38-200 Inboard sheeting tracks

[FrankZ]

I have a 1986 38-200. I've been sailing her only a year; and when I bought her, the jib sheet cars were on the railing track. I've since seen and heard that the boat is designed for the jib sheet cars to run on the inboard tracks. I tried it and found the boat tempermental in moderate wind. Anyone out there with my boat type or similar with an experienced opinon on where best to position the jib cars?

Thanks,

Frank Z.

 

[rwthomas1]

That is interesting. I have a 130% genoa with a fairly high clew on my '83 E38. The genoa cars are on the inboard tracks located centered on the aftmost window in the cabin top. Tempermental? Not really until the breeze goes over 20+knots and I am reaching or running. Then it tends to skate around a bit, takes a little helm attention to maintain course. Close hauled or 90* and tighter she locks in like shes on rails. RT

 

[Chris Miller]

genoa cars...

We have a relatively low clewed (about at the top of the lifelines, but not a decksweeper or anything) 150. It will start to get overpowered in about 12-14 kts of true wind. I compensate by running the cars back and inducing a pretty good amount of twist in the sail. It'll usually point about 30-32 apparent like that and keep her speed up. Just be careful not to pin the sail on the shrouds at the foot when you crank her in with the cars back. After about 16 kts true, we go with a couple of rolls on the furler and start thinking about a reef in the main. Twist and traveller down will go a long way towards getting the boat a little more upright and going fwd rather than sideways .

I'm toying with the idea of putting towable cars on the boat this winter, but it's not at the top of the project list.

 

[Seth]

Right "track"

All of these responses are correct. To give a more specific answer, the inboard tracks are available for use with sails that are designed for close sheeting angles, and when used this way, you will see optimal pointing and upwind VMG.

MOST, but not all cruising/furling genoas are designed operate pretty well on the inboard track, and it is here that you will see the best upwind performance, provided the car is in the right fore and aft location for the sail size you have-this position is the one in which when the sail is trimmed in and you are sailing close hauled, the upper and lower sets of telltales will "break" (meaning the inside yarn will lift) at the same time. If you observe the lower inside yarn lifting while the upper set are both streaming straight back, this means the lead is too far forward. If you see the top break significantly before the bottom, it is too far back. This is the position where you have the entire sail functioning properly. As already noted in this thread, when you begin to get over powered, dropping the lead back a few holes will "open" the top of the sail (which causes the worst of the heeling and feeling of being overpowered), or put differently, you are easing the top of the sail, but not the bottom. This is a proven method of "reducing" the genoa, or depowering it.

In heavier conditions, you can also go the outboard track to further depower a bit, as the slot is more open. Some very full reaching-type genoas need to remain on the outboard track, since they are not desgined to be close winded, and as such do not benefit from the inside, narrow sheeting angle.In fact, they are very ineffective like this-but not too many primary sails are built like this today-mostly this will be a specialty sail built for a specific condition.

Finally, even if you genny is a good upwind sail and sheets on the inboard track for close hauled sailing, if you plan to be on a rreach of any kind for longer periods, you can improve the performance of the sail by moving it to the outboard track (and slightly forward of course). Since you are not trying to maximize pointing, the inboard track is no longer helping, and wider sailing angles require wider sheeting angles..
Got it? Pop quiz at noon!

Seth

 

[e38 owner]

inboard tracks

I race quite often and have found the following
upwind in over 3-5 knots of wind I always use the inboard track
I use the inboard track with the 135
Upwind under 3-5 the boat can be hard to keep in the grove on the inboard track with the 155 and is much easier to get moving when sheeted outboard.

When reaching move the car outboard and forward.
I have adjustable cars on the inboard track. Car placement is very important with the 155 in light air

For what it is worth

 

[Seth]

Worth a lot

Because it is good advice. The only qualifying I would offer is to say that the move to outboard track for very light air upwind depends on the weight and shape of the Genoa. If you have a true Light # 1, you should be able to simply move the lead slightly ahead (of the 4-8 knot position), and trim it slightly looser than the 4-8 knot position, or about 3-4 " off the top spreader (as opposed to 1-2 inches), and remain on the inboard track. But, some genoas may need to be moved outboard, as e38 says. Everything else is universally correct!!

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Can we talk about adjustable leads? I have seen the towable cars but wonder if they really work under load? Or do I need new tracks and the cars with bearings?

 

[Seth]

Adjustable leads

Without doubt, the best thing is a Hharken or Garhauer track and car set up with purchase for adjusting. Having said that, if that is just not feasible, provided the orginal track and the deck right under it is smooth, clean, occasionally sprayed with a lube of some sort, using the cars with plastic/delrin inserts and a purchase WILL work reasonably well. If you just can't stomach pulling that old track and bolting down the fancy track, just clean up the area under the edges of the old track, buy the cars with the inserts(much cheaper than roller cars), and go with it.

It will definitely improve things, you will be able to more easily depower in a breeze, or pull the car forward for reaching or lighter airs, etc.


Either option will be better than what you have.

The other way to go, is to have a sliding padeye on the rail on each side with a block, so you can move this around on the outboard rail, and a "short sheet". If you want to change the lead position, take the short sheet (keep this handy) through the outboard block (place the padeye at about the same fore and aft location as the cars) and to the clew. Trim in on this sheet using the secondaries if you have them, or the cabin top winch or even the windward winch-just to take up the load. Dump the primary sheet and you can now move the car as needed (forward or aft), then retrim on the primary sheet, and ease of the short sheet, and you are done.

Whether or not you have adjustable leads on the inboard tracks having a short sheet and block is great because you can easily set up the outboard lead, or more frequently, have both sheets working to put the clew EXACTLY where you want it (which is often somewhere between the onboard and outboard tracks)..

K?

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Ted, it is not apparent from the Garhauer web site, but its adjustable genoa cars have ball bearings (and 4:1 purchase) and work with the Merriman T-track installed on our boats. In installed them a couple of years ago. I think the money is well spent ($400 for a set).

 

[stbdtack]

I have the Harken towable cars for Ttrack and they slide pretty easily. I keep the tracked "mclubed" and use a bungee to pull them aft. I can slide it forward loaded, but not sheeted in really hard. Its a 3:1 system with a cam cleat back at the coaming. Pretty satisfied overall. The Garhauers work well but they are not like having a Harken roller track. They are a good buy for the price though.

I have adjustable blocks on the toe rail to move the sheeting angle outboard and it makes a huge difference off the wind. For now I usually tie on a lazy sheet but Im thinking of maybe experimenting with a SS ring to just "twing" it out.

Any thoughts?