E-33RH under sail

[CSMcKillip]

I will say one thing, thank goodness for this forum. I could not understand where the diesel smell and all that water went, really just about 10-16 oz bottles of water. I did not have a flashlight but I did have a small piece of hose and heard the water sloshing around. I have a wet&dry vacume that I shoved the hose between the motor mount and the glass pan.

So I am guessing that if water gets into the rear compartment from aft, it's going to travel to this second bilge compartment and never make it to the forward one? This is the same area that the transmission sits in correct?

Can I get better access from behind the motor by getting down into the lazerette compartment? I just installed a bilge pump down there.

Yesterday I also changed the belt on the motor, that alternator mount is screwy. Art Hale suggested that I change it out.

What a mess, I know I have oil and diesel sitting in that pan.........

I have photos from yesterday and will post them shortly, thanks everybody.

 

[CSMcKillip]

Well, I guess I shall get back into the car and clean up the rear bilge compartment.

Mike, I assume that it's your 33 and Loren's Olsen 34 in the photo on this site. That is a great photo, do you all have a higher resolution copy?

More to come.........

 

[E33MikeOx]

Chris:

Any water collecting in the aft part of the boat trickles UNDER the engine bilge through secret, hidden passages - and winds up in the keel sump.

Yes, that's our E-33 and Loren's Olson 34 at the dock at Cathlamet, Washington. That's about a one day sail, typically on a brisk Northwesterly breeze, up the Columbia River from Astoria, Oregon. Great place to tie up and spend some quality down time. Probably got the original digital stashed away somewhere. Don't remember if I or Loren took the pic.

Mike Oxborrow

 

[CSMcKillip]

Got It

Loren sent the file to me. There are just a couple of things that always make my worry about a boat, at least it has a bilge sump. Our old Capri 25 just had a pan liner, the bilge water collected under it, you could not remove the water. So we had a good 5 gallons sloshing around at times untill I purchased a hydro hoist and tilted the bow up. Everything then ran aft.

Photo attached

 

[Loren Beach]

Olson 34 Main Sheet

Regarding David's question about my mainsheet...
Like our prior two boats (both had bridge deck or cockkpit-spanning travelers) we lowered the top set of blocks on the boom by about 3+ feet. A vinyl covered wire pennant connects the bail on the bottom of the boom extrusion to the block. The wire has a simple nicopressed eye in each end and is held by a strong D shackle at the top, and is shackled to the top of our triple block. There is an SS thimble in each eye, too.

This removes about 12' of sheet all the time, so there is less to bring in for jibes.
Only minor drawback is that the block could possibly swat someone on the head in a flying jibe. Like everywhere else on a sailboat, you do have to be alert...


I took some quick pics today while we were there doing some cleanup.

Loren

 

[Emerald]

Of course, neat idea that I've never seen. Thanks for the pics.

 

[Surfin Tiki]

A few more E33RH pics

Here are a couple photos of Surfin Tiki out cruising Santa Cruz and Catalina islands this summer.... Fair winds,

 

[CSMcKillip]

Center Table

Almost al of the interior photos I have seen have the table stored up to the mast. I also notice that I have some extra wood work that was installed at the factory on my port side.

I was looking at the mast and I do have the holes for the stainless attachment, can someone take some photos of this for me so I can get an idea of how this works.

My center table is mounted to the floor and folds down. It is always in the way, Thanks in advance..

 

[E33MikeOx]

Chris:

The trick table that folds up and around the mast is a constant source of awe and amazement to everyone who has not seen it previously. I have no idea if the trick E-33 table was installed on all E-33's. Remember, I assumed that they all left the factory with rod rigging. If your table is anchored to the cabin sole, I suspect that it may have been a factory alternate installation, or a post sale retrofit. In either case, you are probably missing the struts and links that are essential to make the trick folding table make the transition from deployed for use, to out of the way folded around the mast.

I shall endeavor to remember to take my digital camera with me next time I visit the boat and take a few picks. Maybe a video would be better?

Mike Oxborrow
E-33 JP Foolish hull #25

 

[Rocinante33]

Chris & Mike,

My boat has the folding table, too. It may have been optional but who knows at this point?

Chris, it has a metal sail track slide fitting on the forward underside which slides up the track on the mast when folded up. Then there are two folding legs which support the aft end at when it is in the down position. These legs run diagonally down from either end to a special, purpose formed block of wood.

It is a neat design & tidies up the saloon a lot. Its main drawback is that it rattles a lot when motoring or if in a rolly anchorage. We usually wedge a flip-flop or a sponge between the mast & the hook and line which holds in the stored position to minimize the rattles.

 

[CSMcKillip]

Thanks Guys, I was at the boat all day yesterday and the dam thing just kept getting in the way. The table mount I have looks like somthing from WWII, it has 16 screws that attach it to the floor. Out table is different than yours in the photos, Same design, same shapes, but our table has 3 cubbie holes on the top for storage. I am sure the table is from Ericson. On my Port side I do have an extra cabinet like the one on the starboard side for bottles, Wine Cabinet.

I did look at some other 33rh designs from the guy in NC that is selling his 33. Its a nice looking boat.

Check my Blog it has updated photos of the boat from yesterday.

 

[Surfin Tiki]

Chris,
Your boat is really looking very nice these days. I've been checking your blog off and on this last year and am hoping you'll have her out sailing soon.
The center line table setup that you have has one plus, and that is it is likely more stable and secure than the fold up option. Additionally, it is actually a bit of a pain putting the thing up and down while cruising.
Regarding the IOR lead weight added in front of the keel. Is this something I can visually check for with the floor in? Where was your lead placed under the floor, what did it look like, and how was it bonded to the hull?

Thanks,
Joel

 

[CSMcKillip]

Lead in floor

You can see if you have lead by opening up the forward compartment in the floor to the tranducers. I had 5 lead bricks maybe 1x3x7. They were all the way forward in this section of the TAFG. The lead just looked to be resting in place, I am guessing 20 to 25 lbs. per brick.

Thanks for the kind words, the boat has almost consumed a year of working on her. I have new cushions being made and everything is ready to go except for the 105 deg. Days we are having right now. I am ready to go and sail her.

 

[Seth]

33 sailing

I can weigh in a few things.

If you want to optimize performance on the RH 33 for racing you absolutely need running backs and a backstay adjuster. I'm not saying you can't sail safely or swiftly without them, but they will make a big difference.

Here's why:

1). Runners. The rig is fractional with in-line spreaders. Thus the only way to adjust headstay tension is with runners (which attach at the hounds). More modern frac boats have swept back spreaders, so that the upper shrouds create headstay tension, but with in-line spreaders you don't get this. Adjusting the backstay will primarily just impact mast bend and mainsail depth, but will not do much for the headstay aftet the first inch or so. As the breeze comes up, the HS will begin to sag, and will eventually become excessive for optimal pointing (sail shape). You will need to use running backs to counteract this and get the sag to the correct amount.

2). Backstay-On a frac boat, the primary and best way to flatten or power up the mainsail is by bending or unbending the mast. Yes, you can depower a bit by using traveller and sheet, but you will not get the right combo of depth and sheet tension without the BS adjuster.


In general, and compared to the 36, the 33 is a bit more tender and really needs to be depowered as the breeze comes up to keep at peak performance.
If you are heeling more than about 15-18 degress you are giving up performance and making more leeway than you want to.

On the other hand, this characteristic makes the boat potent in light air and downwind-the weakest point (relatively) is upwind in breeze, and by using the tools described above corerctly to reduce HS sag and flatten the main you can make the best of it.

If you need anything more specific just let me know, and enjoy!

S

 

[CSMcKillip]

Seth, I know it been a while since you have sailed on the 33rh, do you remember and IOR long distance races the 33 was in?

I doubt ours will ever see the ocean, but we do have wind here in Oklahoma, right now its 6:30 and its blowing a good seventeen, at what point would you reef tge main? If its anything close to 12 knots our boat will be reefed allot.

I will add the runners next season, just remember getting our mast stuck in the dam things going down wind and broaching the boat because the runners were holding the boom down. I was young at the time, but it was probley why I love to sail.

I also dont think we will race the boat, maybee twice in the year, one is a 24 hour race and fhe other is a fundraiser. I do want to keep the boat flat as possible, have you ever broached one, or got one on her side, will she pop back up?

 

[Seth]

33's

I sailed the factory prototype for 2 years and we did lots of offshore races-the boat was just fine.

If you do not plan to race much I would not bother with runners, but would go with a backstay adjuster. You certainly do not need the runners to sail safely, and there is a certain amount of hassle that goes with them. Also, the orignal set up of having them on a 4:1 tackle is not enough to do any good. If you did install them you will need to run them to the free windward winch in orderto get enough tension when it is windy.

As for reefing, that is not a straightforward question.... if you have a backstay adjuster you can go into more breeze without reefing since you can really get the main much flatter. It also depends on how deep the sail is to begin with..If it is a really deep sail and you don't have an adjuster you will need to reef sooner. The other, more important point is that this is a different question depending on whether you are racing or cruising..If racing, and you have a decent inventory, you should avoid reefing until you are overpowered with your smallest jib-meaning you should leave the main full and switch down to smaller jibs as your first method of reducing sail. All factional boats will give better performance this way.

The other major factor is how many bodies you have on the rail-this greatly affects righting moment-the more weight on the rail, the more breeze you can stand without shortening sail..

Now having said all that, if you are a cruiser mostly and only have 1 primary headsail, then you will obviously want to reef the main instead since you are not going to be changing headsails. But since the shape of the mainsail and rail weight still has a big effect, rather than give a windspeed, I would use heel angle as a reference-if you can't keep the boat under 15-18 degrees you should shorten sail-especially upwind.

It is true that if you accidentally round down and gybe with runners wound on, the boom will be prevented from swinging and can pin you down until you ease the runners.

A broach is a round UP, not a round DOWN, and the boat just heads up into the wind when it is overpowered past the point of effective rudder control, so the the runners will not make any difference.

Is the boat especially prone to broaching or other loss of control? No. Not any more than any performance oriented boat. But if you are reaching or running with a lot of sail up, and have a driver screw up in a puff or have the trimmer neglect to ease the mainsail and kite in a puff, you could broach-same as with any boat. The boat will definitely recover from a broach as soon as itis unloaded by easing the sails.

Hope this helps!

Have fun!
S

 

[CSMcKillip]

Seth,
We do have a backstay, with adjusting rigging under the deck that come out aft of the helm. The spars are from ronstan and there is all wire, no rod. I assume the spar was changed at some point? The boat has been owned by 3 different owners, and one of them I was told was an owner, or part owner, of Ericson. The boat came to Oklahoma as a dealer boat, and was used to take people out to sell the Ericson line. This may be true or not, just what I heard about the boat. I know its been raced, and all the hardware seems to be upgraded Harken equipment. We do have a furler. Three head sails and a main all in great shape, I have gone over the sails twice cleaning them. The furler sail is a 100% jib, a 130% and a 150% that is new by Kerr sails. All the other sails are Ullman. They are dacron, and if we do race will have EP make the main and Genoa. The rigging is there for a chute, but no spinnaker sail is in the inventory.

Thanks avain for all the support, any tuning guides?

 

[Rocinante33]

Chris,

See the factory tuning guides in the specs & docs section of this site. They came out of my nav table.

Yes, on a broach she will pop back up none the worse for wear (except for a couple of broken mainsail slides and a splash of water in the cockpit). Me & my crew had to change shorts, but the boat did fine. Yes I have done that downwind & upwind, both. Looking straight down (almost) into Davey Jones locker is not too fun either way.

 

[Seth]

33 stuff

Answers in blue

......We do have a backstay, with adjusting rigging under the deck that come out aft of the helm. The spars are from ronstan and there is all wire, no rod. I assume the spar was changed at some point? The boat has been owned by 3 different owners, and one of them I was told was an owner, or part owner, of Ericson. The boat came to Oklahoma as a dealer boat, and was used to take people out to sell the Ericson line. This may be true or not, just what I heard about the boat. I know its been raced, and all the hardware seems to be upgraded Harken equipment. We do have a furler. Three head sails and a main all in great shape, I have gone over the sails twice cleaning them.
Don't bother doing this often, and NEVER buy into the "conditioning" they like to offer for a premium..Washing sails is not great for them to begin with and that conditioning nonesense where they claim to resinate the cloth is a scam-that resin will flake off the first time the sail luffs...

The furler sail is a 100% jib, a 130% and a 150% that is new by Kerr sails. All the other sails are Ullman. They are dacron, and if we do race will have EP make the main and Genoa. The rigging is there for a chute, but no spinnaker sail is in the inventory.
So, when you are racing, when you get overpowered, the optimal thing is to flatten the main, and then change down to smaller jibs until you have the 100 up. From there you can reef if you get overpowered. For cruising in light-moderate air I would use the RF130 primarily, and do a combination of partial roll and a reef in the main. Use heel angle to determine when to shorten down. EP is a good sailmaker.

 

[CSMcKillip]

Mild soap and water to get the mud dobber nest crap off, nothing more, hung up to dry. Yes I know about the sail cleaning, just would buy new sails, no reason to throw money out the window. I loved my EP sails for our Caori 25. Suoer shape and Harry really takes his time giving his thoughts on sail shap and rig tuning.