Does This Ericson 381 Need New Bottom Paint - My Surveyor Refuses to Answer

[surfinghollywood]

I had a Survey done last week and found a ton of issues, including oil and coolant in the bilge. However, my surveyor refuses to answer this question for "liability reasons" on whether we need new bottom paint. To me, it's pretty obvious. What do you think?

 

[Alan Gomes]

How in the world could answering whether the boat needs bottom paint be a liability issue for a surveyor? That makes zero sense to me.

Anyway, to answer your question: I'd say yeah, it looks like it needs paint to me.

 

[Frank Langer]

Yup, new paint. Talk with local sailors/boatyards to see what is recommended in your area (it can vary due to fresh/salt water composition, nature of local sealife like barnacles, algae, etc.).
Frank

 

[surfinghollywood]

How in the world could answering whether the boat needs bottom paint be a liability issue for a surveyor? That makes zero sense to me.

Anyway, to answer your question: I'd say yeah, it looks like it needs paint to me.

Some surveyors don't want to "pis_-Off" the selling broker, their lifeline to new surveys, so they say things like,"Well, it's your call. This is primer, this paint. It's better to get a professional boat yard to answer that question. I only do visual inspections and report what I see." uggh

 

[Bolo]

Yes, definitely new bottom paint AND a new marine surveyor too. Coolant and oil in the bilge is the bigger concern. Maybe find a good marine mechanic to look the engine over if you’re serious about buying this boat. And find a mechanic who doesn’t have “liability“ issues.

 

[Drewm3i]

As someone who does surveys/pre-purchase inspections for clients, I would 100% agree with Bob: you need bottom paint AND a new surveyor.

 

[Drewm3i]

Where is this boat located?

 

[Loren Beach]

Some surveyors don't want to "pis_-Off" the selling broker, their lifeline to new surveys, so they say things like,"Well, it's your call.

That gives me a chuckle.
When we were shopping for a boat (and bought it and still have it) down in SF in 1994, our local Portland marine insurance agent was helpful in providing a contact for a surveyor down in Alameda, that he had known since they were kids sailing dinghies,
It turned out that the guy was kind of a legend there and known for doing very thorough surveys.
Our broker kind of winced when i mentioned the name, and said only that some (other!) brokers called him a "deal killer". Since I trusted our contact in PDX, I knew that this was the right surveyor for a purchase!

Since the boat was neglected and in need of considerable maintenance, we were not looking for an excuse to stop the purchase. We just wanted to pay a reasonable amount that accounted for the labor and expense we would incur after trucking the boat back to Portland.

I followed the surveyor around for a day and did indeed get (the beginnings of) an education about the boat. Our engine surveyor was also great; I knew we needed this because I had zero experience with inboard diesels In each case they found hard-to-see-by-a-beginner broken parts. I easily saved the costs of the surveys. The seller grumbled but paid the yard to fix the problems.

Remember, if owning a "yacht" was simple, they'd let just anyone own one!

So, do your 'due diligence' and I hope this all works out. IMHO, an Ericson 38 is often a final boat for any family. Not too big, but big enough.

 

[surfinghollywood]

That gives me a chuckle.
When we were shopping for a boat (and bought it and still have it) down in SF in 1994, our local Portland marine insurance agent was helpful in providing a contact for a surveyor down in Alameda, that he had known since they were kids sailing dinghies,
It turned out that the guy was kind of a legend there and known for doing very thorough surveys.
Our broker kind of winced when i mentioned the name, and said only that some (other!) brokers called him a "deal killer". Since I trusted our contact in PDX, I knew that this was the right surveyor for a purchase!

Since the boat was neglected and in need of considerable maintenance, we were not looking for an excuse to stop the purchase. We just wanted to pay a reasonable amount that accounted for the labor and expense we would incur after trucking the boat back to Portland.

I followed the surveyor around for a day and did indeed get (the beginnings of) an education about the boat. Our engine surveyor was also great; I knew we needed this because I had zero experience with inboard diesels In each case they found hard-to-see-by-a-beginner broken parts. I easily saved the costs of the surveys. The seller grumbled but paid the yard to fix the problems.

Remember, if owning a "yacht" was simple, they'd let just anyone own one!

So, do your 'due diligence' and I hope this all works out. IMHO, an Ericson 38 is often a final boat for any family. Not too big, but big enough.

Excellent advice and insight. I'm working the numbers and trying not to get emotionally attached. It's quickly becoming a project boat, a restoration process boat. Almost every component is non-functioning. She's got good bones, but that's about it.

 

[surfinghollywood]

Where is this boat located?

San Diego area.

 

[Drewm3i]

Just looking at the listing: https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1986-ericson-381-9998096/

Honestly, this doesn't look like a deal to me at all. If someone cheats out on the floor like that, what else do they cheap out on? Looks like it needs a full restoration which is very hard to do to a sufficient standard in an expedient manner. You'd be better off buying a better boat to begin with IMO.

 

[peaman]

Bottom paint is a maintenance item, like servicing winches and replacing running rigging. If that's enough to sour a deal, then maybe best to walkaway.

 

[Christian Williams]

Yes, no, maybe. When will you next haul out--if three years from now, yes. Do you have a diver monthly? Maybe no.

Generally people paint the bottom when forced to haul for other reasons. I put if off until clearly necessary, since the monthly diver keeps the hull clean anyhow.

 

[Bolo]

I had a Survey done last week and found a ton of issues, including oil and coolant in the bilge. However, my surveyor refuses to answer this question for "liability reasons" on whether we need new bottom paint. To me, it's pretty obvious. What do you think?View attachment 54365

After looking at the listing and taking note of all that's been written about this boat, I'd have to approach your decision to buy this vessel as if I were considering the purchase myself. Each of us would have to take into consideration many factors and among them would be - How and where we'd be sailing, how old we are and what are our future plans for sailing, what is our skill level in addressing the needs of the boat, what kind of time do we have to devote to repairing/upgrading the boat to a level we'd feel comfortable when taking it out for a day sail or longer? How much money are you willing to invest into the boat for work to be done by marine mechanics that you can't do?

The asking price, and it is just an asking price, seems a bit low for a E38 but not for a boat in the condition that I see in the listing. Many things trouble me right off. The cabin soul the looks like a Home Depot special that appears to be plywood. Even the soul in the photo showing the head, shower and part of the v-birth which looks like a slate floor but I'm sure it's not. The fire extinguisher in the cockpit? Why not just put it in the adjacent lazaret? The instruments at the binnacle appear to be old and may need to be replaced. The (not so) white cushion covers. Are they vinyl? The glossy finish of the interior, IMHO, is not as appealing as the usual matte or semi-gloss finish. The opening hatches seem kind of beat too. The rigging and sails, how old?

In short, if you have the time, money (to do the work yourself or pay someone), and discipline to upgrade this boat then maybe it's a bargain but I would offer something like $18k for it and then go a little up from there in negotiations. However, unless you want to spend a lot of time, at the dock or on the hard, fixing things rather then sailing - I'd keep looking and chalk up the money you paid the surveyor as part of your marine education. I personally wouldn't touch this boat but then I'm 74 years old and would rather sail than do major repairs. I just had my marina do some major work on my boat which ran into five figures and it's just a E32-3. Choose wisely my friend. My 2 cents worth of advise.

 

[Kenneth K]

Does this 381 Need new bottom paint?​

• Yes, right away
• Yes, but you still have one more year before needing to paint
• No, it's fine.

Answer: Yes, right away, because, A) it generally is in need of new bottom paint, and B) it is already hauled out. If unhauled, and still floating, there would likely have been little additional danger in letting it go another year, though the extra bottom growth would likely have been significant, and the worn-through (gray) areas would likely be much more prevalent once that growth is removed with a pressure washer.

As to the surveyor, I'd remind him that YOU are paying him for his services, and not the broker. I'd threaten to withhold payment for "breach of contract" and raise a public-enough squabble over it that the broker is unlikely to recommend this surveyor to other owners.

 

[surfinghollywood]

After looking at the listing and taking note of all that's been written about this boat, I'd have to approach your decision to buy this vessel as if I were considering the purchase myself. Each of us would have to take into consideration many factors and among them would be - How and where we'd be sailing, how old we are and what are our future plans for sailing, what is our skill level in addressing the needs of the boat, what kind of time do we have to devote to repairing/upgrading the boat to a level we'd feel comfortable when taking it out for a day sail or longer? How much money are you willing to invest into the boat for work to be done by marine mechanics that you can't do?

The asking price, and it is just an asking price, seems a bit low for a E38 but not for a boat in the condition that I see in the listing. Many things trouble me right off. The cabin soul the looks like a Home Depot special that appears to be plywood. Even the soul in the photo showing the head, shower and part of the v-birth which looks like a slate floor but I'm sure it's not. The fire extinguisher in the cockpit? Why not just put it in the adjacent lazaret? The instruments at the binnacle appear to be old and may need to be replaced. The (not so) white cushion covers. Are they vinyl? The glossy finish of the interior, IMHO, is not as appealing as the usual matte or semi-gloss finish. The opening hatches seem kind of beat too. The rigging and sails, how old?

In short, if you have the time, money (to do the work yourself or pay someone), and discipline to upgrade this boat then maybe it's a bargain but I would offer something like $18k for it and then go a little up from there in negotiations. However, unless you want to spend a lot of time, at the dock or on the hard, fixing things rather then sailing - I'd keep looking and chalk up the money you paid the surveyor as part of your marine education. I personally wouldn't touch this boat but then I'm 74 years old and would rather sail than do major repairs. I just had my marina do some major work on my boat which ran into five figures and it's just a E32-3. Choose wisely my friend. My 2 cents worth of advise.

Amazing advice and I could not agree more. The more time I step away from the emotion of owning her at any cost, the more I come to realize she may not be the right boat for me after all. Thank you for taking the time to educate me and offer your perspective.

 

[Bolo]

Amazing advice and I could not agree more. The more time I step away from the emotion of owning her at any cost, the more I come to realize she may not be the right boat for me after all. Thank you for taking the time to educate me and offer your perspective.

You’re welcome. That’s what we’re ALL here for.

 

[surfinghollywood]

Yes, no, maybe. When will you next haul out--if three years from now, yes. Do you have a diver monthly? Maybe no.

Generally people paint the bottom when forced to haul for other reasons. I put if off until clearly necessary, since the monthly diver keeps the hull clean anyhow.

Thank you, Christian! You are a major influencer on me wanting this boat. I've followed your channel for years. Here is a video I created on my experience with this 381 offer and survey. Enjoy the video. Episode three is still being worked on because I have not made my decision as of yet. Maybe after viewing these two videos you can give me your biased/unbiased opinion. Cheers!

Episode 2 of the survey

 

[surfinghollywood]

Just looking at the listing: https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1986-ericson-381-9998096/

Honestly, this doesn't look like a deal to me at all. If someone cheats out on the floor like that, what else do they cheap out on? Looks like it needs a full restoration which is very hard to do to a sufficient standard in an expedient manner. You'd be better off buying a better boat to begin with IMO.

Yes, the red flags started the day I saw the soul. After watching Christian replace the soul in his 381, I knew this would be one my first 'projects' on the boat. However, now that I've done the complete survey, the red flags outnumber the green flags 2:1.

Episode 2 of the survey

 

[Christian Williams]

Many or most Ericson 381s came with the Universal 5432. I don't know anything about Perkins. All i know is that the owner of a 1980s sailboat will (must, needs to, ought to) become personally familiar with the engine, its eccentricities and common issues and needs. That goes equally for the wiring and panels. So if interest continues, include a full commitment to the Perkins model you have.