taking the engine out to get the shaft and coupler out as a unit to be separated in a workshop. There will inevitably be old hoses, engine mounts, exhaust elbows and various other fittings that when you go to reinstall everything you may find really need replacing so as not to have issues in the future. Most of these fittings would not be accessible if they did fail without removing everything again. So I would recommend being ready to replace most everything in the aft end of the boat.

As for complexity, I would say getting the strut aligned was the most difficult aspect of the entire job- everything else is pretty standard work and some fun with epoxy. It’s mostly just messy and uncomfortable working in a confined space.

The “while you are in there syndrome” is typically accompanied by the “law of threes” which states that each job will generally take three times longer and cost three times more than you originally estimate. So if you can find a yard that allows you to do your own work, make sure it is somewhat reasonably priced so you are not stuck paying through the nose when your estimated two weeks of yard time turns into 6 weeks (or a year in my case).

I don’t mean to scare you off doing this work yourself, and I have no doubt that you would be perfectly successful doing it. But having done two major boat rebuild projects with a third one currently underway I am still amazed at how long it takes, how expensive it is and how many unexpected issues crop up, so planning for those scenarios can hopefully help you in your decision making.

Thank you Big D, for all of that great information. There is no yard to do anything like that here, and if they balk at all wing men to do it, it's going to be even harder to get in for a woman. And this kind of constant refit is de riguer for an old boat. Ericson designed a really nice boat through their years, but after going through the learning curve on this forum about what is involved, I've decided to look for a newer boat..
Re: taking three times as long working in a confined space, I I stalled all this solar wiring and components on my knees inside my van. Working a few hours each weekend day (after 10am it just got too hot) it took me 4 months

 

[bigd14]

That’s a great looking install and wiring job! Hope you can find the right boat.

 

[Barbixy]

Thank you. I'm pretty well versed in solar, so that's good.

 

[gareth harris]

I once had a job done at a yard on Shelter Island by a contractor who put me on his list of employees so that I could work on my boat. I cannot remember the name of his firm but may be able to find it somewhere if it would help, although this was back in 1998 just after I bought Freyja so he may well not be there anymore. There may be other contractors in the area who would be willing to work with you in the same way if you ask around.

I cannot remember the name of the yard either, although you may be able to guess from the photograph below which I took from the deck while I was there.

I would have thought it would be possible to replace the strut by glassing in a replacement rather than having to get access from inside the hull, which would obviate removing the fuel tank. Others can offer you better advice than I can on glasswork, but it would be worth investigating. Removing the fuel tank will involve removing a glassed-in bulkhead, and once you start disturbing any 43 year old system you will end up doing other jobs that present themselves.

I replaced the cutless bearing while I was at the yard. Removing the shaft coupling from the shaft took me a full afternoon of placing ever longer sockets between the shaft and the engine coupling, and then tightening the screws around the socket to back off the coupling; and that was when the coupling was only 25 years old.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972