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Americas Cup Wk2
- Thread starter Dave G.
- Start date
Dave G.
1984 E30+ (SOLD)
I've really tried to get engaged with this event. Yes the "boats" are technological marvels but quite unrelatable to a sailboat, for me anyway. Not sure that the ultimate speed race is something that applies to sailing on many levels. They might as well replace the grinders with hydraulic electric pumps and give the skipper a remote control to remove all that weight and maybe they can go even faster. I watched at least a dozen times, 24 races in all, and the one last night was the only race that was tactical that I remember. That lasted until the 5th leg when the NZ boat just pulled away with ease in the drag race to the finish. Initially I was amazed at watching the foiling hulls flying around the course in a broadcast virtual video game grid but in the end it's just not for me I guess.
As you say, this last race was - finally - an actual sailboat race, with tactics, passes, excellent boat-handling, etc. I try to imagine making those tactical and positional calls given the speeds they're traveling at. In 'normal' racing, we often have a minute or so to plan the next cross or rounding. But then again, they're aided in these decisions with amazing software - but they still have to read puffs on the water, consider the tide, avoid the other guy's gas, etc.
At least one can see that the locals are into it, given the huge number of spectator boats surrounding the course.
At least one can see that the locals are into it, given the huge number of spectator boats surrounding the course.
Teranodon
Member III
With two exceptions, the finals were incredibly boring. If you ask me, the NZ boat was rigged! Well, ok, they all were...
The coverage was unbearably bad. The commentators were too busy hyping the races and spewing jock talk. They hardly said anything about what was happening on the water.
I hope they change the formula. Every time the boats tacked and raised their windward "foils", they looked like my dog taking a pee. Since millions of dollars are involved, why not back to the magic J-class yachts?
The coverage was unbearably bad. The commentators were too busy hyping the races and spewing jock talk. They hardly said anything about what was happening on the water.
I hope they change the formula. Every time the boats tacked and raised their windward "foils", they looked like my dog taking a pee. Since millions of dollars are involved, why not back to the magic J-class yachts?
p.gazibara
Member III
We were out on the water anchored not far from the course. Maybe the US coverage was shit, but here in NZ, it was fantastic. The commentators were incredibly bias, but absolutely hilarious.
The boats wizzed by and the sounded like jet airplanes. They were hitting 30+ kts in 6.5 kts of true wind. Unreal.
If people really want to see J class yachts race, why not just have a J class regatta? These boats are like the F1 to the NASCAR of the J Class.
Every race was tactical from the start.
-p
The boats wizzed by and the sounded like jet airplanes. They were hitting 30+ kts in 6.5 kts of true wind. Unreal.
If people really want to see J class yachts race, why not just have a J class regatta? These boats are like the F1 to the NASCAR of the J Class.
Every race was tactical from the start.
-p
Dave G.
1984 E30+ (SOLD)
Not the least bit interested in ever watching these "boats" again. They are are not sailing vessels crewed by sailors. They have a large crew of human pumps that keep the hydraulic pressure flowing so that computer controlled servos & rams can trim the sails and move the foils up and down. I guess the commentators had to talk about something because how do you describe what is going on when there is nothing to see or watch for on the boats themselves. The only action is when a helmsman runs across the deck to get to the other side. If you want to see fast sailboats then watch Iceboats race they go 60 knots and are singlehanded !
Just to correct a possible misconception - the boats are crewed almost entirely by sailors with multiple Olympic sailing medals and multiple world championship wins across many classes (some in more than one class) - not just a couple of actual sailors and the rest just pumping hydraulics. And, one of the challenges of this class is the small number of crew. They are actually crewed by the very very best sailors in the world.
I do understand about the qualifications of the crew.
They are the "best", point taken.
To a large extent, tho, (and it's probably just me) I equate it to my younger years of rallying, auto crossing and also turn-marshaling sports car races.
i.e. I could really relate personally to vehicles recognizable as variants of what I and my friends drove on the street.
Once the vehicles got more specialized than the mid level of formula cars, up where the "A cars" raced with their V-8 engines in an open-wheel configuration or the top couple of classes of sports-racers, I lost personal interest. It just was not relevant enough to me.
The open wheel classes for production engines, like Formula V (VW) and S (Saab), were still kind of cool because I could 'relate' on some everyday level, but still not nearly as interesting as, say, a well prepped Datsun 510 with a cage and meatball tires. Or, a Volvo 122S. These were both, in street configuration, models that I drove everyday, the later with lowered suspension.....
Sail boat racing is similar -- I do enjoy watching the melee of a bunch of dinghies or small keel boats sorting out skills and tactics on the course, like I once did on my boat at several Ranger 20 Nationals events. Admission: unlike like a 'real sailor' I did not start out by racing dinghies. (!)
Win or Lose, we had tons of fun! The trophies are long ago put away and dusty, but the thrill can still be spooled up in the mental screening room anytime!
They are the "best", point taken.
To a large extent, tho, (and it's probably just me) I equate it to my younger years of rallying, auto crossing and also turn-marshaling sports car races.
i.e. I could really relate personally to vehicles recognizable as variants of what I and my friends drove on the street.
Once the vehicles got more specialized than the mid level of formula cars, up where the "A cars" raced with their V-8 engines in an open-wheel configuration or the top couple of classes of sports-racers, I lost personal interest. It just was not relevant enough to me.
The open wheel classes for production engines, like Formula V (VW) and S (Saab), were still kind of cool because I could 'relate' on some everyday level, but still not nearly as interesting as, say, a well prepped Datsun 510 with a cage and meatball tires. Or, a Volvo 122S. These were both, in street configuration, models that I drove everyday, the later with lowered suspension.....
Sail boat racing is similar -- I do enjoy watching the melee of a bunch of dinghies or small keel boats sorting out skills and tactics on the course, like I once did on my boat at several Ranger 20 Nationals events. Admission: unlike like a 'real sailor' I did not start out by racing dinghies. (!)
Win or Lose, we had tons of fun! The trophies are long ago put away and dusty, but the thrill can still be spooled up in the mental screening room anytime!
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Dave G.
1984 E30+ (SOLD)
That may be true but their function on these boats has been reduced to providing human power for hydraulic control systems. For me there isn't any crew doing hands on sailing so there isn't anything to watch happen on the boats while they're racing. The other annoying aspect during the broadcast was the constant loud chatter of the hydraulics operating. Made the whole experience feel like a giant robotic machine rather than a sailboat. All just my personal experience and observations...
So what would be better for sailing as a spectator sport suitable for TV and advertising and therefore no longer tied to Newport "yachting" (which sorta ran its course)?
I have a hunch it is the human crew element, which is lost with huddled winch monkeys on bicycles surrounded by carbon fiber. The foil boats got boring because they got efficient and even though they're apparently really, really hard to sail, it doesn't look like that. And they quit capsizing--and one capsize shouldn;t be disaster, it should just be a recoverable error.
How about fifty-foot planing monohulls with the entire crew on trapezes? No foils, but still plenty fast--25 knots plus. Tacking and sail handling as coordinated as an NFL offense, with mistakes inevitable but not such to end a campaign. Spills and chills.
Yeah, I'm just against multihulls for America's Cup. Helicopters vs. planes. Just...different.
The Aussie 18--but more steroids.
I have a hunch it is the human crew element, which is lost with huddled winch monkeys on bicycles surrounded by carbon fiber. The foil boats got boring because they got efficient and even though they're apparently really, really hard to sail, it doesn't look like that. And they quit capsizing--and one capsize shouldn;t be disaster, it should just be a recoverable error.
How about fifty-foot planing monohulls with the entire crew on trapezes? No foils, but still plenty fast--25 knots plus. Tacking and sail handling as coordinated as an NFL offense, with mistakes inevitable but not such to end a campaign. Spills and chills.
Yeah, I'm just against multihulls for America's Cup. Helicopters vs. planes. Just...different.
The Aussie 18--but more steroids.
Teranodon
Member III
Radical changes are needed:
1. One-design boats. These should be hot but not outrageously exotic. Forty to fifty feet, raceable in 5-30+ knots. Reefing - why not? Monohulls with spinnakers (Ok, asymmetrical ones). The emphasis would be on sailing skills and tactics, not design. Something real sailors can identify with. Non-sailors: who cares, what do they know? They should be satisfied with anything, and the talking heads will know how to hype it up.
2. Fleet racing and scoring. That way, if one boat is running away with a race, there could still be interesting things to watch among the others who are competing for points.
3. Sail on the ocean or some crazy place like SF Bay, with real waves and real currents. Reaching legs too, not just up-and-down.
4. Bring back "Junkyard Jobo".
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p.gazibara
Member III
I’m afraid, once you foil, there is no going back. Even the Vendee Globe is on foiling boats now. (Though a few of the the non-foils did come close)
I enjoyed them pushing the boundaries of what’s possible. A different course would be interesting, but to think the SF bay is any more “crazy” than the Hauraki Gulf is funny. One of the coolest parts was that spectators could anchor their boats outside the boundaries to watch the race. I just hope they don’t sell out and move it to Dubai or some place without any sailing culture.
I think the exciting part of the America’s cup is how they captured the awe of the non sailors here. Would non sailors really care to see a one design class race where boats raced at a fraction of the speed?Thousands of kiwis skipped out of work on a Wednesday afternoon just to get out and see these crazy boats race.
The celebration afterwards reminded me of Chicago after the blackhawks won the Stanley cup. The city erupted, bars emptied into the viaduct and people were everywhere going nuts. Seattle didn’t even have the same enthusiasm when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl.
I’m guessing none of that translated well outside of NZ, especially because of COVID.
I enjoyed them pushing the boundaries of what’s possible. A different course would be interesting, but to think the SF bay is any more “crazy” than the Hauraki Gulf is funny. One of the coolest parts was that spectators could anchor their boats outside the boundaries to watch the race. I just hope they don’t sell out and move it to Dubai or some place without any sailing culture.
I think the exciting part of the America’s cup is how they captured the awe of the non sailors here. Would non sailors really care to see a one design class race where boats raced at a fraction of the speed?Thousands of kiwis skipped out of work on a Wednesday afternoon just to get out and see these crazy boats race.
The celebration afterwards reminded me of Chicago after the blackhawks won the Stanley cup. The city erupted, bars emptied into the viaduct and people were everywhere going nuts. Seattle didn’t even have the same enthusiasm when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl.
I’m guessing none of that translated well outside of NZ, especially because of COVID.
steven
Sustaining Member
Sailboat racing in general is not much of a video spectator sport. You would really have to do something different to make it interesting to watch (without actually being there). Maybe something like foils with conventional long stretches alternating with a series of close gates where they would have to zigzag alot. Falling behind by 20 seconds on the straightaway would not necessarily be fatal if can do faster tacks in the slalom.