A4 Advice - Keep the Inboard or Go Outboard?

[zdenka]

I have recently bought an Ericson 27 with an operational A4. Unfortunately, there is a broken strut on the hull of the boat inhibiting its usage. Do you think I should keep the A4 and get a haul out to get the strut situation fixed or should I sell the A4 and go with a small outboard. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated--especially if you have any insight into price comparisons.

Thank you,
Chris

 

[AleksT]

I recently aquired a 27 with a non-operational inboard. I switched to an outboard mainly for cost reasons. I payed less than 800 dollars for the outboard and other little things I needed to install it. (I got a real good deal on the motor. 600 dollars for a 1990's 10 horse nissan with electric start. I did all the work myself.) Repairing my inboard would have cost almost twice that.

The major downside with the outboard is that the boat reverses like a drunk cow, but it is manageable if you go slow.

 

[Loren Beach]

Chris,
Go into the Search function, then to Advanced Search, then put outboard into the search box, then go to the box for Replies and put in a fairly high number like 9 or 10, for threads with at-least # of replies.
I did this and got about six good threads about this topic.
There is quite a bit of info on this site pertaining to powering the E-27 with an outboard (pro and con...) as a work-around for a deceased inboard installation.

Regards,
Loren

 

[bayhoss]

Using and installing an outboard will give you an easy fix that will probably cost less than repairing the A4. However as stated previous, they do not back well, and in heavy seas the prop will spend as much time out of the water as it does in the water. The other side of the coin, an inboard gas engine below the waterline is just plain dangerous. Not trying to step on anyone's toes, but no sailboat that I know of has come with an inboard gas engine for the last 20 years. I'd get a good used outboard for now and save for a diesel.

Best Always,
Frank

 

[exoduse35]

I would haul the boat and fix the strut. As long as the engine is otherwise good it will be the best in the long run. If you don't remove the old shaft dragging it around it will eventually leak at the log from flopping around. and if you haul to remove it you may as well fix it as remove it and save the money of buying the outboard. just my thoughts... Edd

 

[Emerald]

I must preface this with saying this is the type of question that brings out the religion in certain people (myself included?), so be ready for a lot of strong opinions. I will concede that we have some very experienced sailors on this site who have had E27s with outboards and are quite happy with them and have put them on in response to a failing inboard. That all acknowledged, I found that putting the Atomic 4 back into my prior E27 was one of the happiest things I ever did on that boat. To me, the usability and convenience and resale value all improved greatly with the inboard. I got really tired of messing around with a blasted engine hanging off the transom, and the engine was electric start, had an alternator etc. and was reliable, but it still just didn't match an inboard for performance or convenience. The first day out repowered with the A4 found me heading straight into 20+ knots and a nice Chesapeake chop. My crew member, who had sailed quite a bit with the outboard present, agreed that the inboard was fantastic. We were making good headway and the security was much improved. There was no comparison to the outboard and the prop pulling out of the water as we were getting bounced around. Everything about the motoring experience was improved. I would not worry about exploding with the A4. How many times do you hear of your neighbor's power boat exploding? The only ones I can think of were smoking at a fuel dock. Run your blower and you'll be just fine, and of note, if you have something like stove alcohol on board, gasoline for an outboard with a below deck tank etc., you are at risk of having explosive fumes, so run your blower anyway. Sometimes I think that when Westerbeke bought Universal, they started the campaign of FUD bashing gas inboards to increase their diesel sales... - In any event, the A4 is a solid little engine, and with minimal maintenance, a great little power plant. Fix the strut. It should be done anyway for hull integrity, and I think you'll find you have a much better solution in the long run. If you really want to get rid of the A4, I'll take it off your hands Final thoughts - a small outboard is just that, and will just leave you in a situation that can be dangerous when the weather kicks up and you can't push through the sea, and a good outboard is not cheap - you might be surprised how expensive it gets to do an outboard right, and then you could have just fixed the strut.

 

[steven]

On my former Hunter 27, found a better use for my Renault diesel as a mooring anchor and replaced it with an outboard. A Yanmar 9.9 four stroke, extra long shaft with both electric start and shift/throttle controls led to the cockpit. Worked very very well in all kinds of weather, good and bad. If I were to do it today, I'd get a 15hp - same weight I think (actually, I think the same power head).

True, it was an adventure backing up, but that is also true of my E35.

Nevertheless, tend to agree with David re the A4 if yours works. Great engine (although mine is acting up lately - possibly because of what the good people at Moyer call the 40 year chemistry experiment in my fuel tank).


--Steve

 

[zdenka]

I must preface this with saying this is the type of question that brings out the religion in certain people (myself included?), so be ready for a lot of strong opinions. I will concede that we have some very experienced sailors on this site who have had E27s with outboards and are quite happy with them and have put them on in response to a failing inboard. That all acknowledged, I found that putting the Atomic 4 back into my prior E27 was one of the happiest things I ever did on that boat. To me, the usability and convenience and resale value all improved greatly with the inboard. I got really tired of messing around with a blasted engine hanging off the transom, and the engine was electric start, had an alternator etc. and was reliable, but it still just didn't match an inboard for performance or convenience. The first day out repowered with the A4 found me heading straight into 20+ knots and a nice Chesapeake chop. My crew member, who had sailed quite a bit with the outboard present, agreed that the inboard was fantastic. We were making good headway and the security was much improved. There was no comparison to the outboard and the prop pulling out of the water as we were getting bounced around. Everything about the motoring experience was improved. I would not worry about exploding with the A4. How many times do you hear of your neighbor's power boat exploding? The only ones I can think of were smoking at a fuel dock. Run your blower and you'll be just fine, and of note, if you have something like stove alcohol on board, gasoline for an outboard with a below deck tank etc., you are at risk of having explosive fumes, so run your blower anyway. Sometimes I think that when Westerbeke bought Universal, they started the campaign of FUD bashing gas inboards to increase their diesel sales... - In any event, the A4 is a solid little engine, and with minimal maintenance, a great little power plant. Fix the strut. It should be done anyway for hull integrity, and I think you'll find you have a much better solution in the long run. If you really want to get rid of the A4, I'll take it off your hands Final thoughts - a small outboard is just that, and will just leave you in a situation that can be dangerous when the weather kicks up and you can't push through the sea, and a good outboard is not cheap - you might be surprised how expensive it gets to do an outboard right, and then you could have just fixed the strut.

well I decided to go with the outboard I bought a nice little 5 horse evanrude long shaft much more manageable for me, that being sed make an offer and come on over and take it off my hands

 

[dt222]

Let us know how you make out with that 5 hourse. As stated by others, very strong feelings on this one. After repowering a Tartan 27 with a Yanmar diesel a number of years ago, and now with a A4 in my E27, I'd put more faith in the 30hp A4. The care and feeding of an A4 is more like a calling- some feel it, some not. As a suggestion (before you give a running A4 away), you may want to kep it there (start it up every now and again) just to keep your options open.

Good luck.

 

[steven]

Chris,

When I converted my Hunter, as soon as I was sure I was not going to retreat back to an IB, I had the exit hole for the inboard shaft and the fresh water intake professionally glassed in. One advantage of an OB is that it allows you to get rid of two holes in the bottom. You also might want to seal the hole where the exhaust exits the transom - or at least cap it off - so water and small living things can't get in.

You might also find that your trim changes a little bit. The OB is further aft, but lighter than the IB - so maybe float a little higher and the bow could lift a trifle. You might pick up a little speed (especially if you tilt the motor up when sailing).

--Steve

 

[Glyn Judson]

Steering in reverse with an outboard.

Chris and all, Our former boat, a 1979 E25+ was powered by a Yamaha 10HP long shaft outboard and I had the opposite experience backing down to what others have said. It was my practice to "steer" the boat in reverse using the engine tiller while holding the boat rudder centered in place with my other hand which I did on many an occasion as necessary. In one instance I have a vivid memory of weaving my way between two other boats on adjacent moorings in Isthmus Cove, Catalina Island in order to extricate myself from a very tight situation, yet with the confidence that my boat was so much more maneuverable with the outboard as compared to my having tried the same stunt with an inboard. I used the engine to cut and fill the boat, the result being that I turned the boat 180° without hitting my neighbors and got back out into clear water. The occasion was the failed first attempt at grabbing a string line mooring and I had no choice but to get out bow first for reasons that now fail me. Now I realize that it's a little different with an outboard in the narrow transom slot as on an E27 but I think there is still a little maneuverability that would allow one to steer in reverse using the engine as above. For what it's worth, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[Emerald]

well I decided to go with the outboard I bought a nice little 5 horse evanrude long shaft much more manageable for me, that being sed make an offer and come on over and take it off my hands

I hope the 5 horse works for you. I honestly think it is too small for the E27 displacement. I had a 5 horse on my Columbia 24 way back, which displaced something like 4500 lbs, and it was OK, but no reserve if it was really blowing and you were pushing against wind and tide. I had a 10 horse on my prior E-27, and I have memories of slow motoring on all but flat conditions - the outboard was good for about 4.5 knots versus an easy 6 knots with the Atomic 4 and an Indigo prop. Don't get caught trying to make progress against 15-20 knots on your nose in a scenario you can't sail in e.g. a narrow channel.

I vote with Don. Keep the A4 for a bit until you are sure you are happy with the 5 horse. I'm on the East coast, so it's not as simple as me driving over to take the A4 off your hands, but if you really are going to throw it in a dumpster, and there isn't someone else who wants it in your area, contact me back channel to see if we can work something out.