E34 Shaft Log Leak

[JSM]

My Wife and I recently purchased an 87 E34. On the delivery from Waukegan to Chicago the boat developed a cyclical but steady thrumming vibration from below it almost sounded like a control cable rattling against the hull. The next day while cleaning the bilge I noticed a small amount of water running into the back of the bilge which I traced back to a leak in the bottom of the shaft log where it meets the hull just aft of the stuffing box hose. I was able to staunch the leak using quick setting plumbers epoxy and am now contemplating having the boat hauled and professionally repaired as I am not comfortable riding out the season with the epoxy patch.
We would appreciate hearing from anyone with a similar experience as to what the repair entails as well as recommendations on a yard here in Chicago. Skyway or Crowleys ?

Thanks
JSM

 

[Loren Beach]

Some Chicago owners should be checking in with yard suggestions.
There are a lot of Ericson's and Olson's in your area with the same engine & drive train.

As to the leak, that's a rare one in my experience. I wonder if the shaft has rubbed on the frp tube over the years due to collapsed motor mounts?
I recall that when we had a careful out-of-water alignment done a few years ago, centering the shaft revealed that we needed new mounts (which we kind of knew) and also that the motor was sitting about an inch too low. This left our shaft almost-but-not-quite rubbing on the bottom of the frp tube.

We had it aligned, properly centered in the cutlass bearing, and then all the way forward. The misalignment was quite apparent.

Best of luck in effecting a fix.

Loren

ps: the late model E-34 is a great boat! Really fast, too.

 

[Grizz]

A Chicagoland View, perhaps worth approximately 2¢...

Sorry to hear of your perplexing leakage. The word 'unsettling' doesn't come close to describing what you must be feeling.

A bit of background: I've stored at Crowley's. I have friends that work at Crowley's. I've raced with and against some of them. I have much more experience with Crowley's than Skyway, so I'll comment only on Crowley's: they are a full service yard, can haul your boat (it's only a 2-bridge-lift trip once you round the breakwall) and have qualified fiberglass and mechanics on staff. They do abide by the alternate definition of BOAT (Break Out Another Thousand), so request an estimate for the anticipated work AND a definition of the fixed costs (haul out and splash).

They are quite busy stepping and commissioning boats this time of year (boats ready to return to harbors may be rafted 2-3 and sometimes 4 deep along the binwall), so a call ahead and conversation is warranted. Emergencies always take priority, hope it doesn't come to that.

Good luck, hope this helped a bit, even if it's only worth 2¢! Take care

 

[Glyn Judson]

Leaking shaft log.

Dear JSM, I have historical data to support two E31's from the entire fleet of them, that two boats had a similar if not more severe problem such as you describe. In regard to hull #24, the skipper was 100 miles off shore in the Gulf of Mexico with his family when the leak started. It got progressively worse and with his his advanced boat building knowledge, constant checking of the emergency patching he did with rags and wax toilet bowl rings, he was he able to limp home with the yard standing by to yank her out of the water as soon as he tied up. Similarly, E31, hull #19 had a leaking occurrence with his shaft log. He too radioed ahead and was was pulled from the water immediately in order to effect a permanent repair. In both cases new shaft logs were fitted and sealed into place. You might want to consider having yours replaced too. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[JSM]

Thanks all,my epoxy patch seems to be holding so far. Spoke with both yards and Skyway will be hauling me on Monday. Also had a conversation with the PO and he claims to know nothing about the leak but told me about an alignment issue he had two years ago that leads me to believe it may be the cause of the current problem.
While I'm out I plan on replacing the motor mounts (any recommendations?) and possibly the stuffing box hose and realigning the engine and shaft.
Grizz, thanks for your insight. I stored and worked at Crowley's back in the Bridgeport days. They have a some talented folks working there but are extremely expensive and backlogged at the moment. I also stored at Skyway in the past and have a good relationship with them, sounds like they will do their best to get us back up and sailing soon.
Thanks again , will keep you posted!

 

[JSM]

Got the boat hauled out, removed the shaft and stuffing box and found that the shaft has been riding solidly in the bottom of the tube finally wearing a hole in the shaft tube.The hole is large enough to pass my finger thru. Has anyone here had any experience with repairing something like this. Is it possible to remove and replace the shaft tube?
Right now I'm thinking of trying to glass this from the inside so that I can maintain the OD of the shaft tube.
I will also be replacing the motor mounts, shaft and coupling.

 

[toddster]

Someone posted the story of such a job a few years ago, over on the Moyer Marine forums. What size is your drive shaft? Those with 3/4" shafts may use these opportunities to upgrade to 1".

 

[EGregerson]

shaft

How does the cutlass bearing look?

 

[JSM]

The cutlass bearing is the only part of the drive line that dosent need replacing. The PO claims that the yard put it in last year.

 

[toddster]

Dunno... I'd give it a hard look. It's only rubber. And not that difficult or expensive to replace when working on the rest of the system. If everything else was out of alignment, the cutless would wear like crazy.

BTW: It bugged me enough that I finally looked it up: Surely "cutless" isn't a word? But that is actually the name of the shaft bearing. Contracted from cut-less.

 

[Christian Williams]

Cutless® is a registered trademark of Duramax® Marine LLC

As a word, it's just in the "brand" category.

 

[toddster]

Yes, but cutlasses have nothing to do with it. :nerd:

 

[JSM]

Managed to repair the shaft tube using epoxy and woven glass from the inside. A real pia working with my left hand and a mirror. Have replaced the motor mounts and am waiting for the new shaft , coupling and stuffing box to come from the machine shop.
Special thanks to Mitchman406 on the Catalina 36 forum who was kind enough to walk me thru the process over the phone.
Should anyone else have this problem check here.

https://www.catalina36.org/forum/technical-discussion/shaft-tube-removal

Thanks again
John and Susanne

 

[Loren Beach]

Managed to repair the shaft tube using epoxy and woven glass from the inside. A real pia working with my left hand and a mirror. Have replaced the motor mounts and am waiting for the new shaft , coupling and stuffing box to come from the machine shop.
Special thanks to Mitchman406 on the Catalina 36 forum who was kind enough to walk me thru the process over the phone.
Should anyone else have this problem check here

https://www.catalina36.org/forum/technical-discussion/cracked-and-leaking-shaft-log-tube

Thanks again
John and Susanne

I could not manage to find the exact link you referenced, but did find some interesting discussion.
https://www.catalina36.org/forum/technical-discussion/shaft-tube-removal

I was astounded at the number of owners with shaft log problems on that model. I have to wonder if it might be due to the C-36 mk1 being one of the most 'flexible' models that they produced -- a reputation for noticeable hull twisting in a sea way.

Anyhow, your boat might have got that way from worn-out (collapsed rubber donut) motor mounts, I would guess. When our original mounts were replaced one of the four was down to metal-on-metal. Our boat's shaft was almost resting on the bottom of the shaft log at the time. After all these decades a lot of 80's boat likely have this problem, IMHO.

Regards,
Loren

 

[Christian Williams]

>>>A real pia working with my left hand and a mirror.

Allow me to report on an important personal discovery that bends time and space.

A cell phone camera on "selfie" provides not only a remarkable mirror-like view of the undersides of things, with flashlight if needed, but also--hit "video"--records the view for further study.

A "better mirror."

 

[JSM]

Christian , regarding the mirror. Before starting work on the tube I purchased a "Giraffe Cam" from Amazon.com. Basically an endoscope on a bendable cable that hooks up to an Android phone. The perfect tool for this job. However five minutes into the job the phone and the cam decided to stop communicating with each other (Dammit, there goes my DIY colonoscopy!) .
Using the cam on my phone proved to be cumbersome . Because of the angles and space involved I could only point the phone straight into the tube witch did not allow me to see the screen on the phone. With the mirror I was able to prop it in place and see my progress in real time as well as being able to view the repair from different angles.
Adapt, improvise, overcome !

Loren , that is indeed the correct link. I will try and go back and edit it for future reference.

 

[Christian Williams]

Impressive fix. Shows what we can do with our own hands, research and determination.