Andy Schildhorn
Junior Member
WIth my Ericson 35 I have 125' of anchor chain. Seems like alot and very heavy. Any ideas of what is ideal? I am thinking that is a lot of extra weight in the bow and affecting sail performance.
Anchor Chain
- Thread starter Andy Schildhorn
- Start date
Its a matter of personal preference, the design of the boat, and how you use the boat. A friend of mine has 125ft of 1/4" chain on his 30ft O'Day. He anchors out all the time, has a windlass, and is not concerned with the performance of the boat, it seems to handle it just fine. Other sailors I know that are more racing oriented have just 15ft of chain and a Fortress aluminum anchor to save weight. They usually rent a mooring or slip if away from the home harbor. Also depends on the average depths you anchor in, the bottom "topography", etc.
125ft of chain seems excessive if you do not have a windlass. I have 50ft of 3/8" chain and its becoming a liability on my back. RT
125ft of chain seems excessive if you do not have a windlass. I have 50ft of 3/8" chain and its becoming a liability on my back. RT
Frank Langer
1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Just had a survey done, and the surveyor said the rule of thumb is one foot of chain per foot of boat length, modified depending on where/how one anchors.
On our 30 foot boat, I have 20 feet of chain, lots of anchor line/rode and an oversize Bruce anchor and back up Danforth anchor. We have anchored out in many different conditions, with winds up to 30 knots, and have been fine. I am very careful whenever we anchor to ensure the anchor is well placed and holding, checking several times throughout the early evening, and sometimes during the night as well.
I know it will be a bit different for a larger boat, but our experience may help as a guide.
Frank
On our 30 foot boat, I have 20 feet of chain, lots of anchor line/rode and an oversize Bruce anchor and back up Danforth anchor. We have anchored out in many different conditions, with winds up to 30 knots, and have been fine. I am very careful whenever we anchor to ensure the anchor is well placed and holding, checking several times throughout the early evening, and sometimes during the night as well.
I know it will be a bit different for a larger boat, but our experience may help as a guide.
Frank
mherrcat
Contributing Partner
And I have heard twice your boat length of chain, which kind of puts it right in the middle. Right now mine has about 25ft of 1/4" chain, and even that is a pain to haul in with a 17lb Danforth. I have some additional chain and a larger Fortress anchor that I have not deployed to the boat yet.
I'm not a great person to ask about this because I haven't even anchored out yet.
My concern is more with whether I will deplete my batteries and not be able to start the engine when I'm ready to leave...
I'm not a great person to ask about this because I haven't even anchored out yet.
My concern is more with whether I will deplete my batteries and not be able to start the engine when I'm ready to leave...Frank Langer
1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Mark,
Although I have anchored out often over the years, when we first bought our Ericson 30+ I was extremely careful about our electrical use for fear that we would deplete the batteries. Our previous boats didn't have 8 cabin lights, stereo, refrigerator, heater, etc.!
But I learned to monitor our ammeter and voltmetre carefully, and learned that of our total 186 amp hours, I can probably use up to about 60 amps or more without causing battery damage to our deep cycle batteries. I also learned that our cabin lights only use 1 amp per hour each, so using a couple of these for 3 hours after dark is no big deal; also our stereo uses minimal electricity, as does our depth sounder. The only "big ticket" items on our boat are the refrigerator (3.5 amps per hour when running) and the heater. So we only use those sparingly, but even with that we are probably under 40 amps from when we anchor in the late afternoon til we leave the next morning, and then the alternator recharges the batteries quite quickly with the engine running as we get underway.
I also don't use our starting battery for anything other than emergency starts, and periodic starts to keep it functional--ie. most of the time our "house" needs and morning start-up are all using our house batteries, leaving the fully charged starting battery as our back-up.
With all of this, we have become much more comfortable about anchoring out on this boat, and are enjoying our time at anchor with minimal worries.
Frank
1984 E30+
Although I have anchored out often over the years, when we first bought our Ericson 30+ I was extremely careful about our electrical use for fear that we would deplete the batteries. Our previous boats didn't have 8 cabin lights, stereo, refrigerator, heater, etc.!
But I learned to monitor our ammeter and voltmetre carefully, and learned that of our total 186 amp hours, I can probably use up to about 60 amps or more without causing battery damage to our deep cycle batteries. I also learned that our cabin lights only use 1 amp per hour each, so using a couple of these for 3 hours after dark is no big deal; also our stereo uses minimal electricity, as does our depth sounder. The only "big ticket" items on our boat are the refrigerator (3.5 amps per hour when running) and the heater. So we only use those sparingly, but even with that we are probably under 40 amps from when we anchor in the late afternoon til we leave the next morning, and then the alternator recharges the batteries quite quickly with the engine running as we get underway.
I also don't use our starting battery for anything other than emergency starts, and periodic starts to keep it functional--ie. most of the time our "house" needs and morning start-up are all using our house batteries, leaving the fully charged starting battery as our back-up.
With all of this, we have become much more comfortable about anchoring out on this boat, and are enjoying our time at anchor with minimal worries.
Frank
1984 E30+
mherrcat
Contributing Partner
That's good news. Not to change the subject from anchor chains, but what kind of refrigerator do you have? I have a small, portable Engle unit; don't have the model number or power consumption numbers handy. I have also recently replaced almost all incandescent cabin light bulbs with LEDs. I guess I should just bite the bullet, take the chance and anchor out and see what happens...
Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
Sounds like many are afraid to use their boat. If you have two banks and run on both when motoring and split the banks when not motoring you should have one bank in reserve for the start then next morning. I use bank 2 when not running the engine and usually crank on that bank the next morning after a night of raftup and running spreader lights for hours and other power needs.
I don’t have a refrigerator and if I did I would not run unless I had a dedicated starting battery and a large house bank.
I don’t have a refrigerator and if I did I would not run unless I had a dedicated starting battery and a large house bank.
Gmilburn
Member III
Jump Start Battery
Hi all,
While I do have two batteries in my house bank, I am an old boy scout, and also have one of those emergency "jump start" batteries on board. I guess its a bit of insurance that regardless of my power usage, I have a reserve. You can pick one up for about $70.
Hi all,
While I do have two batteries in my house bank, I am an old boy scout, and also have one of those emergency "jump start" batteries on board. I guess its a bit of insurance that regardless of my power usage, I have a reserve. You can pick one up for about $70.
Frank Langer
1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi Mark,
In reply to your question above, we have the Norcold conversion kit installed in our ice box, which uses 3.5 amps per hour of operation. This is one of two types of units that I've come across when doing my research on these. You can find it in the West Marine catalogue, though their prices are too high for it, but they will price match. Depending on the outside temp, how full the ice box is, and whether I start with an additional block of ice, it will cycle on off from 50% to 80% of full time, so you can calculate approximately how much battery it will use. We ensure the unit is cold before sleep time, and turn it off overnight. Similarly, we only use our electric heater rarely to take the edge off the chill (also have a propane heater if necessary).
A good monitoring system, and a back up starting battery, is very helpful and reassuring.
Frank.
In reply to your question above, we have the Norcold conversion kit installed in our ice box, which uses 3.5 amps per hour of operation. This is one of two types of units that I've come across when doing my research on these. You can find it in the West Marine catalogue, though their prices are too high for it, but they will price match. Depending on the outside temp, how full the ice box is, and whether I start with an additional block of ice, it will cycle on off from 50% to 80% of full time, so you can calculate approximately how much battery it will use. We ensure the unit is cold before sleep time, and turn it off overnight. Similarly, we only use our electric heater rarely to take the edge off the chill (also have a propane heater if necessary).
A good monitoring system, and a back up starting battery, is very helpful and reassuring.
Frank.
windjunkee
Member III
Just FYI,
PHRF Class rules require an anchor with at least the LOA in chain. Many offshore races require a second anchor with, again, the LOA in chain. More chain is okay and you can shorten the ratio when you do drop the hook.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason, E-32 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
PHRF Class rules require an anchor with at least the LOA in chain. Many offshore races require a second anchor with, again, the LOA in chain. More chain is okay and you can shorten the ratio when you do drop the hook.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason, E-32 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
Cory B
Sustaining Member
Might be about right
IMHO, 125 ft of chain is about right for your neck of the woods. Many anchorages are very deep (50+ ft) and short scope (3:1) is common due to the number of boats.
When we were last up there, we would often identify (and stay away from!) the boat anchored on mostly rope and/or with longer scope than everyone else --- they'd be the boat swinging wildly.
We currently use 125 ft of 1/4" HT Chain (with a windlass) + a bunch of nylon rope and a 35lb Delta. We were quite comfortable with our set up in most conditions.
IMHO, 125 ft of chain is about right for your neck of the woods. Many anchorages are very deep (50+ ft) and short scope (3:1) is common due to the number of boats.
When we were last up there, we would often identify (and stay away from!) the boat anchored on mostly rope and/or with longer scope than everyone else --- they'd be the boat swinging wildly.
We currently use 125 ft of 1/4" HT Chain (with a windlass) + a bunch of nylon rope and a 35lb Delta. We were quite comfortable with our set up in most conditions.
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Tom Plummer
Member III
We have 70' of 5/16" HT chain with 600' of 9/16" line attached to a 35lb bruce anchor. We normal anchor 3 out of 4 nights when cruising often anchoring in depths of 150'. We would anchor more but we don't have refrigeration so every 4th day need ice. To handle all that rode we do have an electric windlass for which we do have adequate battery capacity with 2 true deep cells for the house and a dedicated starting battery. Additional we have a hand crank for our Yanmar 3GM30F just in case, and yes we have started the engine with it.
robjpowell
Member II
Tom,
I am interested in the setup you must have for handling your chain/rode and windlass. Could you post a picture of the modifications made to allow it? I am still struggling with picturing/planning were to store the chain -do I remove the lead in the bow, should it be forward of the V-berth etc, how to get the chain/rode into wherever I store it, how much do I need to reinforce the deck to handle the windlass etc. Any pointers on modifying the 35-2 would be appreciated.
Rob
I am interested in the setup you must have for handling your chain/rode and windlass. Could you post a picture of the modifications made to allow it? I am still struggling with picturing/planning were to store the chain -do I remove the lead in the bow, should it be forward of the V-berth etc, how to get the chain/rode into wherever I store it, how much do I need to reinforce the deck to handle the windlass etc. Any pointers on modifying the 35-2 would be appreciated.
Rob
Sweet mother! Anchoring in 150' of water to an Rhode Islander is mindblowing! How the heck do you know that the anchor has even set? There must be so much spring in that rode? How do you get any bite with short scopes like that? You must drag frequently in those parts?
RT
Reality check
I'm looking at the 80 feet of 5/16th G3 chain in my driveway, prior to having it regalvanized (quote is $150 from Atlas here in LA). The chain came with my 1985 32-3, along with 200 feet of line. I conclude the PO must have been Atlas or Hercules. The boat doesn't have an electric windlass (and of course this chain won't fit a windlass anyhow). The most likely use of all that chain would be anchoring in challenging conditions, perhaps in a seaway or in high winds or facing a lee shore, or at least in one of our crowded deep-water coves.
Looking at all that the chain, and dragging it around, there is simply no way I am going to haul in 80 feet of chain over a pitching bow pulpit at night. Maybe when I was 25. So now to compromise, as usual.
I will reduce to 32 feet of chain--one boat length. Fact is, 80 feet in the chain locker of a 32 puts it bow-down, or did to mine. True, an all-chain rode only needs 4:1 scope, and in our deep water I will not even get 7:1 now.with chain and line. Having dragged many times--in the non-threatening Chesapeake and Biscayne Bay--I don't sleep well on board in unfamiliar anchorages. But the reality is that generally we pick up a mooring at Catalina. We typically anchor only to fish or swim (seldom, the water's cold) in benign conditions. So I'm giving up the ground tackle necessary for secure anchoring in all conditions for the ease of use of a chain/Nylon rode. I just have to remember that my equipment is meant only for benign conditions.
"How will you actually use the boat?" is the question I asked myself and answered.
I'm looking at the 80 feet of 5/16th G3 chain in my driveway, prior to having it regalvanized (quote is $150 from Atlas here in LA). The chain came with my 1985 32-3, along with 200 feet of line. I conclude the PO must have been Atlas or Hercules. The boat doesn't have an electric windlass (and of course this chain won't fit a windlass anyhow). The most likely use of all that chain would be anchoring in challenging conditions, perhaps in a seaway or in high winds or facing a lee shore, or at least in one of our crowded deep-water coves.
Looking at all that the chain, and dragging it around, there is simply no way I am going to haul in 80 feet of chain over a pitching bow pulpit at night. Maybe when I was 25. So now to compromise, as usual.
I will reduce to 32 feet of chain--one boat length. Fact is, 80 feet in the chain locker of a 32 puts it bow-down, or did to mine. True, an all-chain rode only needs 4:1 scope, and in our deep water I will not even get 7:1 now.with chain and line. Having dragged many times--in the non-threatening Chesapeake and Biscayne Bay--I don't sleep well on board in unfamiliar anchorages. But the reality is that generally we pick up a mooring at Catalina. We typically anchor only to fish or swim (seldom, the water's cold) in benign conditions. So I'm giving up the ground tackle necessary for secure anchoring in all conditions for the ease of use of a chain/Nylon rode. I just have to remember that my equipment is meant only for benign conditions.
"How will you actually use the boat?" is the question I asked myself and answered.
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I would generally agree with your compromise and rationale. When we bought our boat it had 15' (yikes!) of chain and about 150' of three-strand rode.
Having no windlass and generally anchoring in shallow waters in the lower Columbia River, I changed to 30' of chain and about 250' of nylon line for the main rode.
This has held without a problem in winds up to 30 kts -- sand/mud bottom, 20 feet deep, and the 13-S Danforth dug in very deep = had to be reverse-powered out the next day!
Loren
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Well, I have to admit I am a big fan of Mr. Fagan who wrote a nice little book on anchoring... Conviniently, he call South California his home waters . His setup was tested hundreds of times by SB Sailing Center charter fleet, so it's a lot of experimental data too. So, it must be working
That setup calls for 30-40 feet of chain for primary anchor and 20-30 for the secondary one. For 30-40 feet of depth, which is usual for Channel Islands anchorages, they carry about 200 feet of rope and 40 feet of chain for the primary, typically oversized Bruce, and 350+ feet of rope + 30 feet of chain for the stern Danforth. The stern anchor goes down first in bow-and-stern engagements, hense the double lenght of the stern line...
IMHO, full chain is definitely warranted for abrasive (coral or lava rock) bottoms or for truly bad conditions with winds and currents. In California we have it easy. With mud, sand and kelp prevailing, full chain is... hmm... shall we say a true sign of long-range cruiser who is ready for everything! I give those folks my true respect.
On the opposite side, there have been at least one published case when a boat was lost on lee shore because of a full-chain anchor rode. Latitude38 had an article about a poor cruiser who could not release or cut the chain under tension in high winds and building seas and ended up with the boat on rocky beach... I have to admit, if it was me on the bow with the hacksaw, it probably would end the same way. So I promised my Admiral that we will never have any chain, cable or rope on the boat that I would not be able to disengage in any conditions imaginable. Battery-operated angle grinder, anyone?
So, chose your medicine wisely.
Regards,
Stan
. His setup was tested hundreds of times by SB Sailing Center charter fleet, so it's a lot of experimental data too. So, it must be working That setup calls for 30-40 feet of chain for primary anchor and 20-30 for the secondary one. For 30-40 feet of depth, which is usual for Channel Islands anchorages, they carry about 200 feet of rope and 40 feet of chain for the primary, typically oversized Bruce, and 350+ feet of rope + 30 feet of chain for the stern Danforth. The stern anchor goes down first in bow-and-stern engagements, hense the double lenght of the stern line...
IMHO, full chain is definitely warranted for abrasive (coral or lava rock) bottoms or for truly bad conditions with winds and currents. In California we have it easy
. With mud, sand and kelp prevailing, full chain is... hmm... shall we say a true sign of long-range cruiser who is ready for everything! I give those folks my true respect.On the opposite side, there have been at least one published case when a boat was lost on lee shore because of a full-chain anchor rode. Latitude38 had an article about a poor cruiser who could not release or cut the chain under tension in high winds and building seas and ended up with the boat on rocky beach... I have to admit, if it was me on the bow with the hacksaw, it probably would end the same way. So I promised my Admiral that we will never have any chain, cable or rope on the boat that I would not be able to disengage in any conditions imaginable. Battery-operated angle grinder, anyone?
So, chose your medicine wisely
.Regards,
Stan
Rocinante33
Contributing Partner
Well, I have to admit I am a big fan of Mr. Fagan who wrote a nice little book on anchoring... Conviniently, he call South California his home waters
I am a fan of Brian Fagan's, too. He wrote the definitive cruising guides to our Channel Islands and to the entire California coast. As a former professor of Anthropology at UC Santa Barbara, he has written many interesting looking books with one due to be published soon which seems very timely; "The Attacking Ocean, the Past, Present & Future of Rising Sea Levels." If you search for his name on Amazon, you will get 20 pages worth of titles.
Well, I am not much into anthropology myself, but we do own all Fagan's cruising guides and yes - Fire Eater is set with anchoring system according to his formulas . Cannot really do a second anchor on the bow, but everything else is there . We rarely use anchors in SF Bay, but we do hope to give them a good workout next summer.
Regards,
Stan
. Cannot really do a second anchor on the bow, but everything else is there . We rarely use anchors in SF Bay, but we do hope to give them a good workout next summer.Regards,
Stan