E-35/2 Runner Tails?...

[exoduse35]

I was perusing the manual for my 35-2 and came across the following in the running rigging cut list :

RUNNING BACKTAIL quant. 2 size 3/8 length 25' ends screw/ 3/8pin

I give, what is it where do I screw it and what to I pin it to? By the way how accurate is the list? Are the line sizes still accurate with the advances in rope? why are there discrepancies in line lengths that lead to the same place? As always thanks in advance,Edd

 

[CSMcKillip]

Sounds like running backs, used in place if a backstay in fractional rigged boats, one on each side, running back on tack side off, other side on to blocks and tack, adjustment on the mast was lower and you could adjust the rig more.

But, the use of them weremore prone to racing, and a backstay was installed. Maybee Seth will chime in on this one.

 

[Loren Beach]

Supporting an Inner Stay, maybe

I was perusing the manual for my 35-2 and came across the following in the running rigging cut list :

RUNNING BACKTAIL quant. 2 size 3/8 length 25' ends screw/ 3/8pin

I give, what is it where do I screw it and what to I pin it to? By the way how accurate is the list? Are the line sizes still accurate with the advances in rope? why are there discrepancies in line lengths that lead to the same place? As always thanks in advance,Edd

Until Seth checks in... our boat has factory "check stays" that are alternatively called running back stays.
The Tail is a piece of line with an eye spliced in it, through which a D shackle (with a screw pin) joins it to the swedged eye on the end of the wire on port and starboard. Unlike the 35-2, though, our rig has only a single lower attachment on each side. The 35-2 (as I reall...) has double lowers.
Those double lowers keep the spar from pumping forward or aft, with the stock mast head sail plan.

On our boat, the check stays "check" the forward movement of the spar. We only set them up if sailing in waves -- where the bow would run into a wave and slow abruptly and the spar might try to keep on going.
When we shackle on the dacron line runner tails, they lead through strongly-mounted swivel blocks back near each stern mooring cleat and then forward to a secondary Lewmar 43ST winch.

These movable "stays" usually attach to a T-slot in the spar up above the second spreader. The factory runners on our boat were wire, and when we replaced the standing rigging they were changed out to high tech line. They still terminate in an eye, and spend most of their days tied off on each side with light line to a sliding eye on the forward T-track on each side, just a few inches to the rear of the chainplate connections.

Also, the comment about fractional rigs is right on -- they do need some way to control mast bend caused by the pull of the fore stay, and their back stay is often used more for inducing controlled mast bend to flatten their big main.

IIRC, the E-33RH has the shrouds angled a little aft so that they also support/tension the fore stay. (For an more obvious example of this geometry look at the chain plate location on a J-24).

Back to the E-35-2, my uneducated guess is that there were optional "running back stays" (I think of them as "check stays" since the boat already has a Back Stay) and these were installed to balance the pull from an optional inner fore stay that was used for a cutter rig option. This is fairly common on boats set up for blue water cruising as well as off shore racers.

There's three cents worth.

Cheers,
Loren

 

[exoduse35]

Loren,
It kinda makes sense, I will need to read it a few more times to fully digest it though (not poor explination, poor visualization on my part) If I understand you right it is more an auxilery standing rigging item than a running rigging item. And in any event one that I would only need were i to run a staysail. Anyway thanks for a full .03c is that cause it was a good question, inflation,or in case one of us is using Canadian coinage?

 

[CSMcKillip]

Back in the day 1979- I was 7, my dad was racing a boat at the lake that had running backs in place of a backstay, I was on the boat and a storm came up, we broached the boat after a gybe and the boom got caught in the runner, this pinned us down. Only after fast thinking and cutting the runner did we rite the boat.

This was my introduction to sailing, oh the memories.

 

[Seth]

The scoop

For the 35-2, the description you saw were the TAILS to the runners. These lengths of 3/8 rope were attached to a wire, which usually had a T ball at the end. The T Ball would be inserted into holes on each side of the mast located midway between the spreaders, and the purpose of the running backs was as Loren says- to limit the fore and aft movement of the mast in a seaway, and also to remove some of the bend induced as you crank down an adjustable backstay-there are conditions where you want the tight backstay to reduce HS sag, but want to keep the mast straight to keep the main powered up. The 35-2 rig doesn't bend much, but it does bend some.

CSMcKillip is actually referring to what are generally called "topmast running backstays"-as opposed to "normal running backstays".

Normal running backs do NOT in any way replace the permanent backstay-they augment it.

In the old days of gaff-rigged mainsails with booms extending past the transom, it was not possible to have a permanent backstay since the booms went way past the back of the boat. These old boats needed top mast runners.

Today, they have returned with many of the new "fat head" or square topped mainsails on the big racing boats. The tops of these new mains are too big to pass under a backstay, so the solution is to return to the old top mast runners. Or, some of the maxi cruisers have to deeply reef the mainsail to tack or gybe (get the top of the main low enough to pass under the backstay). What is normally done on these boats (my beloved Medicine Man now has this set up) is that there is a set of top mast runners AND a permanent backstay. When sailing on a tack for any period of time, the "permanent" backstay is set up with a shackle and adjusted with hydraulics to adjust mast bend. When you want to tack or gybe, you tension the top mast runners and release the backstay, and then very carefully execute the maneuver.

Clear as mud?

Me= :nerd: