I have the 35-2 plan with the engine under the dining seat. I would like to switch out the old Atomic 4 with a diesel. Has anyone accomplished this and fit it in the existing box without cabinet modifications? If anyone can shed light on the best engine to select and what I can expect in terms of modifications I would look forward to the info.
Hi - I recently did an A4 replacement of an E29. Different engine location, under the companion way steps, but it was the same engine I swapped out.
I replaced with a Beta Marine engine and am extremely pleased. It's based on a Kubota industrial diesel with a very nice heat exchanger exhaust manifold combination.
I had to do some modifications on the box. The big issue is that the Diesels connect to two shaft transmissions. This is in contrast to the planatary gear transmission on the A4. This raises the engine height a couple of inches. I checked pretty extensively and couldn't find a way around the hieght issue.
All other aspects of the repower we're pretty straight forward. In short, mount and align, connect the systems (e.g., Fuel, panel, cooling, batteries, shaft, exhaust).
The big job is getting the old engine out and the new one properly mounted and aligned on the engine beds. The rest is pretty straightforward.
Hope this helps a bit.
I replaced with a Beta Marine engine and am extremely pleased. It's based on a Kubota industrial diesel with a very nice heat exchanger exhaust manifold combination.
I had to do some modifications on the box. The big issue is that the Diesels connect to two shaft transmissions. This is in contrast to the planatary gear transmission on the A4. This raises the engine height a couple of inches. I checked pretty extensively and couldn't find a way around the hieght issue.
All other aspects of the repower we're pretty straight forward. In short, mount and align, connect the systems (e.g., Fuel, panel, cooling, batteries, shaft, exhaust).
The big job is getting the old engine out and the new one properly mounted and aligned on the engine beds. The rest is pretty straightforward.
Hope this helps a bit.
I have a 1970 e 35/2 that the last owner did an engine swap. Took the atomic 4 out and put in an westerbek 27hp. The only mod that he did to the enginge box was had to cut out the center section of the top and raise it about two inches. This was covered up by removing the same amount on the underside of the cusion. With the cover on you can not see any difference on the seat height. The 27 hp gives me lots of power, cruise at 5.5-6 kn and only turning about 2400 rpm.
Betamarine notes...
I just got home from a visit to a friend's boat that has had a 20 hp, 3 cylinder Betamarine swapped in to replace an elderly Volvo diesel. The Beta has an oil removal pump incorporated on the right side of the engine, for oil changes!
It looks better up close than it does in the pictures. I realize that to change from an A4 often presents challenges in height differences, but the Beta (aka Kubota) is a *very* neatly engineered package. no rough welds in sight. This particular installation is in a Cascade 36, and the owner has even custom designed a bracket for an additional hi-ouput alternator, for separate charging for the starting battery and larger house bank.
Strictly subjective, but I liked the general look and placement of servicing areas.
Just my .02 worth,
Loren
PDX
I just got home from a visit to a friend's boat that has had a 20 hp, 3 cylinder Betamarine swapped in to replace an elderly Volvo diesel. The Beta has an oil removal pump incorporated on the right side of the engine, for oil changes!
It looks better up close than it does in the pictures. I realize that to change from an A4 often presents challenges in height differences, but the Beta (aka Kubota) is a *very* neatly engineered package. no rough welds in sight. This particular installation is in a Cascade 36, and the owner has even custom designed a bracket for an additional hi-ouput alternator, for separate charging for the starting battery and larger house bank.
Strictly subjective, but I liked the general look and placement of servicing areas.
Just my .02 worth,
Loren
PDX
Bill Robbins
Member II
I repowerd my old Ericson 35-2 from an Atomic 4 to a Yanmar. The installation took about 100 hours. The engine bed was rusted out. Check yours carefully, you might be surprised as I was how far gone it was. The Yanmar 3GM 28 horse power was very powerful pushing the boat an easy 5.5 to 6 knots in a good chop. Also, I the engine is put together well for boats, i.e., heat exchanger, fuel pump, water pump....
The downside is the Yanmar does not fit the old engine bed. Additionally when you make a new one, the engine height will increase your box height about four inches. To get around this I used an Aquadrive 20000 series. I paid about $800, ouch! The aquadrive is a double CV joint that allows for the engine to be offset from the shaft. See the website drivelines.com In my case I was able to lower the height of the engine 3 inches by angling the engine down 5 degrees. I also angled the engine inwards toward the centerline of the boat 3 degrees. This allowed more access room on the port side of the engine.The best part of the aquadrive is that the thrust of the propeller shaft is transferred to the aquadrive and thrust plate, not through the gear box to the engine motor mounts. This extends life on gearbox, mounts, and engine is smoother and quieter. I did make a new box, and modify the cabin sole because the engine was longer.
I was very happy with this engine.
Good luck,
Bill
The downside is the Yanmar does not fit the old engine bed. Additionally when you make a new one, the engine height will increase your box height about four inches. To get around this I used an Aquadrive 20000 series. I paid about $800, ouch! The aquadrive is a double CV joint that allows for the engine to be offset from the shaft. See the website drivelines.com In my case I was able to lower the height of the engine 3 inches by angling the engine down 5 degrees. I also angled the engine inwards toward the centerline of the boat 3 degrees. This allowed more access room on the port side of the engine.The best part of the aquadrive is that the thrust of the propeller shaft is transferred to the aquadrive and thrust plate, not through the gear box to the engine motor mounts. This extends life on gearbox, mounts, and engine is smoother and quieter. I did make a new box, and modify the cabin sole because the engine was longer.
I was very happy with this engine.
Good luck,
Bill
Thanks for your reply Bill. I'm going to look into the Aquadrive right now. That is a good bit of problem solving right there. Funny you should mention the mounts because that's my whole problem. The Atomic 4 runs beautifully but it's almost a miracle that it still stands there with the degredation that's been done to the starboard side mounts. "I know, lets stand the engine in a salt water puddle on soft steel legs, that'll be fun".
Thanks to all, project completed
Thanks to everyone for your help with engine selection for my 35-2. I've been so busy, I've forgotten to post an update. Those rusty metal stanchions under the starboard side of the old Atomic Bore, that I was worried about finally gave way last summer. We were going almost nine knots on a port reach and poor old Stinky just rolled over on her side against the engine box. I ended up putting in the Universal M3 20B. I thought it might be a little under powered but I liked the fact that it would actually fit in under the seat without a lot of modifications. All I had to cut out of the lid was a little patch over the alternator. The little fiberglass bubble that we made to cover it, just hides under the cushion. It turns out, the 20 delivers plenty of power. It tops out at about 6 knots, but 5.5 is really comfortable for a long motor. Really happy with it. That single improvement has completely changed the boat for me. It burns about .6 gal. per hour when I'm really pushing it. Just amazing. We put the engine in with the boat in the water, so I haven't replaced the shaft log yet. Finally taking it out next week to put in a PYI in place of the packed shaft seal. Can't wait to have a dry bilge. Thanks again y'all.
Thanks to everyone for your help with engine selection for my 35-2. I've been so busy, I've forgotten to post an update. Those rusty metal stanchions under the starboard side of the old Atomic Bore, that I was worried about finally gave way last summer. We were going almost nine knots on a port reach and poor old Stinky just rolled over on her side against the engine box. I ended up putting in the Universal M3 20B. I thought it might be a little under powered but I liked the fact that it would actually fit in under the seat without a lot of modifications. All I had to cut out of the lid was a little patch over the alternator. The little fiberglass bubble that we made to cover it, just hides under the cushion. It turns out, the 20 delivers plenty of power. It tops out at about 6 knots, but 5.5 is really comfortable for a long motor. Really happy with it. That single improvement has completely changed the boat for me. It burns about .6 gal. per hour when I'm really pushing it. Just amazing. We put the engine in with the boat in the water, so I haven't replaced the shaft log yet. Finally taking it out next week to put in a PYI in place of the packed shaft seal. Can't wait to have a dry bilge. Thanks again y'all.
gareth harris
Sustaining Member
Please keep us updated on how you feel about the power of the new engine - i.e. when you have tried driving into a stiff wind and seas.
What is the rated power?
My A4 was flooded in the hurricane, plus I am replacing the fuel tank and engine beds which are correded, so if I ever do a diesel repower, it will be now.
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
What is the rated power?
My A4 was flooded in the hurricane, plus I am replacing the fuel tank and engine beds which are correded, so if I ever do a diesel repower, it will be now.
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
Well Gareth, I came dead into a 27 knot breeze with the new 20 horse and it did very well. It did a good 5 knots. I have a switch on the Balmar 75 amp that cuts the amperage in half when you need the power for the prop and want to cut the drag down. It does make a difference, especially when the batteries are low and the alternator is hard on the belt. This thing is so much more powerful than the Atomic bore that I can't want for more.
My 35-2 (from 1977) has the original 22.5 gal aluminum tank. It is in good shape, so I changed the fuel lines, filter, and added the return line from the engine pump which is "t"ed into the original vent line on the top of the tank. The vent hose was changed a couple of years ago so that didn't get done again.
gareth harris
Sustaining Member
Tom - if you are looking to replace your fuel tank, I can forward you the dimensions of the one I am having built. My original was steel.
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
The hardware in the binacle needs some simple modifications to work with the new morse cables for the shift and throttle. I wish I could tell you what exactly they were, but it's been a year and a half and I don't remember without taking off the compass and looking in to the darn thing. One additional thing I did was to shorten the gear shift lever down to about five inches. You won't need all that leverage any more with the new transmission, and lines and jacket pockets and stuff doesn't get hung up on the shorter lever. The throttle now works on the push instead of on the pull and that required a modification to the throttle bracket on the new engine (to work with the action of the lever at the binacle), but again, no big deal. I did all the cable stuff in a day on my own with a bunch of trips to various widget suppliers. I just came back from Catalina today grinding into the 20 knot wind at Angels Gate, and the new engine does 6 knots right into it. The twenty horse universal is definitely working out fine.
Thank you, were you also required to change out the shaft and propeller? I think the cost of the haulout and work on that part is the most expensive part of the installation.
I talked to the local universal dealer and he told me that m20 wasn't as easy a drop in as the advertising leads us to believe.
Jim Holmberg
I talked to the local universal dealer and he told me that m20 wasn't as easy a drop in as the advertising leads us to believe.
Jim Holmberg
Engine swap
SO glad it worked out for you! In addition to all of the benefits, you have the most desireable (from a sailing standpoint) of the 35's! This engine location makes a HUGE difference over the aft engine-especially in choppy water/waves. Your boat has a significantly better pitching moment and does really well compared to the aft installation in rough water-better ride, faster, etc.
Not much to add here, except I always like to hear about the mid engine boats being upgraded and maintained!
Fair winds,
SO glad it worked out for you! In addition to all of the benefits, you have the most desireable (from a sailing standpoint) of the 35's! This engine location makes a HUGE difference over the aft engine-especially in choppy water/waves. Your boat has a significantly better pitching moment and does really well compared to the aft installation in rough water-better ride, faster, etc.
Not much to add here, except I always like to hear about the mid engine boats being upgraded and maintained!
Fair winds,
No, it isn't a just drop it in sort of situation. The old iron engine supports have to go anyway, so it's no big deal that the new stringers are going to have to line up with different mounting points. I made a light wooden template that bolted to the shaft coupling and had feet that stood at the exact positions of the feet on the new engine. That way I was able to slip the stringers under the template and see where they needed to be cut to have exactly the right contours to sit in the bilge and meet the engine feet. My shop is about a mile from the marina. I went back and forth between my big band saw and the boat about half a dozen times before the stringers were the right shape to glass in. If you cut a little too much away it's no big deal, you just shmush a bunch of kitty hair poly glop on the bottom of the stringers and scoosh them in to the right position. The three quarter shaft is fine to reuse, unless it's bent, but you will need to reprop. My old prop was a two blade 12-7. The new one is a three blade 13-11 sailor cut. I could be wrong about the pitch, but I think I remember it being set at 11.
I agree Seth, the mid engine is the best. The weight is placed right, and all the mechanicals are right there in the center of the boat. I like having the shaft packing right under the carpet in the middle of the floor. Everything is easy to check on when you are under way.
Brisdon and the Atomic Bore
Brisdon, I am in the process of building a new bed for a similair engine on
the E35-II, a M4-30. Would appreciate pics or drawings of your new
engine mount system for the M3-20B
thx
Brisdon said:Thanks to everyone for your help with engine selection for my 35-2. I've been so busy, I've forgotten to post an update. Those rusty metal stanchions under the starboard side of the old Atomic Bore, that I was worried about finally gave way last summer. We were going almost nine knots on a port reach and poor old Stinky just rolled over on her side against the engine box. I ended up putting in the Universal M3 20B. I thought it might be a little under powered but I liked the fact that it would actually fit in under the seat without a lot of modifications. All I had to cut out of the lid was a little patch over the alternator. The little fiberglass bubble that we made to cover it, just hides under the cushion. It turns out, the 20 delivers plenty of power. It tops out at about 6 knots, but 5.5 is really comfortable for a long motor. Really happy with it. That single improvement has completely changed the boat for me. It burns about .6 gal. per hour when I'm really pushing it. Just amazing. We put the engine in with the boat in the water, so I haven't replaced the shaft log yet. Finally taking it out next week to put in a PYI in place of the packed shaft seal. Can't wait to have a dry bilge. Thanks again y'all.
Brisdon, I am in the process of building a new bed for a similair engine on
the E35-II, a M4-30. Would appreciate pics or drawings of your new
engine mount system for the M3-20B
thx
jmoses
Member III
A-4 re-do
I don't think I'd call an A-4 and A-bore....any abused engine will crap out if given enough neglect. For about 500.00 I resurcted my A-4 from a dodgey rust heap curtesy of the P.O.
Here's my 'New' A-4 in a 1972 E-35 MKII (PS: it's 5 years old in the pictures - just an occasional cleaning and hose change):
John M.
I don't think I'd call an A-4 and A-bore....any abused engine will crap out if given enough neglect. For about 500.00 I resurcted my A-4 from a dodgey rust heap curtesy of the P.O.
Here's my 'New' A-4 in a 1972 E-35 MKII (PS: it's 5 years old in the pictures - just an occasional cleaning and hose change):
John M.
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