E-35 II (& other E boats) Refridgeration

[Loren Beach]

Keel Cooler update

Well, here it is, January of 2007, and our boat is out for bottom painting. It's been over two years since I finished the Frigoboat install and a bit longer since the Keel Cooler heat exchanger was installed thru the hull.

I thought it appropriate to post a picture of the sintered bronze heat exchanger after this much use and exposure to water. Because we boat in fresh water we do not have to worry about critters growing on it, just slime that brushes right off.

It was pressure-washed along with the rest of the bottom and now has new bottom paint all around. The little zincs are in good condition and I gave it a quick wire brushing. You can still discern some of the original bronze coloring in the darkened surface.
The refrigeration unit works from the time we turn it on in April until we stop using the boat in late November. Zero problems to report so far.

Loren

 

[Brisdon]

Good going Loren! Mine has been in 6 years now. It runs 365 days a year, And so far, no problems. I love these things!

 

[Bud H.]

Last year we decided to spend the money and put in a Waeco Coolmatic series 8o from West Marine in our E-35-2 Queenie. IMHO it was the best money we ever spent and if I had it to do over again it would have been the first upgrade I made after buying the boat. Over here in Eastern Washington the summers get hot, real hot. I used to haul out three frozen one gallon water bottles plus a ten pound bag of ice to cool the icebox on a typical weekend Friday through Sunday. I would usually have to buy another bag of ice Saturday afternoon and depending on when we were leaving another one on Sunday.
Last spring my friend Chuck and I installed the Waeco unit in about an hour and it has really done the job for us.
I bought a Rubbermaid plastic basket that sits on tiny legs on the floor of the fridge, I drilled a few hole into the bottom of the basket for drainage. When we get to the boat late Friday afternoon I fill the basket with waters, pop and beer and dump a 7lb bag of ice on top of them. With the Waeco on high for a couple of hours and then turned down a bit for the rest of the weekend everything stays nice and chilled and there is usually ice left in the basket when we go home Sunday afternoon.
To anyone who hasn’t installed one of these conversion kits I say “get er done!’. You won’t regret it.

 

[Loren Beach]

Vacuum Panel Notes

Wally gave permission to share his adventures with the hi tech insulation panels he has been trying (without success) to obtain. I believe that this is relavent to this thread because retaining cold inside the box is the "other half" of the problem... once you find a way to remove heat in the first place.
(For any newer site members, Wally maintains an extensive and well-indexed and Nicely illustrated project web site of the restoration of his C+C.)
:nerd:
So here is his message about the panels:
_________________________________________
Hi Loren -

Feel free to post this. I was just looking at my web logs and saw the
Ericson thread on refrigeration that referenced the first phase of my
refrigeration project. I really expected to have the rest of the project
finished years ago, but I got busy with the repower, work, etc, etc, and so
forth. However, eight months ago I started to seriously work on the
refrigeration system. My 'stop gap' solution failed, forcing me to face the
final solution.

I've been rebuilding my box, and have some information that might be of
value to the folks on the Ericson list. Glacier Bay has been having serious
production problems for over six months. I ordered panels last August, and
am still waiting. I'm about to give up and use Rparts panels, but have been
waiting this long because the Glacier Bay panels have historically been the
best. Heck, I spent seven years planning this... They cost twice as much as
the Rparts panels, but the perceived value by folks I've spoken with led me
to truly believe that the actual value of Glacier Bay panels is better than
twice the cost of their competition.

However, insulation panels that don't exist are NOT have no value.
(Clearly, I'm annoyed.)

I've heard so many stories from Glacier Bay about why they cannot produce
Thermal Insulation Panels that I don't know what to believe. (Glacier Bay
moved, and bought new equipment for making vacuum panels, and had some
difficulty getting new city permits to use the equipment. Then, their
supplier for the Aerogel foam also moved and had production problems, and
haven't been able to supply core Aerogel that meets Glacier Bay's quality
standards. Yada Yada Yada.)

Actually, I don't know what to believe anymore, and my freezer/fridge area
has been a big open hole down to the hull for six months.

Glacier Bay has made a strategic move to Diesel/Electric propulsion systems,
and the CEO clearly is not focused on thermal insulation and refrigeration
systems. When I visited the factory last September, I got an impromptu tour
of the new facility and saw an entire facility focused on Diesel/Electric
propulsion, but didn't see anything about thermal insulation. That raised a
red flag for me, but to be honest I wanted them to produce my panels so
badly that I let it go and gave them the benefit of every possible doubt.

Six months later, I still have a big hole in my galley. I think I might
have to go with Rparts, but have heard a few horror stories about fragility
with their vacuum panels. I've also had email conversations with
disgruntled purchasers, but everyone who was pissed off about them also said
things that led me to believe that he/she might not have been willing to
treat the vacuum panels with the respect that the price demands.

If I go that route, I'll be encapsulating the panels with epoxy and veil/mat
as soon as possible after delivery. It's a tough decision, but I believe
that epoxy/veil/mat is a stable compound that won't outgas over time,
creating internal pressure on the vacuum panels. I'm still rethinking,
because I counted on Glacier Bay and am still thinking through the
reengineering issues.
________
Part Two:Yeah, there's more to the story. The
highest R value rigid foam is Polyisocynanurate, but it absorbs water.
Another alternative is EXTRUDED polystyrene (not expanded) which you can
find from Dow or Corning. But the R value is R5 or less. Expanded looks
like the stuff you get in a cheap cooler, and that's not good as it does
absorb water.

I'm going to surround the vacuum panels with polyiso, and encapulate the
polyiso in epoxy after letting them sit in a hot room with a dehumidifier.
(so that atmospheric moisture won't freeze and render them useless.)

Wal
- - - - - -
www.wbryant.com
Stella Blue
'81 C&C Landfall 38, Hull 90

 

[Glyn Judson]

The ultimate ice box insulation.

Loren and all, The refrigeration guy here is Alan of Alan's Refrigeration and years ago during the course of working on my tried and true Adler Barbour unit, he mentioned the insulation tiles he installed in the ice box of a sailboat he used to own. The tiles came from his brother who worked at North American/Rockwell in Palmdale where the space shuttles are built. Anyway, these were reject heat shield tiles used on the skin of the craft that had phenomenal insulating properties. According to Alan, his brother had told him that a 1/4" tile was equal to eight feet of foam. After fitting them to the ice box walls in his boat, he said his worries were over as far as ice lasting as long as needed. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[JohnK]

While pondering other useless things, I wonder what the feasibility of sealing off/reinforcing the whole ice box, glassing in the appropriate valve, and taking a suction with a vacuum pump - effectively turning the whole box into a VIP. At least you could reattach a pump from time to time since it would inevitably leak...

 

[Loren Beach]

Frigoboat compressor photos

While photographing some other parts of our boat today, I snapped a couple of the compressor and tubing (pre-charged) that had to be coiled up beside it to finish up the install. This is under the middle shelf of our galley unit, and the install involved working with one arm at a time... and also adding some access openings on the forward side that do not show very well in this photo. That way another person could put a hand or tool inside to assist. Note the two aluminum brackets that hold the compressor.

The sink's blue colored drain hose blocks some better views, and I removed it at the time to improve access. The "keel cooler" thru hull is behind that hose, also.

I start reminiscing about the Advil bottle just thinking about this particular job...


Loren

 

[Loren Beach]

Keel Cooler, inside view

Finally (!) -- a pic of the inside of the bilge, under the galley, showing the Keel cooler. It looks like a sort of solid thru hull with two copper tubes (going in and out).
LB

 

[Glyn Judson]

Speaking of refrigeration.

All, Do any of you know how I can contact Adler Barbour directly in order to order replacement parts? Or is it Waeco? If so, how to contact them directly. All Google searches have led to dead ends. Thanks, Glyn

 

[chaco]

Refrigeration Parts

Check out www.rparts.com for Adler Barbour Parts. The Dealers prices are ridiculous !

 

[chaco]

Dometic-Adler Barbour-Waeco Boogie

Here is the Dometic Site. Parts are available thru their Dealers
http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas/USA/Marine/Refrigerators/

Good Luck !

 

[Loren Beach]

adding insulation

This thread was started with an insulation question, and here is a nice set of pics from another site where the owner built a new box and then put in a Frigoboat system with keel-cooler.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244849

The photos are externally linked, so if you want to refer to them in the future, you may want to d/l them now.

Regards,
Loren