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DIY Boatyards a dying breed?
- Thread starter dhill
- Start date
dhill
Member III
Yes, in theory. The boatyard rates the Ericson 35-3 as 350 sq. ft. If you take actual dimensions (35.5 x 11.33), that comes out to 402 sq. ft.
Dave
bsangs
E35-3 - New Jersey
My marina is located in what's considered a state park, so we aren't allowed to paint the bottom. "Due to strict EPA, State, Park & Marina Regulations, all bottom painting will be done by Liberty Landing Marina." But that seems to be the only restriction. It allows owners to visit the boat on the hard to do whatever projects need doing. It offers tons of services, but you can do them all yourself too. (It's a Suntex-owned marina, if that matters.)
My Ericson 32 was essentially held hostage for nearly 3 years at a small Annapolis area marina for similar problems. The marina is mostly trailer boats which don't take up much space, buy gas and parts, plus the marina is part of a boat rental network which I understand is lucrative. The owner has been heard to tell people more than once that he doesn't want sail boats around because we don't spend money there. Message received.
Long story short is that the marina owner would at first only let owners work in the cabin and above the rub rails, but knowing my background let me work on the rails till COVID hit and he changed his mind on that because he said his guys needed work. I've watched them sand through bottom paint into white to do bottom painting, the marina's workers had ZERO idea about how to do fiberglass repairs, and the owner wanted to charge a LOT for their services. The boat got stuck there then the storage fees almost doubled over a three year period.
The owner kept saying his people or an "approved" (by him) contractor had to do ANY bottom work because of the tough State and EPA rules, which is utter nonsense. I've done plenty of bottom work in other area marinas and know of others up and down the coast where it's allowed. The basic requirements are always the same about ground tarps and dustless sanding. (attach a shop vac) No problem.
Any work at that point had to be done by his constant turnover of untrained workers or a contractor willing to give kick-backs to the marina owner. Only one contractor was willing and despite being a great guy he spends more time at the other local marinas so he was never available to do work. I've watched the marina owner run other contractors off from starting to put winter wrap on people's boats.
I got to the point of buying another boat (ODay 322) and keep it at a small all-sail marina where we help each other. (Hammock Island) This summer finally put my dingy outboard on the Ericson then moved it to a DIY marina (White Rocks) where a friend bought it and I'm looking forward to helping him with her. I'll take the ODay there soon to replace a through hull and pull the mast to replace the wiring.
Their final act of screwing an owner was when we went to splash the Ericson to move it. The marina owner asserted that even though the person I bought her from had paid for a round trip, I wasn't the original owner and their contract didn't convey. That meant I had to ALSO pay for the boat to be launched even though the marina had already been paid to do so.
Yes, some true butt holes exist.
Long story short is that the marina owner would at first only let owners work in the cabin and above the rub rails, but knowing my background let me work on the rails till COVID hit and he changed his mind on that because he said his guys needed work. I've watched them sand through bottom paint into white to do bottom painting, the marina's workers had ZERO idea about how to do fiberglass repairs, and the owner wanted to charge a LOT for their services. The boat got stuck there then the storage fees almost doubled over a three year period.
The owner kept saying his people or an "approved" (by him) contractor had to do ANY bottom work because of the tough State and EPA rules, which is utter nonsense. I've done plenty of bottom work in other area marinas and know of others up and down the coast where it's allowed. The basic requirements are always the same about ground tarps and dustless sanding. (attach a shop vac) No problem.
Any work at that point had to be done by his constant turnover of untrained workers or a contractor willing to give kick-backs to the marina owner. Only one contractor was willing and despite being a great guy he spends more time at the other local marinas so he was never available to do work. I've watched the marina owner run other contractors off from starting to put winter wrap on people's boats.
I got to the point of buying another boat (ODay 322) and keep it at a small all-sail marina where we help each other. (Hammock Island) This summer finally put my dingy outboard on the Ericson then moved it to a DIY marina (White Rocks) where a friend bought it and I'm looking forward to helping him with her. I'll take the ODay there soon to replace a through hull and pull the mast to replace the wiring.
Their final act of screwing an owner was when we went to splash the Ericson to move it. The marina owner asserted that even though the person I bought her from had paid for a round trip, I wasn't the original owner and their contract didn't convey. That meant I had to ALSO pay for the boat to be launched even though the marina had already been paid to do so.
Yes, some true butt holes exist.
Bolo
Contributing Partner
Tin Kicker, please send me a private message with the name of that marina so I never, ever go there as a transient on the bay. Even though the marina owner does sound like a jerk, posting the marina name so everyone can see might be crossing the line OR it could be seen as a public service. 
pm sent with the name. Publicly I don't want to post it as I am sure the owner would legally harass anybody saying something negative.Tin Kicker, please send me a private message with the name of that marina so I never, ever go there as a transient on the bay. Even though the marina owner does sound like a jerk, posting the marina name so everyone can see might be crossing the line OR it could be seen as a public service.
Shouldn't be an issue for much of anybody here though. Few sailboats over 30 ft would go there because it's shoaled so bad to get to the fuel dock. There's 6 ft if hugging the docks but under 5 feet if a boat length away. The teacher I bought the boat from kept it there because while it was tight, she could walk from her house.
You should post the name of the business.
I'll pm it if anybody in the area wants to avoid the place.
But again, the owner is very well off I don't need the aggravation of dealing with him anymore.
Bolo
Contributing Partner
I read the Yelp reviews for the marina and they, for the most part, are very bad.
kapnkd
kapnkd
It was difficult back in Miami and even Sarasota even during the 70’s & 80’s to find yards that would let you do your own or limited work. (Got a couple great fond stories I can tell about a now long time gone yard WAY up the Miami River we found and were hauled at!!)
Can’t even imagine what it’s like today!!!
…Best decision we made after moving to SE Michigan was to join our ‘Ford Yacht Club’! It’s got the most land of all US yacht clubs and boasts/has all the facilities for haul outs and launches. BEST PART…it’s dependent upon membership involvement in all necessary boat related operations and club maintenance in return for their required annual “Work Hours” (16).
Additionally, we’re a tight knit group always helping each other out be it a simple helping hand or “Been there done it - here’s what I did” solution.
If it all sounds altruistic, it’s really not!
…Been a member since ‘90 and it is still the case today! Yard tasks such as pulling & launching, storage & shoring are common annual jointly shared tasks. (This includes mast removal and Spring installation.)
Things even such as removing my worn out A4 engine and replacing it with a diesel became an eager joint project with amazingly skilled and knowledgable fellow members!!
We have options of remaining on the “Hard” through the summer as well when needed for extra long repairs/maintenance!
I would suggest/recommend looking into your local area for club memberships and what they too offer for services as another option!
For us, initial membership fees quickly were amortized in just less than 5 years! …After that, it was pure bonus to also have a great clubhouse including a nice lounge, bar, restaurant with great food, children’s playground, now even a pool and - OF COURSE - good friends from now over these many years!
…OHHH!!! Another added bonus was the Affiliated Yacht Club directory! When cruising, you can visit other clubs at very reasonable recipe rates (most offer even the first one or two nights at no charge!)
After first joining, we travelled to Hawaii and actually visited and were welcomed at a very nice YC on Oahu!!!
…The gist of this is you may have more resources at your local fingertips than you’ve realized (???).
Can’t even imagine what it’s like today!!!
…Best decision we made after moving to SE Michigan was to join our ‘Ford Yacht Club’! It’s got the most land of all US yacht clubs and boasts/has all the facilities for haul outs and launches. BEST PART…it’s dependent upon membership involvement in all necessary boat related operations and club maintenance in return for their required annual “Work Hours” (16).
Additionally, we’re a tight knit group always helping each other out be it a simple helping hand or “Been there done it - here’s what I did” solution.
If it all sounds altruistic, it’s really not!
…Been a member since ‘90 and it is still the case today! Yard tasks such as pulling & launching, storage & shoring are common annual jointly shared tasks. (This includes mast removal and Spring installation.)
Things even such as removing my worn out A4 engine and replacing it with a diesel became an eager joint project with amazingly skilled and knowledgable fellow members!!
We have options of remaining on the “Hard” through the summer as well when needed for extra long repairs/maintenance!
I would suggest/recommend looking into your local area for club memberships and what they too offer for services as another option!
For us, initial membership fees quickly were amortized in just less than 5 years! …After that, it was pure bonus to also have a great clubhouse including a nice lounge, bar, restaurant with great food, children’s playground, now even a pool and - OF COURSE - good friends from now over these many years!
…OHHH!!! Another added bonus was the Affiliated Yacht Club directory! When cruising, you can visit other clubs at very reasonable recipe rates (most offer even the first one or two nights at no charge!)
After first joining, we travelled to Hawaii and actually visited and were welcomed at a very nice YC on Oahu!!!
…The gist of this is you may have more resources at your local fingertips than you’ve realized (???).
Bolo
Contributing Partner
I think I'm spoiled. The marina where I keep my boat, Port Annapolis Marina on Back Creek, is for the most part a very nice place with a good staff and technicians. It's not the cheapest place on the bay by far but you get what you pay for, as the saying goes. At the present time the yard is working on re-fitting my mast and you can see how they took it down on my YouTube channel. I can also work on my boat in the slip or when it's on the hard. Many people do including cruisers who re-fit their boats before heading south for the winter. They also have a nice little marina store.
There are public Yelp reviews for this marina whose name must be kept secret?
There are Yelp and Google reviews for every business.
Again, I have no problem sharing by private message, I just don’t want to be identified publicly. Part of this is because I run a business!
Bob
Again, I have no problem sharing by private message, I just don’t want to be identified publicly. Part of this is because I run a business!
Bob
Bob, PM send me the name of the boatyard and I will make it public.
As posted in the thread, I run a consulting and training business so absolutely do not want to be connected to any posts about the marina I had problems with. I haven’t even put a review on Google or Yelp. It’s very small place so they would instantly connect to me if what i shared was to be posted with their name. The Ericson forum may not be big but every post we make IS permanent and IS part of the screening in even a basic search of Google. There are numerous companies which on a daily basis look for bad reviews then “sell” mitigation to places like this marina. That’s the problem if you post the name in this thread so I do not want that to happen.
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If it were me, I believe I would not name them, and let members email me for such details. This site is trolled by indexing bots ever day.
My .02 worth.
My .02 worth.
Absolutely agree. I didn’t realize my answer was more than just a pm and going to have the name go to this thread so the name has been deleted. Sorry Christian but no.
Fwiw- I’ve already been sued for copy right infringement due to one of the bots Loren mentioned. Kicker is that I took the photo while working for the Govt. It took months and a bunch of lost billable hours to make that go away.
It is not copyright infringement to review a product. The marina in question will remain unnamed at your request, but I have now read the public Yelp reviews and I;ve never encountered such tales of outrageous malfeasance as in those reviews, and I feel it is a disservice to maintain in an information forum some kind of radio silence out of fear of reprisal, and to let the rest of the sailing world blunder in unaware by not discussing public reviews available to everyone else.
But there you go, different strokes. Seems really incredible to me, frankly.
But there you go, different strokes. Seems really incredible to me, frankly.
Obviously this is not a copyright issue and I mentioned that experience to relate how many lost hours can go to a frivolous lawsuit or scam if somebody wants to create problems for you. I guess more explanation is needed.
Up front, I want to say that I have plenty of experience when doing accident investigations in working closely with attorneys and occasionally the FBI to take on all sorts of individuals and companies up to Boeing and Airbus. Most every accident I worked for 32 years at the NTSB ended up in some type of litigation requiring depositions. This morning I was on the phone discussing litigation related to an auto accident, so I'm not afraid of mixing it up if needed.
BUT and as a warning to others with websites, I took a photo of a wrecked airplane I was working on in Guyana and a year later used it on my website (www.HowItBroke.com). When in Guyana, the Govt collected all investigation photos (normal process), made them open to the press, and mine was picked up by Agence France Presse, who put their AFP copyright mark on before publishing it. Other media like BBC using the image pay a small fee to AFP and yes, that really is how this all works these days. It's the top photo in this article:
www.bbc.com
Months after I put the photo on my website I got demand letter from PicRights that I blew off. A month later they were back, stating that their attorneys, Higbee & Associates, had been engaged. I of course went to my attorney, we had to do a bunch ($$) of research, learned how the search bots worked, had back and forth letters with PicRight, etc. Long story short is that I fortunately had a good relation with the Govt agency we'd worked with in Guyana and they were willing to give me a letter asserting that THEY were the original producer and distributor of all photos related to the accident and authorized my use of the photo I'd originally taken. This is the PicRights shakedown and it is a real thing! https://blog.engagedlegal.com/blog/is-picrights-a-scam-is-higbee-and-associates-a-scam
I'm relating this so others don't fall into the same trap and can get the idea of the time, money, and stress I lost to that bullcrap. As a pro photographer, Bolo probably already has run across this from the other end.
Getting back to this thread, the marina owner grew then sold a chain of storage facilities and has talked about how good his attorneys are in conversation. I'm sure if he filed it would become a "he said - she said" argument that never goes to trial, but only again after I'm again caught up with attorney fees and spending more time. Christian is probably right from a technical standpoint, however this is like having the right of way when driving through an intersection and not looking for cars running a red light. The reality is that the bots DO see what is on the Ericson forum and you better have a damned good reason to piss on a rich man's foot. This is today's reality and it's not just "different strokes" or perspective.
Let's move on.
Up front, I want to say that I have plenty of experience when doing accident investigations in working closely with attorneys and occasionally the FBI to take on all sorts of individuals and companies up to Boeing and Airbus. Most every accident I worked for 32 years at the NTSB ended up in some type of litigation requiring depositions. This morning I was on the phone discussing litigation related to an auto accident, so I'm not afraid of mixing it up if needed.
BUT and as a warning to others with websites, I took a photo of a wrecked airplane I was working on in Guyana and a year later used it on my website (www.HowItBroke.com). When in Guyana, the Govt collected all investigation photos (normal process), made them open to the press, and mine was picked up by Agence France Presse, who put their AFP copyright mark on before publishing it. Other media like BBC using the image pay a small fee to AFP and yes, that really is how this all works these days. It's the top photo in this article:
Guyana plane crash: Six injured on Fly Jamaica flight
The Canada-bound Fly Jamaica flight began experiencing problems shortly after take-off.
www.bbc.com
Months after I put the photo on my website I got demand letter from PicRights that I blew off. A month later they were back, stating that their attorneys, Higbee & Associates, had been engaged. I of course went to my attorney, we had to do a bunch ($$) of research, learned how the search bots worked, had back and forth letters with PicRight, etc. Long story short is that I fortunately had a good relation with the Govt agency we'd worked with in Guyana and they were willing to give me a letter asserting that THEY were the original producer and distributor of all photos related to the accident and authorized my use of the photo I'd originally taken. This is the PicRights shakedown and it is a real thing! https://blog.engagedlegal.com/blog/is-picrights-a-scam-is-higbee-and-associates-a-scam
I'm relating this so others don't fall into the same trap and can get the idea of the time, money, and stress I lost to that bullcrap. As a pro photographer, Bolo probably already has run across this from the other end.
Getting back to this thread, the marina owner grew then sold a chain of storage facilities and has talked about how good his attorneys are in conversation. I'm sure if he filed it would become a "he said - she said" argument that never goes to trial, but only again after I'm again caught up with attorney fees and spending more time. Christian is probably right from a technical standpoint, however this is like having the right of way when driving through an intersection and not looking for cars running a red light. The reality is that the bots DO see what is on the Ericson forum and you better have a damned good reason to piss on a rich man's foot. This is today's reality and it's not just "different strokes" or perspective.
Let's move on.
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Our church's Facebook page had a short-lived encounter with one of those bots. Over a song has been in the public domain for two hundred years. Bots are evil. Copyright trolls more so.
On a happier note, our marina is weirdly relaxed about working on your boat. They don't have haul-out equipment though, so not really possible for bottom work to be done here. But so far, everything else that I've wanted to do has been no problem.
To be fair, we're on a fairly narrow part of the river, with a national wildlife refuge on one side of the river and a lot of industry on the other. At the moment, developers buying up land for condos and such isn't a problem. And yes, that may very well be because it's Alabama.
Bots are evil. Copyright trolls more so.On a happier note, our marina is weirdly relaxed about working on your boat. They don't have haul-out equipment though, so not really possible for bottom work to be done here. But so far, everything else that I've wanted to do has been no problem.
To be fair, we're on a fairly narrow part of the river, with a national wildlife refuge on one side of the river and a lot of industry on the other. At the moment, developers buying up land for condos and such isn't a problem. And yes, that may very well be because it's Alabama.