Ample Power alternators and regulators?

[rwthomas1]

Hello All,
I am currently researching upgrading my alternator and regulator on my '83 E38. After doing a bit of reading it seems worth my while to go with a true "marine" alternator and smart regulator. I have looked at the Balmar product but it is pricey and I get the feeling that I am paying for a name.

I have come across Ample Power products, they make a marine line of alternators/regulators that have what appears to be a very good reputation along with a no-nonsense industrial quality look to the equipment.

Does anyone have any experience with Ample Power? The price is not cheap but its not the outrageous Balmar pricing either. Let me know what you all think, Thanks, RT

 

[Martin King]

You might check out Powerline alternators. I've used one on a Yanmar
that was hooked up to a Link 2000R with very good results. They are
less spendy and just as rugged as the other brands.
www.hehrpowersystems.com

Martin

 

[Chris A.]

Hey Rob,

I have an Ample Power NEXT regulator driving an aftermarket 100 amp alternator (I'm not sure who made the alternator- might be Ample) and the Ample Power Eliminator to "siphon" current from the alternator to charge the starter bank independently from the house bank. I like the setup and according to the previous owner it has performed flawlessly for 9 years. Coincidentally with your post, however, I am recently troubleshooting as I currently have zero alternator output.

The equipment appears to be well-made and Nigel Calder reviews them very positively in his book. The documentation / owners manuals leave a bit to be desired; some are available for your review at ample power's website.

 

[rwthomas1]

Chris,
You may want to check on www.pwrtap.com That is where I am currently getting my Ample info from. I believe they are offering a deal on the new Ample V3 regulator if you "trade in" your old one.... May be a good deal for you if your trouble turns out to be the reg?

Martin,
Thanks for the link, will look into Powerline and Link.

RT

 

[Chris A.]

Thanks for the PowerTap site. I found out my alternator is an Ample Power model, 106 A, so I will look at PowerTAP for either regulator or alternator replacement.

 

[Guy Stevens]

leece Neville

THe Ample power alternators are leece neville alternators with the interanal regulator removed. That is all. I have three of them two of them ample power and one standard ample power in my dock box at the moment. Leece Neville alternators are manufactured by powerline.

They are fine alternators, much much better than the balmars, and if properly cared for should outlive your boat........

Guy

 

[Chris A.]

Thanks for the info Guy.

Tell me if this sounds like the alternator is my culprit- I followed Nigel Calder's testing algorithm. With the engine running and the field wire disconnected from the alternator, I can wire a test lamp between the pos. terminal of my start battery and the field stud on the alternator. When I then use a multimeter between the output stud on the alternator and ground, I get exactly the resting house bank voltage, nothing more.

Does this make sense?

I first noticed there was a problem because my battery voltage slowly DECREASES from approx 12.7 V when motoring. This is after leaving the dock where I'm normally plugged in and have a battery charger topping off both house and starter banks. The regulator is set to absorb at 14.2 and float at 13 something, so I figured something must be wrong. The ignition light goes off when I start the engine, but I can't see that I have any alternator output if the voltage is in the twelves and dropping when I'm motoring.

I'm going to call Ample when they're open after the holiday...I'm planning on buying the same alternator and perhaps they can repair the current one and I'll have if for a spare.

Thanks,

 

[Captron]

One issue with my E-38 and the 32hp Universal is the belt size ... a standard 3/8 belt will have a hard time driving an alternator at high outputs ... say over 60 or 70 amps.

Also consider that a heavy duty alternator may not be necessary. If for example you are always charging at a rate of 40 amps or less, why pay for a 120 amp alternator? Sure the heavier alternator will run well below capacity and it may last longer ... the next couple of owners may get to appreciate it.

If on the other hand you have batteries that can take big charging rates such as Gel or AGM batteries, you may be able to reduce charging times some with the heavier alternator. But you probably won't get much improvement in charging times unless you have a big battery bank (400 amp hours plus) and deplete it to 50% or so before recharging.

Our house bank is 2 gel cells (group 31 about 190 amp hours) plus a small gel starting battery and we went with a 65amp P-type alternator and smart regulator ... my battery monitor has reported 50 amp charging rates but it usually tapers off quickly and mostly runs around 25 amps or so. It usually takes about an hour of engine running time to replace our typical daily deficit (we also run a 120 watt solar panel) of about 35-40 amp hours.

Our spare alternator is a 120 amp job that was on the engine but the re-charging times are about the same with the 65 amp and the belts last longer.

FWIW,
Capt Ron

 

[Chris A.]

Good points, Capt. We have 4 group 31 AGMs (Lifeline) in the house bank and a separate group 24 AGM starter battery...

 

[Loren Beach]

RPM's

When you guys install those Ample Power alternators, do you have a way to get the stock tach on the Universal Diesel instrument panel to read correctly?

Thanks,
Loren

 

[Captron]

The Xantrex and Balmar regulators (same ting mon) drive the tach from the voltage regulator ... the stator wire from the alternator goes to the regulator and the tach wire attaches to the regulator ... seems to work on mine ... the Ample Power regulator is different however...

 

[Captron]

Chris,

I had a similar problem ... turned out to be a bad Xantrex 3 stage regulator (which they replaced no problem, mon) since I was in the Bahamas at the time ... for a temporary fix ... I wired the iginition (ON) lead to a toggle switch and the switch to the field terminal on the alternator. Once the engine was running I would flip the switch on and get very robust charging 50-60 amps at 1500 rpm ... by monitoring battery voltage (I have gell cells which can take the high amps) I would shut the switch off and stop charging when the battery voltage reached 14.1 (max for gel cells ) ... This is somewhat risky because if you forget to turn off the charging, you can cook the electrolyte out of the battery. But it did serve until I could get a new regulator installed.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Loren, I found that the Balmar throws off the tachometer, but by measuring actual rpm's with my TinTach I discovered the discrepancy to be linear. When I look at the tach I now know that 3000 is really 2350, etc. I hasn't bothered me enough to try to see if there is a way to recalibrate (you can with some). In any event I adjust the throttle by how fast I want to go and then find an rpm that minimizes the vibrations.

 

[Chris A.]

Loren- My experience was the same as Geoff's- my tach ran high. Now it's not running at all A diesel mech. told me there should be some adjustment screws on the back of the tachometer that should fix the problem- but I haven't gotten around to check that (sounds too simple!).

Capt Ron- So your temporary fix in the islands is what I've done to test the alternator and I still get no juice out of it. I'm thinking my regulator is OK but the alternator is bad.

 

[Captron]

I was able to remove the alternator and take it to a local alternator shop for testing. They replaced one diode pack and the bearings for $65 ... it's now my spare.

My tach has an adjustment screw in the back. Some better timing lights can read actual rpm via a piece of reflecting tape on the crank pulley. I've also seen cheap optical tachs that work the same way ... better yet borrow one, check the rpm and then adjust the tach ...

Another thought is that if you know the max rpm ... just full throttle it for a few seconds, note the difference and adjust the tach accordingly.

Full throttle in neutral (for a few seconds with a warm engine) won't hurt your engine and in fact some manufacturers recommend this as part of the shut down process ... apparently it blows out accumulated soot and carbon.

 

[Chris A.]

Newalternator

Just a follow up on my part- I replaced the Ample power 106 A alternator with the same model and I'm in business. So I'll send the old one in for servicing to see if I can keep it around as a spare.

Cheers,

 

[mmackof]

Balmar 100A altenator/ Next Step 12v P regulator

THe Ample power alternators are leece neville alternators with the interanal regulator removed. That is all. I have three of them two of them ample power and one standard ample power in my dock box at the moment. Leece Neville alternators are manufactured by powerline.

They are fine alternators, much much better than the balmars, and if properly cared for should outlive your boat........

Guy

Guy,
My Next Step shows 2sec on one sec off green led and 3 sec on 1 sec off reg led. I've spend days chasing this issue. I don't understand the direct field energizing language in the trouble shooting guide for Ample Power. I've replaced the fuse holder and fuse and armor circular battery terminal connector. The documentation on the Next Step says that the regulator will shut down if it cannot see the battery i.e. red led 3 secs on 1 sed off. The green led indicated blk charge mode which to me means that the regulator is not off as the red led legend would indicate. I opened the battery temp sensor leads to try and isolate matters. House bank is two 6v lead acid in series and a new group 31 exide marine start battery.

Thoughts? Also is the start battery getting charged in the normal setup or do we need to opt in for the solenoid?

$$'s tight but do we chuck the rig and go for your setup?

Mort