E27 steerage

[Quiet Magic]

As I was out sailing my E27 one day I needed to go down below to to grab some food(I was broad reaching at the time) so I tied some lines to the tiller and went below. Upon returning to the cockpit I found the boat alomost ready to gybe. MY thinking is its either my rudder or my sails(my sails are way beyond retierment) or can boats just not self steer well? However when I sail to windward the boat will self steer fine.
Can anyone help me?!

Steve Christensen
​

 

[chrism]

Next time you're out on Quiet Magic on a broad reach, note how often you have to adjust the tiller. You'll see that the boat changes her heading not just based on the position of the rudder, but also the way the wind is hitting the boat and how the current is moving the boat. The outside forces are working when you're steering, you just don't notice as much because even though it seems like the tiller is always straight, you're probably sun-conciously making adjustments all the time.

Different points of sail, the boat is moving differently through the water at different angles of heel, the wind is hitting the boat differently, the tide may move you more or less, or not at all.

I wish I could find a site that could explain it better than I can.

 

[rgoff]

I think it's also possible just the shift in your body weight (from cockpit to cabin) would account for some of it. How much ??????

 

[Seth]

steering

Except in cases of current shear-which is basically moving from one body of moving water to another, current will not affect your steering. The boat simply moves in the direction of the current at the speed of the current.

As for the rest of it, yes, you CAN change direction by moving around the boat. If you are balanced annd sailing along, then moving forward should make you head up, moving aft will make you bear away. Moving to leeward will also head you up, to windward, bear off. The more weight that is moved the greater the effect.

As for the self steering on a broad reach, if when you tie things off, the boat wants to bear off (as you describe), then tighten the main and ease the jib slighty. The best thing is to experiment securing the tiller once you have boat close to neutral. Once that is done, adjust the main and jib until the boat goes straight for a while by using those methods (main in/jib out to head up;main out/jib in to bear off), you will find an equilibrium somewhere.

HOWEVER, as soon as there is a change in wind speed or direction, the balance is changed and you must readjust! Maybe this is what happened.

Think about it like this: You get it all sorted out, go below, and the wind increases. If no trim changes are made, the boat will head up. If the wind decreases, it will bear off (under the same trim).

This been explained in great detail in previous posts, but if you have questions feel free to post 'em-I'll answer as best I can.

BTW-I also love the name of your boat!

Seth

 

[Joe Benedict]

Good explanation Seth. A couple years ago before I bought this boat I wanted to rent for a while before I decided to buy. One place that offered rentals was a US Sailing school also (Chicago Sailing Club.) The last lesson before they "set you free" involved steering without a rudder which meant using only sail trim. Like MOB drills I would recommend trying it on a regular basis. Coincidently, Saturday was the first time I was able to get my boat balanced enough to set the wheel brake and go sit in the shade for a half an hour at a time. I stumbled on the correct combination by slowing to about 5.5 knots, letting the main out a little more than usual, and surprisingly a slight leeward helm. It worked well on either a port or starboard close reach - stayed within 5 degrees. If I increased speed to get closer to hull speed or slowed to below 5 knots I just couldn't find the correct combination.

 

[Quiet Magic]

new question

I appreciate all of the responses, I now have a lot of sail trim theories to test. But now I have a new question about the e27 preformance. Why does it seem like no matter what the the wind speed my boat always preforms better to windward, I'm pretty sure that the point of sail you get the best preformance is a beam reach, why is this so, am I just not triming the sails right(probobly).

Steve Christensen​

 

[Morgan Stinemetz]

My experience with my E-27 has been that the boat is weight sensitive. Off the wind, weight moved forward will amount to a significant gain in speed. Get the lard out of the cockpit. On reaches, one usually moves the jib lead forward a bit, too. If you are letting the top of the jib twist off, you are losing horsepower. That goes double on a broad reach. Using a vang on the main? It is the cheapest/best thing in your arsenal--the biggest bang for the buck.

 

[NateHanson]

I appreciate all of the responses, I now have a lot of sail trim theories to test. But now I have a new question about the e27 preformance. Why does it seem like no matter what the the wind speed my boat always preforms better to windward, I'm pretty sure that the point of sail you get the best preformance is a beam reach, why is this so, am I just not triming the sails right(probobly).

Steve Christensen​

Everything said above about downwind performance is good advice, but let me just throw out a simpler explanation (maybe it's applicable here, maybe not)

What are you using to judge performance? Does it just "feel" faster when you're beating to windward, or does your GPS or log record higher speeds to windward, compared to a reach?

A reach should be faster, but close-hauled often feels much faster because the apparent wind speed is faster. In 10 knots of wind, going 6 knots at 45 degrees to the true wind, you feel about 13 knots of wind in your face. In the same 10 knots of true wind, going 6 knots at 100 degrees to the wind, you only feel about 10 knots of wind in your face. So even though the boat is going the same speed, you feel like you're sailing much faster on a beat.

Nate

 

[Quiet Magic]

you have a point

I have often thought the reason windward feels faster because of apparent wind and angle of heel, but, if im remebering right, my GPS records speeds greater to windward.

 

[Seth]

Speeds

Certainly going to windward always "feels" fastest-because you are experiencing the highest apparent wind you can for a given true wind speed. In fact, if beating were not so inefficient from the perspective of aligning the lift/thrust with the boats' direction-it WOULD be the fastest. The "feel" of going faster mainly comes from the higher wind you feel on your face-and the heel, which puts you closer to the sound of rushing water.

The beam reach is fastest because the apparent wind stays at least as high as the true wind, and the lift/thrust produced by the sails is much better aligned with the boats' direction. Once you start broad reaching, the app wind decreases-more as you continue to bear away.

In light air, you slow down dramatically once you get deeper than a beam reach. In heavy air, the broad reach is usually the fastest of all-the lift is very much in line with your direction and the boat is more level (heel kills speed), and the helm pressure is less-meaning more speed-BUT you must have enough breeze for this to be the case.

The only way to judge is with a knotmeter, clock, or gps/loran-put differently, this should never be a subjective thing-it will show up by any measurement method.

Enjoy!