E27 Mast rake

[Drewrt]

Last Wednesday I was out in about 18 mph winds on my E27. I felt like the bow was being pushed down.
When I got back to the dock I noticed my mast rake was guessing 15 inches forward.
My questions are.
Would that give the feeling of the bow down?
why would the previous owner set the rake that way?
And what would be the right rake to start at?
It looks like my stays don't have enough play in them to change the rake that much

 

[gabriel]

Should be no rake to .75 of a degree back, definitely not leaning forward, at least on my similarity rigged E25.

Do you have enough thread on the forestry toggles let it out that much?

 

[Christian Williams]

Forward rake reduces or eliminates weather helm.

Gents, please put your model and engine in the Signature line, so members don't have to look it up. Makes for more specific responses. Simple: Username/Signature.

 

[Drewrt]

Definitely was not trying to turn into the wind.
But I had a very strong river current working in the same direction as
the wind

 

[gabriel]

Last Wednesday I was out in about 18 mph winds on my E27. I felt like the bow was being pushed down.
When I got back to the dock I noticed my mast rake was guessing 15 inches forward.
My questions are.
Would that give the feeling of the bow down?
why would the previous owner set the rake that way?
And what would be the right rake to start at?
It looks like my stays don't have enough play in them to change the rake that much

Drewrt,

Sorry I'm completely wrong, according the the Ericson manual, the mast rake on your boat should be 6" aft! My boat is zero.

 

[Drewrt]

Drewrt,

Sorry I'm completely wrong, according the the Ericson manual, the mast rake on your boat should be 6" aft! My boat is zero.

Thank you very much

 

[gabriel]

Nice boat BTW!

 

[Mark F]

Hi Drewrt,

Welcome to the forum. Can you take a photo from the side so we can see the forward rake?

 

[Drewrt]

Nice boat BTW!

I'll be going on Wednesday. Glad to

 

[G Kiba]

Drewrt, My E27 had a lot or weather helm for first 5 years I owned it. I thought it was normal. I had the mast lowered to do some work and when it when back up, it went up with more rake than before. On the sail back from the yard, it sailing like a totally different boat. It was balanced and no weather helm. I found the optimum rake for my boat by successively loosening the forestay and tightening the backstay tension. Use a Loos gage to set the tension value. If you apply too much rake back, the boat will round down on a puff. You want it to round up do de-power. There have been several things I discovered that improved the performance of my boat over years of just trying something new. Just upsetting that it took me so long for me to find them.

 

[Christian Williams]

Mast rake aft causes the boat to head up. Forward rake causes it to head off. Think of a windsurfer, which is steered that way.

 

[G Kiba]

True for a windsurfer. I sailed on them for years. From teak booms to short boards. Was quite good if I don't say so myself. An E27 is not a windsurfer most of the time. Rake back removed a ton of weather helm on my boat.

 

[gabriel]

True for a windsurfer. I sailed on them for years. From teak booms to short boards. Was quite good if I don't say so myself. An E27 is not a windsurfer most of the time. Rake back removed a ton of weather helm on my boat.

Are you sure you aren’t mistaking weather helm with lee helm?

 

[G Kiba]

At least my definition of weather helm is the need to move the tiller off center when sailing up wind. With some boats, you will really struggle and fight the tiller and be tired after a long hard up wind leg. Hence "going to weather". Raking the mast back, at least on my E27, corrected that behavior. However, too much rake can cause the boat to round down in a puff. The trick is to find the right about of rake that gives you a neutral helm yet still rounds up on a puff. After finding that right amount of rake, I could lock the tiller (no autotiller) and the boat would sail for miles in 12-15 knots of wind without making corrections. That's how good Ericson boats are designed. The previous owner of my boat never experienced that with way the rig was tuned. Too bad.

 

[Christian Williams]

Grant, please Google the subject, you currently misunderstand it.

 

[gabriel]

At least my definition of weather helm is the need to move the tiller off center when sailing up wind. With some boats, you will really struggle and fight the tiller and be tired after a long hard up wind leg. Hence "going to weather". Raking the mast back, at least on my E27, corrected that behavior. However, too much rake can cause the boat to round down in a puff. The trick is to find the right about of rake that gives you a neutral helm yet still rounds up on a puff. After finding that right amount of rake, I could lock the tiller (no autotiller) and the boat would sail for miles in 12-15 knots of wind without making corrections. That's how good Ericson boats are designed. The previous owner of my boat never experienced that with way the rig was tuned. Too bad.

Grant, the forces that act on the top side of a sailboat act something like pushing a boat away from the dock: if you push sideways on it from the middle, it moves straight sideways (balanced), if you push sideways on the stern the stern tends to go out while the bow stays (weather helm). If you go up front and push out the bow goes and stern stays, that’s lee helm. Moving mast back in essence changes where you’re pushing to further back.

Saying the opposite happens is kinda like saying your car is steering left when the wheels are turned right.

 

[G Kiba]

Grant, the forces that act on the top side of a sailboat act something like pushing a boat away from the dock: if you push sideways on it from the middle, it moves straight sideways (balanced), if you push sideways on the stern the stern tends to go out while the bow stays (weather helm). If you go up front and push out the bow goes and stern stays, that’s lee helm. Moving mast back in essence changes where you’re pushing to further back.

Saying the opposite happens is kinda like saying your car is steering left when the wheels are turned right.

Gabriel, I have never heard such an over simplified explination of physics of sailing. Are you a naval architect? Or maybe a physicist sailor?

I am only sharing my direct experiences. Oh course you guys are the experts. I think experts of almost of everything! How many E27s have you owned and sailed?

 

[Brad Johnson]

you really want some weather helm when you are going upwind in 10 to 12 knots apparent, If you have a tiller 5 to 10 degrees off center to windward , wheel 4 to 6" off center to windward. I have found on my E 26 -2 I set my mast as forward as the backstay allowed as a standard setting and use a backstay adjuster to bend the mast to flatten the main as the wind pipes up. If and when I ever need to change the rudder I would make it 6" deeper and 2" longer in cord length and rake the mast a little further back for a little better pointing