Core damage? E35-2 chainplate leak

R

riptide

Junior Member
Hello all,

We got a survey when we bought this boat earlier this year. 1975 Ericson 35 MK-II "Venus". I asked they guy if the chainplate leak would compromise the deck core, but he assured me that it was a good boat and the deck was sealed with epoxy around the hole where the chainplate protrudes and that water could not reach the core.

After recent Northern California rains, we found a cushion in the settee to be soaked. Today, I removed old sealant from the deck and around the chainplate. There's not much room to poke around in there, but it appears that the core could be wet. I don't want to re seal the thing if there's more work to be done, but is it necessary to remove the chainplate? The deck is not at all spongy.

I removed the wood trim that covers the chainplate inside and it appears that someone has fiberglassed over the bulkhead under the chainplate. I'm also curious why the bulkhead was covered with that paneling. That photo does not want to rotate, sorry.

So many mysteries here and so much to learn. I'm experienced with repairing just about everything but boats... thank you in advance for any advice.
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Guy Stevens

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Trade you.....

I will trade you a brief, but detailed enough to follow write up on how to repair this so that it won't leak for years for........

A close up of the chain plate at as large a scale as this site will allow you to post... (I think I see something there that I would like to point out.).

Guy
:)
 
R

riptide

Junior Member
Guy Stevens said:
I will trade you a brief, but detailed enough to follow write up on how to repair this so that it won't leak for years for........

A close up of the chain plate at as large a scale as this site will allow you to post... (I think I see something there that I would like to point out.).

Guy
:)
Click to expand...

Thanks, Guy

that was a good photo that got compressed when I uploaded it..
.. I'll post it online and send you a link in an hour or so
 
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Guy Stevens

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Bedding Chain Plates

Brief, cause I am under the gun on time for other things.

1> Get rid of the ss covers, they expand and contract at a significantly different rate than the deck, Also they heat up and break the bond with part if not all of the bedding compound on the bottom.
2> Make up some covers out of 1/8 G-10. This is an epoxy laid up fiberglass sheet. It expands and contracts at about the same rate as the deck, does not heat up like ss and can be painted to match the deck perfectly. Paint the plate to match the deck, it will look great. Clean the bottom well before bedding and if you want lightly rough it up with some scotch bright red to remove the shine from the bottom. (If you have not cut this before the secret is to use a cheap $35 tile saw from Harbor Freight and water.
3> Fill the screw holes in from the old plate.
4> Rebed using your choice of a good bedding compound. I recommend Sika flex 291. Use lots of bedding compound, you want the plate to be about 1/8 inch above the deck when you are done.
5> Once you have gently pushed the plate down so that there is at least 1/8 of an inch of bedding compound between the two surfaces
6> Using binder clips on the chainplate hold the plate down for a couple of days while the bedding compound kicks.

We have two E-boats that we redid this way 8 years ago. Both are still completely water tight even with hard sailing and drastic temperature changes.

With the SS plates we were never able to keep the chain plates from leaking for longer than 6 months or so.

We have a number of other boats that have had the same bedding done, that are also not leaking. The E-boats are the oldest however.

Here is one of them done, see what you think.
chainpate-new-way-1.jpg

There are a couple of other tricks that we use, but the basics are these. We also tend to remove the chainplate, and seal the edges of the area between the deck skins around the chainplate with Epoxy. Filling in the area where the core may be exposed should the chain plate leak. or have been leaking for 30 Plus years.

Guy
:)
 
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J

JPS27

Member III
Guy,
is that the sika flex filling the void between the chainplate cover and the chainplate, or is it some other material. I'm guessing the former. Thanks,
Jay
 
Guy Stevens

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Sika 291

I use Sika 291 almost exclusively in doing bedding. There are a few exceptions, but not a lot.

Guy
:)
 
Guy Stevens

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Fixing the core issue

Just as a quick aside because I mentioned it.

Core repair if it isn't extreme damage.

We remove the chain plate. Using a dremel tool and the wood carving bits, we clean out the area between the two skins through the slot that the chain plate used to occupy. This will also give you an idea if you are going to have to go farther out than you can get with the Dremel, or to use the slot to try and dry out the area.

Once the core has been removed for at least 1/4 - 1/2" all around the chain plate hole and as much as possible vacuumed out and cleaned with acetone on a small brush, we drill 4 holes one on each side of the chain plate slot into the cavity we have created.

The chain plate is coated with release agent (canned paste wax works well).

The chain plate is reinstalled and the bottom sealed with plumbers putty.

Using the four holes drilled earlier the cavity is filled with thickened (ketchup consistency), epoxy and fumed silica. Using a epoxy syringe.

Once the epoxy kicks, the chain plate is removed, and you have a perfect slot, instead of whatever the manufacture cut into the deck.

Dewax all surfaces.

I then like to slightly chamfer the edge of the new slot so that there is a "o ring" of bedding compound that exists around the chain plate at the end of the bedding process. \ / Just the edge, and don't get crazy doing this.

All surfaces are cleaned and if necessary painted, and the chain plate replaced, and the new G-10 cover fitted as above.

Guy
:)
 
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R

riptide

Junior Member
Wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain. Where do you buy the G-10? I'll take a pic of the top of the chainplate when I get back to the boat later today.
 
tenders

tenders

Innocent Bystander
"Daddy, where does G-10 come from?"

Well, when epoxy and fiberglass love each other very much, and press themselves together very tightly in an industrial manufacturing process, the result can be acquired at mcmaster.com in larger sheets, or on eBay from sellers including Norva Plastics (username hman16). G10 is also called "garolite."

You can cut that slot out with a line of drill holes, then sand down the remaining stuff between the holes with a file.

Guy, this is a beautiful installation, I have two questions:
- why not just epoxy the G10 slab to the deck itself, and fill the void with sealant from the top, around the chainplate?
- how would you feel about butyl instead of Sikaflex for this application? I can imagine jamming quite a bit of butyl into that gap. In fact, I've done that on my boat with the old stainless covers (ie without the slick G10).
 
Guy Stevens

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Not a fan of bytual in this application

The adhesive and rubber nature of the sika 291 allow it to adhere and move while still being water tight. The byutal has no adhesive qualities and I am fairly certain would leak without the screws.

Getting rid of the screw holes gets rid of 4 more points of leaking.

Straight epoxy is going to crack as the chainplates move, which is one of the things that causes them to leak on almost every boat. This allows them to move and keeps them sealed.

Oh I cut the slots out with a dremel, or have a friend that cuts them out on his mill. The dremel works good, if someone sprays a little water on the cutting process. (Out of one of those little squirt bottles like window cleaner comes in).

Guy
:)
 
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R

riptide

Junior Member
I added a couple photos of the top of the chainplate, Guy. Same link as above.
 
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G

garryh

Member III
for the life of me I cannot figure out how to start a new thread with a new question :-|
But this seems as good a place as any to ask. I have the standard bulkhead repairs coming at me in the Spring (1978 E 35-2), leaking around chainplates. Boat is several hours away and tarped... can someone please tell me the thickness of the main bulkhead plywood..? Much appreciated... tks, garry
 
Christian Williams

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hi Garry

The 'Post New Thread" tab appears when you go to a forum home (M&M, For Sale, Design and so on). Adding to an existing thread when possible is great--keeps related info in one place.
 
G

garryh

Member III
thanks Christian... got it now :)
No idea why I could not see it earlier!
Hoping someone who has got into the guts of these chainplate repairs can tell me the thickness of the bulkhead plywood. thanks
 
tenders

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Pretty sure bulkhead plywood is 3/4" but no way would I invest in a lot of materials solely on anyone's recollection.

There are many ways of effecting this repair - mine did not require anything to start out as the thickness of the original bulkhead. I used a slab of 1/2" G10 that was glassed into the bulkhead, and epoxied to the tapered edge of the bulkhead with increasingly larger layers of fiberglass cloth.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-and-Bulkhead-replace/page3&p=52891#post52891
 
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