Bottom Job - Revisited

[Thursty30]

I will be at the yard this weekend to hopefully complete removing the motor from the boat, pull the winches for a service, and just generally clean/organize my work space as I will be starting some of my other projects once the motor is gone.

One of my ancillary missions is to visit with the service department and organize having them sand/prep my bottom for new paint. I have already received a preliminary quote over the phone, so I am prepared for the cost.

Bare with me, admittedly I am not well versed on that which I am about to speak. That said, I am planning on relocating a couple of thru hulls above the water line (credit jkenan), which will obviously require some patching of holes. A process that as I understand would leave a similar condition as a blister repair, IE no gel coat. (I will complete this before I have them prep the bottom).

That means that I need to have them sand the boat down to the gel coat below the water line? Am I over thinking this because that is industry standard when you pay for a prep, or would they simply sand to smooth in anticipation of another layer of anti-fouling with out proper guidance?

Basically, I am looking for some advice on specific verbiage, request, ETC, that I should use when talking to the service department about my objectives so that when they complete the "prep", I would more or less just need to buy and apply the bottom paint systems (post repairing old thru-hulls, other items that might appear to need repair after sanding).

If I am way off base, please correct my path. I have read through this forum, numerous others, articles in all the major sailing rags. Just when I get the ah-ha moment I , read something completely contradictory, or at least more in depth that only confuses me further. Is there any reading you would classify as "definitive" on the topics of bottom jobs?

This seems to be the most concise info I have found, and what I am drawing my plans from in the absence of any direct anecdotal guidance you all might offer - http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/bottom-line.asp

As I my goal of sailing away this fall becomes more realistic, the possibility that I will not haul for a couple years weighs heavy so I really want to get these things right, which leads to the ever unproductive habit of overthinking .

Thanks in advance.

 

[e38 owner]

thoughts

I have done the bottom myself many times including the prep. I have also had it done at a yard. Depending where the boat is kept diy is not a possibility although preferred.

If the boat is already out of the water and DIY is an option that might make sense
It is all about buying good tools and ppe

Thoughts
Get written detailed quotes from the yard before work begins of what you want done. Detailed is important. So when something changes the shock factor is removed.
At one point I wanted the bottom cleaned and another coat of paint rolled on. The yard sanded, Epoxied and sprayed with no contact with me. Sent a very large bill. Because by quote was detailed and in writing they stood by original estimate although they did three times the work.

If the paint on the boat is in good condition then paint removal is not needed if you pick the the right type of paint.
If you have poor adhesion then it is a different story.


Prep depends on what paint is on the boat now and what you want it replaced with. What is the condition and is there a barrier coat. Prep can range from a clean and roll to the entire job. If you can live with a paint compatible to what is on there now much the better. Factors include location of boat, ablative or hard paints, length of time.

Determine how you want to maintain the hull going forward and pick the appropriate paint.

 

[Christian Williams]

I guess you have a yard that permits DIY, which is good. If there's a knowledgeable supervisor to handle their part of the job, I'd go over everything with him.

He'll have strong opinions about the sequence of work, as well as how to do it.

I'd make that guy my new best friend, and try to get him to supervise me, too.

Barrier coat?

 

[Thursty30]

I have done the bottom myself many times including the prep. I have also had it done at a yard. Depending where the boat is kept diy is not a possibility although preferred.

If the boat is already out of the water and DIY is an option that might make sense
It is all about buying good tools and ppe

Thoughts
Get written detailed quotes from the yard before work begins of what you want done. Detailed is important. So when something changes the shock factor is removed.
At one point I wanted the bottom cleaned and another coat of paint rolled on. The yard sanded, Epoxied and sprayed with no contact with me. Sent a very large bill. Because by quote was detailed and in writing they stood by original estimate although they did three times the work.

If the paint on the boat is in good condition then paint removal is not needed if you pick the the right type of paint.
If you have poor adhesion then it is a different story.

Prep depends on what paint is on the boat now and what you want it replaced with. What is the condition and is there a barrier coat. Prep can range from a clean and roll to the entire job. If you can live with a paint compatible to what is on there now much the better. Factors include location of boat, ablative or hard paints, length of time.

Determine how you want to maintain the hull going forward and pick the appropriate paint.

My yard allows DIY work, the only disclaimer in the storage contract is against competing professional work with out prior approval from marina, confirmed I could paint my self when I called to quote the sanding. I am going to have them do the sanding mostly because of time constraints, 4 hours rnd trip with limited availability out side of weekends is not efficient and I have A LOT of other projects.

I have no idea what paint is on the boat now, whether there is a barrier coat/condition of, nor how to diagnose that other than asking the service supervisor. Advice I will heed. That said, assuming that the hull and paint are in good enough condition and meet my desires for maintenance going forward, I am still going to have to repair the holes where the old thru hulls were at a minimum. Could I really just sand and apply bottom paint to those patches with out applying a barrier coat (epoxy resin sealer per the article cited)?

Appreciate the insight guys, I do understand that since you cant see/touch my boat the best approach is likely going to be following the service supervisor's guidance and obtaining a well written quote. I just want to make sure I can smell if he's not knowledgeable or over selling.

 

[e38 owner]

The patched area will do fine.
I question moving a thru hull. I would just make sure you have good thru hulls and valves, groco brand
That being said the area of the repair will grow so you can get good adhesion and fairing.
I like west epoxy because it is easy to work worth. The disadvantage of West is it takes a longer time to dry than polyester and thus much longer to do.
Also Epoxy will stick to polyester but polyester will not stick to epoxy. so future repairs can be difficult

After you do the repair you can cover the repair area with barrier coat or use a west additive and fair into the existing area. Much like if you had spot in which the paint had failed you may not choose to strip the entire bottom but rather repair that area.

I bought the following book and reference material
https://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Hul...597593&sr=1-6&keywords=fiberglass+boat+repair
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/polyster-epoxy.asp

 

[Christian Williams]

Funny, I wondered about repositioning through-hulls, too. Just be sure you feel it's mandatory, and not one of those fixed ideas we get in our heads.

 

[JSM]

Thrusty30, I'm also in Chicago and in the process of doing my bottom. Which yard are your stored in? If you are at Skyway or Crowley's let me know, I can stop by and look at it for you if you like.

 

[Loren Beach]

Prep for bottom paint is well discussed here and elsewhere.
I have seen thru hull fitting above the waterline replaced on some of the 80's Ericson's, and the owners upgraded to bronze or marlon(r) depending on their considered opinion. Both materials will outlive you. Matter of fact, as long as the new exits are above the waterline, SS would work just fine, too.

Moving any opening in the hull, takes more labor. The Gougeon Bros have some excellent guidance on how to grind back the edges and how to lay in new glass. Go to www.westsystem.com and have a look at their manuals in pdf format.

Getting a good finish on the topside repair might take some work. If you hull gel coat is in good shape, I would spray or brush on new matching gel coat and buff it out. It's hard to get a perfect match, even for experienced folks, but I find that I can come close enough to pass the 7 foot test most of the time.

Do post up some pix of the parts you want to change, when you can.