I recently purchased a 1984 35-3 which is a fabulous match for me and my family. The helm seems inordinately stiff, however, and I am wondering if that in endemic to the design or something that needs immediate attention. I have loosened the cables a bit which helped a little but have not yet looked for a rudder post packing box which I sense from a post here re a 32 may exist as such on the 35-3 as well. Having been raised on wooden gaff rig boats with tillers, a wheel is new to me. Any thoughts?
35-3 stiff helm
- Thread starter littlj
- Start date
supersailor
Contributing Partner
Stiff Helm
Welcome to the fold. The 35-3 is a neat boat. I have a 34-2 which is essentially the same boat with the head in the back of the cabin. The helm is exceptionally light and only requires one finger to steer. Something is binding in your system. You can isolate it by disconnecting the wheel at the quadrant and seeing if the rudder moves freely. If it does, the problem is in the cable system. If it is in the rudder shaft, the boat should be hauled and the shaft and bearings checked. I would definitely locate the problem before using the boat much.
Bob Morrison
Terra Nova, E34-2
Welcome to the fold. The 35-3 is a neat boat. I have a 34-2 which is essentially the same boat with the head in the back of the cabin. The helm is exceptionally light and only requires one finger to steer. Something is binding in your system. You can isolate it by disconnecting the wheel at the quadrant and seeing if the rudder moves freely. If it does, the problem is in the cable system. If it is in the rudder shaft, the boat should be hauled and the shaft and bearings checked. I would definitely locate the problem before using the boat much.
Bob Morrison
Terra Nova, E34-2
bobplummer
Junior Member
i have a 1984 34-3 constant craving #166 , i have 2 grease fittings on the rudder shaft , maybe they were never used, you might check it out.
Rocinante33
Contributing Partner
It also helped me to oil the mechanism in a couple of places.
1. Remove the top plate off of the rudder post. This is where the emergency tiller is put to use on my 1983 vintage boat. Oil it liberally with 3 in 1 oil or even some motor oil.
2. Remove the compass from the binnacle and then the binnacle center/ top layer, if necessary. That will give access to the upper chain for the steering mechanism. Give that the oil treatment also, moving the wheel back and forth to its limits.
3. Oil the pulleys which lead the cables to the quadrant.
These two or three steps freed mine up quite a lot.
1. Remove the top plate off of the rudder post. This is where the emergency tiller is put to use on my 1983 vintage boat. Oil it liberally with 3 in 1 oil or even some motor oil.
2. Remove the compass from the binnacle and then the binnacle center/ top layer, if necessary. That will give access to the upper chain for the steering mechanism. Give that the oil treatment also, moving the wheel back and forth to its limits.
3. Oil the pulleys which lead the cables to the quadrant.
These two or three steps freed mine up quite a lot.
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supersailor
Contributing Partner
Stiff Helm
Greasing the rudder is a great thought. There are those that don't believe that grease has any use except to foul clothes. If this is the case, pulling the rudder at haul out is a good idea. If it is now stiff, pitting is very likely in the bearings. You will also know the condition of the rudder stock and the bearings. Don't forget the packing.
Bob
Greasing the rudder is a great thought. There are those that don't believe that grease has any use except to foul clothes. If this is the case, pulling the rudder at haul out is a good idea. If it is now stiff, pitting is very likely in the bearings. You will also know the condition of the rudder stock and the bearings. Don't forget the packing.
Bob
Cory B
Sustaining Member
Our helm is fairly smooth. Those are good suggestions above.
In our case, the lower grease zerk fitting was a corroded mess and not usable - but doesn't seem to really matter much for us. We dropped the rudder and shimmed it (it rattled a little previously) 3 years ago and its still going fine. At some future haul-out we'll lower the rudder a little to grease the lower bearing again.
There should be a packing gland on top of the rudder tube, and that could be cause of the problem. Sometimes people crank them down too tight trying to solve a drip rather than replace the worn out packing material. The top of the rudder tube should be above the waterline when the boat is level, so you might be able to replace the packing at the dock if you can properly contort yourself if necessary.
In our case, the lower grease zerk fitting was a corroded mess and not usable - but doesn't seem to really matter much for us. We dropped the rudder and shimmed it (it rattled a little previously) 3 years ago and its still going fine. At some future haul-out we'll lower the rudder a little to grease the lower bearing again.
There should be a packing gland on top of the rudder tube, and that could be cause of the problem. Sometimes people crank them down too tight trying to solve a drip rather than replace the worn out packing material. The top of the rudder tube should be above the waterline when the boat is level, so you might be able to replace the packing at the dock if you can properly contort yourself if necessary.
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Related thread
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?12094-Steering-wheel-very-stiff
More reading.....
Loren
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?12094-Steering-wheel-very-stiff
More reading.....
Loren
Pat O'Connell
Member III
Stiiff Helm E28+ 1981 W/Edson Wheel
Hi Respected Sailors
For what it is worth our stiff wheel was caused by the wheel brake material coming loose and folding over when the brake was off. Edson sent more brake material, or maybe it was a kit and the replacement of the brake material fixed the problem.
Regards
Pat
Hi Respected Sailors
For what it is worth our stiff wheel was caused by the wheel brake material coming loose and folding over when the brake was off. Edson sent more brake material, or maybe it was a kit and the replacement of the brake material fixed the problem.
Regards
Pat
Stefouellet
Member I
Stiff helm on one side
Good day, I have an Ericson 28-2. The helm is stiffer on one side than the other. When I turn it to stbd it is easy to move but as soon as I pass the midship point and turn to port the helm becomes stiffer. I looked for the grease nipple and I was unable to find it on the shaft in the fiberglass mess. I checked the cables and the tension seems to be the same.
Thanks for the advice in advance.
Stef Ouellet
Hilda Harris
86 Ericson 28-2
Good day, I have an Ericson 28-2. The helm is stiffer on one side than the other. When I turn it to stbd it is easy to move but as soon as I pass the midship point and turn to port the helm becomes stiffer. I looked for the grease nipple and I was unable to find it on the shaft in the fiberglass mess. I checked the cables and the tension seems to be the same.
Thanks for the advice in advance.
Stef Ouellet
Hilda Harris
86 Ericson 28-2
Afrakes
Sustaining Member
Bushings, maybe?
There are no grease zerks on the rudder tube for my 28/2 either. Check for wear in the bushings for the idler pulleys. When I replaced my rudder I found that they were worn. Ordered a couple from McMaster Carr. While underway have someone steer the boat and observe how the pulleys react. If they torque out of line one way or another under pressure that may be the issue. You may also find that the stainless steel axels for the pulleys are worn as well.
There are no grease zerks on the rudder tube for my 28/2 either. Check for wear in the bushings for the idler pulleys. When I replaced my rudder I found that they were worn. Ordered a couple from McMaster Carr. While underway have someone steer the boat and observe how the pulleys react. If they torque out of line one way or another under pressure that may be the issue. You may also find that the stainless steel axels for the pulleys are worn as well.
Stefouellet
Member I
Disc drive splitting
Thanks Afrakes, after further inspection, realised that the quadrant was misaligned and splitting which I strongly suspect is the cause of my steering issue. I am now trying to find the best replacement quadrant for my Ericson 28-2.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...attachmentid=27585&d=1565587112&thumb=1&stc=1
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...attachmentid=27586&d=1565587112&thumb=1&stc=1
Thanks Afrakes, after further inspection, realised that the quadrant was misaligned and splitting which I strongly suspect is the cause of my steering issue. I am now trying to find the best replacement quadrant for my Ericson 28-2.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...attachmentid=27585&d=1565587112&thumb=1&stc=1
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...attachmentid=27586&d=1565587112&thumb=1&stc=1
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Afrakes
Sustaining Member
How bad
How bad is the damage and can it be fixed? Removal is easy if the fasteners are not corrosion welded. The emergency tiller post engages the through bolt on the quadrant. When I replaced my rudder I found that the hole through the quadrant was drilled slightly off center. In examining the emergency tiller post the engaging slot was also cut slightly off center to match. Take pictures and post them.
How bad is the damage and can it be fixed? Removal is easy if the fasteners are not corrosion welded. The emergency tiller post engages the through bolt on the quadrant. When I replaced my rudder I found that the hole through the quadrant was drilled slightly off center. In examining the emergency tiller post the engaging slot was also cut slightly off center to match. Take pictures and post them.
If you can post a cell phone photo, repair possibilities can be discussed.
Stefouellet
Member I
Disc Drive splitting
I am not home now and I will post pictures when I can but my assessment is that the disc drive is not repairable. I guess some much pressure was applied on the disc drive when steering that a portion of the fitting is starting to peel away from the rudder shaft. The metal under the rudder shaft bolt has corroded away in a triangular shape. As such, I could technically pull the disc drive up without undoing the bolt through the rudder shaft. The disc drive is also on an slight angle which explains why it is difficult to turn the helm in one direction. So I am shopping a new disc drive and the question is which one fits best for the purpose: Lewmar or Edson?
I do not see much corrosion on any of the bolts however I have yet to try to undo anything as I assess I still can use the boat for short distance in mild weather. My biggest concern is to undo the bolt going through the shaft and having the disc drive drilled to match that bolt hole which seems to be from Red 45 to Green 135 if you understand what I mean.
Cheers,
Stef
I am not home now and I will post pictures when I can but my assessment is that the disc drive is not repairable. I guess some much pressure was applied on the disc drive when steering that a portion of the fitting is starting to peel away from the rudder shaft. The metal under the rudder shaft bolt has corroded away in a triangular shape. As such, I could technically pull the disc drive up without undoing the bolt through the rudder shaft. The disc drive is also on an slight angle which explains why it is difficult to turn the helm in one direction. So I am shopping a new disc drive and the question is which one fits best for the purpose: Lewmar or Edson?
I do not see much corrosion on any of the bolts however I have yet to try to undo anything as I assess I still can use the boat for short distance in mild weather. My biggest concern is to undo the bolt going through the shaft and having the disc drive drilled to match that bolt hole which seems to be from Red 45 to Green 135 if you understand what I mean.
Cheers,
Stef
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supersailor
Contributing Partner
One little side note: You do have to remove the wheel to use the emergency tiller on most models. It would be good to remove the nut and wheel and grease the hub and threads every couple of years. You don't want to find they are frozen if you have an emergency. I do remove the wheel periodically at the slip when there is a group onboard. It's sure easier to maneuver about the cockpit during a party. A small dab of grease after everyone leaves as the wheel is being reinstalled keeps everything happy.
GrandpaSteve
Sustaining Member
OK - I'll ask. Where do you put the wheel during the party?
supersailor
Contributing Partner
Hey G'pa. I got grand kids hanging all over the boat also. Mine are 2 and 5. Great fun! 
When I remove the wheel, I take it up to the shrouds on the side away from the finger dock and tie it to the shrouds with a short piece of 1/4" line. I screw the nut back on the threads as I'm very good at losing little things like that!
When I remove the wheel, I take it up to the shrouds on the side away from the finger dock and tie it to the shrouds with a short piece of 1/4" line. I screw the nut back on the threads as I'm very good at losing little things like that!
GrandpaSteve
Sustaining Member
Great tips! Thanks Bob.
Plan B
Fancy way to temporarily store the wheel.
https://edsonmarine.com/storage-rail-mount-tapered-hub-device-only/
Or, just convert to a tiller... which hinges up out of the way for social times.
Fancy way to temporarily store the wheel.
https://edsonmarine.com/storage-rail-mount-tapered-hub-device-only/
Or, just convert to a tiller... which hinges up out of the way for social times.