E 35-3, Cracks By Keel Hull Joint After Haul Out

[Eddie 169]

Ericson 35-3. At haul out yesterday the boat yard began to lift the boat by the straps. When it rose high enough where the fore leading edge of the keel was visible, we saw the front strap was partly (about 3-5 inches, on the front part of the keel. It hung for a minute or two, then they lowered the boat back in and repositioned the straps. About 2-3 minutes of weight on the keel.
Cracks noted at keel joint on hard.
I am now concerned the keel hull joint was compromised. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Christian Williams]

Loren Beach[​

O34 - Portland, OR​

Senior Moderator
Blogs Author

Since you can stand the whole boat (well, supported so as not to fall over) on the keel, I cannot see how this would cause any harm.
(I would worry a lot more about the yard ignoring your instructions about where to place the aft strap, and trying to lift with a strap under the shaft.)

1988 Olson 34 #8
Betamarine 25 (new 2018)
Hull/Deck LPU repaint 2020-2021
(Complete Re-Fit)
Blog: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/authors/loren-beach.28/
Fresh Air
Portland, OR USA

Christian Williams​

E381 - Los Angeles​

Senior Moderator

For haul-out, you can always print the hull form from sailboatdata.com and show it to the Travellift guys. It shows them safe places to put the straps. Not usually necessary, but handy if they have a question.

Thelonious II, E381 hull 513 (1984) Universal 5432
Table of Contents for Thelonious Blog here.
YouTube Videos here.
Master Threads List here.

Eddie 169​

Member I​

Wish I had thought of that! Great advice for next time

 

[Christian Williams]

[Threads combined and duplicates removed.]

 

[Christian Williams]

This crack doesn't seem to look new (?). But it isn't what a hull/keel joint usually looks like. In any case, fill and fair before repainting.

 

[peaman]

Your image 3475.jpeg (stbd side) appears to show a sloppy prior cover-up or repair. I would dig into the crevices to determine what's there and how deep, before patching and fairing.

From "smiles" I have seen before, that one seems to be much farther from the hull than most (port side views). Is the keel stem unusually deep on that model, or is the apparent crack not the hull-keel seam? Maybe it's just a confusing perspective.

In any case, all imperfections look like conditions pre-existing before the haul out.

 

[Eddie 169]

This crack doesn't seem to look new (?). But it isn't what a hull/keel joint usually looks like. In any case, fill and fair before repainting.

View attachment 55275

Thanks for that comment. I really appreciate the thought on that so epoxy fill and fair should solve this. Hopefully no major work needed.

 

[peaman]

epoxy fill and fair

West System G/flex "toughened epoxy" is more flexible than some other epoxy products, so is more compatible with slight flexing at the keel-hull joint.

 

[Eddie 169]

Your image 3475.jpeg (stbd side) appears to show a sloppy prior cover-up or repair. I would dig into the crevices to determine what's there and how deep, before patching and fairing.

From "smiles" I have seen before, that one seems to be much farther from the hull than most (port side views). Is the keel stem unusually deep on that model, or is the apparent crack not the hull-keel seam? Maybe it's just a confusing perspective.

In any case, all imperfections look like conditions pre-existing before the haul out.

You are correct. The cracks are not at the keel joint but below 4-6 inches. It could have been caused by the lift since the strap was on the front part of the keel instead of further forward on the hull, and the cracks are below that.

 

[Eddie 169]

West System G/flex "toughened epoxy" is more flexible than some other epoxy products, so is more compatible with slight flexing at the keel-hull joint.

Flex would be desirable in this location.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

You are correct. The cracks are not at the keel joint but below 4-6 inches. It could have been caused by the lift since the strap was on the front part of the keel instead of further forward on the hull, and the cracks are below that.

This is the keel on our 35-3 when I stripped the bottom down, just to confirm what you're saying about the crack locations being well below the joint. Lead is a very malleable metal, almost impossible to work harden, which would be necessary for it to crack. My money is on cracks in fairing compound or filler, as others have pointed out. You can see remnants of ours in white and gray. The compound had been gradually cracking and flaking. The wire wheel revealed even more lost adhesion.

Also, as you can see, virtually the full weight of the boat is resting on the keel. I doubt the strap location had much to do with the cracks appearing. When was the last time you saw the bottom?

More on our process in post #33 here.

When you start digging into the material it will help all of us if you can continue this thread with pics of what you find. Good luck!
Btw, what year is yours?

 

[Prairie Schooner]

A sort of Before picture showing the layers of goop on there.

 

[Eddie 169]

View attachment 55278
This is the keel on our 35-3 when I stripped the bottom down, just to confirm what you're saying about the crack locations being well below the joint. Lead is a very malleable metal, almost impossible to work harden, which would be necessary for it to crack. My money is on cracks in fairing compound or filler, as others have pointed out. You can see remnants of ours in white and gray. The compound had been gradually cracking and flaking. The wire wheel revealed even more lost adhesion.

Also, as you can see, virtually the full weight of the boat is resting on the keel. I doubt the strap location had much to do with the cracks appearing. When was the last time you saw the bottom?

More on our process in post #33 here.

When you start digging into the material it will help all of us if you can continue this thread with pics of what you find. Good luck!
Btw, what year is yours?

I

Your image 3475.jpeg (stbd side) appears to show a sloppy prior cover-up or repair. I would dig into the crevices to determine what's there and how deep, before patching and fairing.

From "smiles" I have seen before, that one seems to be much farther from the hull than most (port side views). Is the keel stem unusually deep on that model, or is the apparent crack not the hull-keel seam? Maybe it's just a confusing perspective.

In any case, all imperfections look like conditions pre-existing before the haul out.

Yes it is below the keel hull joint, not at the seam.

 

[Eddie 169]

see the lines below the joint in your picture, appear to be cracks in the surface, similar to mine. Theyy appear in the same general location below the joint. The boat is a 1984.
The yard told me they were going to seal up the cracks and fair. However when I got back to the yard to check progress, they had already applied paint, and I was not able to inspect the repair or see what was underneath. That was unexpected!
Also I could still see the outline of the cracks through the paint, not faired to level. See photos

 

[Prairie Schooner]

see the lines below the joint in your picture, appear to be cracks in the surface, similar to mine. Theyy appear in the same general location below the joint. The boat is a 1984.
The yard told me they were going to seal up the cracks and fair. However when I got back to the yard to check progress, they had already applied paint, and I was not able to inspect the repair or see what was underneath. That was unexpected!
Also I could still see the outline of the cracks through the paint, not faired to level. See photos

In defense of the yard, if you keep picking at that fairing compound it will keep flaking off and you end up with a total bottom redux like we had. I really doubt there is any structural damage you need to worry about. And your end result is far better than the moonscape we inherited.



As long as your keel/hull joint is not leaking, you're probably good to go. How do your keel bolts look? We rough sanded and painted this mess for three years before we finally tore into it.

Still, it would have been nice to have done some forensic digging and recording. That would have given you information about what maintenance you may have in the future.

 

[Kenneth K]

I am now concerned the keel hull joint was compromised. Any thoughts appreciated.

I think you can rest assured that there's about a zero % chance the yard damaged your keel. You can't lift the boat by the keel in the manner you describe. The leading/trailing edges of the keel are too steep--the straps of the lift can't grab them, so they just slide up the keel's fore/aft edges until they meet something horizontal. The horizontal surface they meet is the part of the hull called the keel boss (or keel stub).

It's the strongest part of the boat--a combination of thickened fiberglass, the box-beam structures of the TAFG, and the thick fiberglass shell of the hull itself. It was designed to support the 5200lb keel, not only vertically, but also when the mast is tipping the keel to one side while a wall of water is pushing it to the other (all, likely, while the boat is also pitching up and down along the waves).

So, even if you could lift the boat by the keel alone, it would harm neither the keel nor the hull.

As for cracks, here's what my keel joint looked like at the last haul-out:

The yard picked out the "loose" sections of barrier coat/filler/previous patching materials, then re-filled the voids with Sikaflex and re-painted. At the previous haul-out, I did nothing more than paint over the cracks.

My theory on the cracks? The barrier-coating Ericson applied over the fiberglass (and, I believe the keel) seems extremely brittle. Slight movements cause it to crack.

This is what my prop strut looked like when I bought the boat in 2016.

The surveyor tried to shake the strut by hand, saw no movement, and declared it "good." I've never had problems with that area--I just re-coat it with bottom paint at each haul-out.

 

[Eddie 169]

Thanks for that. That’s really enlightening. These boats are built tough

 

[Eddie 169]

In defense of the yard, if you keep picking at that fairing compound it will keep flaking off and you end up with a total bottom redux like we had. I really doubt there is any structural damage you need to worry about. And your end result is far better than the moonscape we inherited.

View attachment 55285

As long as your keel/hull joint is not leaking, you're probably good to go. How do your keel bolts look? We rough sanded and painted this mess for three years before we finally tore into it.

Still, it would have been nice to have done some forensic digging and recording. That would have given you information about what maintenance you may have in the future.

Compared to yours mine look clean with some minor surface cracks. I think the yard did a good job. They did seal the cracks and paint it over. You can still see where the crack is cause they didn’t fair very well, but that would’ve been a couple more days or a week at the yard and a lot more expensive

 

[Drewm3i]

I don't think there is necessarily anything structurally wrong, but the deep cracks at the trailing end of the keel (picture 4) do merit grinding and further investigation.