E35-3 Aft-led lines and Traveler Setup

[MarineCityBrian]

I searched the forum but came up empty on this. Has anyone got a great system for running lines aft on the E35-3 without tearing out the traveller footings? On my boat, the fairly wide traveler footings leave little room for running the lines aft between the footing and the cabin entry, especially on the starboard side where the cabin entry is slightly offset. The main sheet is already led aft on the starboard side, and I'd say there's maybe room for a couple more lines at best, but then there's also little room for relocating the winch, or leading the main sheet elsewhere while making a straight shot for halyards or other lines to be accessible.
Since I'm sure some of your smart folks have performed this exercise before, and I'm aware that for a charge the factory would lead the lines aft for you, that there's a fairly sure-fire way of doing this. Any photos, drawings or diagrams you may have would be exceedingly helpful, and I'll try to get a good photo of my traveler and the room left (or lack thereof) around the footings. It's a curved-track Ronstan setup from 1983. I'd just like to have a steadfast idea of what my plan of attack is before purchasing lots of expensive hardware, and I figure it might also help my fellow E35-3 brethren in the same conundrum.

Kindest regards, and happy sailing!

-Brian

 

[Christian Williams]

Is this your factory setup?

 

[Darrel]

My boat came with the lines lead aft from the factory. I will go through my photos and paperwork on the boat and see if I can help you out. On the Starboard side is the Main Halyard, Main Sheet, and 50% reefing line. On the Port side there is the Jib Halyard, 75% Reef, cunningham, and another line that i would presume is a top lift for a wisker pole. And the traveler lead on their respective sides.

I will try and post some pictures of the set up for you

 

[mkollerjr]

Here's some photos on a later 38. The traveler sits on top of brackets which allow the lines to go through. Not sure how it compares to a 35-3.

 

[supersailor]

The 34-2 and 35-3 are essentially the same boat with different interior arrangements and the 35-3 has a bit added bustle at the stern. They use the same rig and rate the same. My traveler arrangement is the same as the 38 but my cabin top winches ate arranged differently. I also have all my lines lead aft. Christian and I differ on the advantages and disadvantages of these arrangements. That's what makes sailing so great.

 

[Christian Williams]

I don't really disagree, but I often suggest thinking through whether its worth a changeover if you currently have winches on mast and boom. (I like reefing at the mast).

Here's my setup, probably stock except for the unused double line clutch:

Port side, from left: Genoa halyard, boom vang and #2 reef in the triple clutch (the reef line is missing in this picture). The former owner used the empty double clutch for reef downhauls. I may do that.

Starboard side, from left: main sheet, but not through the (hidden) double clutch. If not on the winch, the main sheet goes in the clam cleat visible on the hatch cover. Also in the (hidden) clutch is Reef #1. The main halyard in on the outside winch.

It's the standard setup. My outhaul and topping lift are cleated on the boom, not led back.

[Oh yeah, I don't think I have bragged up those new stainless handholds (off the rack at WM). Turning that corner in a seaway is awkward without a dodger to grab, and the handholds are, well, handy.]

 

[Shelman]

Ive been working towards getting up the energy to move my main halliard winch from the cabin top to the mast. With my dodger its a cramped affair to grind while under the thing. Also the friction adds up by the time you get to the cockpit.

 

[MarineCityBrian]

Is this your factory setup?

The TRAVELER is precisely my factory setup, as is the main sheet. The remainder is not, but gives me a great idea of how to aft run items on the port side. Looks like a halyard (or some line) was run aft on the starboard side on the OUTSIDE of the traveller footing, which is also a neat idea. Thanks SO MUCH for the pictures!

Kindest Regards,
Brian.

 

[MarineCityBrian]

My boat came with the lines lead aft from the factory. I will go through my photos and paperwork on the boat and see if I can help you out. On the Starboard side is the Main Halyard, Main Sheet, and 50% reefing line. On the Port side there is the Jib Halyard, 75% Reef, cunningham, and another line that i would presume is a top lift for a wisker pole. And the traveler lead on their respective sides.

I will try and post some pictures of the set up for you

This would be WONDERFUL! I'd love to see the factory setup. Does your traveller appear to be the same as on Thelonious?

 

[MarineCityBrian]

Ive been working towards getting up the energy to move my main halliard winch from the cabin top to the mast. With my dodger its a cramped affair to grind while under the thing. Also the friction adds up by the time you get to the cockpit.

I've presently got the main halyard on the mast with a winch at the mast, and would really prefer them led aft. I cut my teeth on a Catalina 27 with aft led halyards and miss them dearly. While I appreciate the lack of friction I get having only 1 sheave to pass over, I much appreciate having most tunable lines in more of a "control panel" configuration. I also plan on running all with ball bearing sheaves, which should help on the friction front.

I don't run a dodger, either (though this is not to say that someday I might), so at present this area is not very cramped.

Thanks so much for the feedback - this forum is so wonderful and hopefully this info will be useful to others!

Kindest regards,
Brian.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

On my 87 E34, I have the main halyard on the outboard winch on the starboard side of the cabin top, the same as Christian but I too find that it is very hard to use that winch to raise the main. The dodger gets in the way and I cannot spin the winch handle more than maybe 150 degrees. Plus that winch is not very big and there is a lot of friction.

What I do is route the main halyard to the large winch normally used for the jib sheet, I can get a full 360 degrees and it has much more mechanical advantage. That primary winch is nicely in line with the cabin winch so that the halyard is at the same angle. Before I wrap the main halyard around that winch, I temporarily cleat the jib sheet around the cleat just behind the jib sheet winch. Once I get the main fully raised, I use a clutch to hold the main halyard then the re tie the main halyard around the outboard winch, that frees up the jib sheet winch for the jib sheet.

Much easier.

 

[MarineCityBrian]

I don't really disagree, but I often suggest thinking through whether its worth a changeover if you currently have winches on mast and boom. (I like reefing at the mast).

Here's my setup, probably stock except for the unused double line clutch:

Port side, from left: Genoa halyard, boom vang and #2 reef in the triple clutch (the reef line is missing in this picture). The former owner used the empty double clutch for reef downhauls. I may do that.

Starboard side, from left: main sheet, but not through the (hidden) double clutch. If not on the winch, the main sheet goes in the clam cleat visible on the hatch cover. Also in the (hidden) clutch is Reef #1. The main halyard in on the outside winch.

It's the standard setup. My outhaul and topping lift are cleated on the boom, not led back.

[Oh yeah, I don't think I have bragged up those new stainless handholds (off the rack at WM). Turning that corner in a seaway is awkward without a dodger to grab, and the handholds are, well, handy.]

I presently have only the main sheet led aft (kind of requisite for a cabin-top traveler 5:1 main sheet...). My main halyard runs over a mast mounted winch on the starboard side of the mast, and is cleated below this with a conventional cleat. At the least I'd add rope clutches on the mast before the winch for the halyards of I don't lead them aft.
All of my reefing as well as outhaul and topping lift are on the boom. Reefing goes out two blocks leading out the bottom of the boom to a cleat on the starboard side of the boom, and the outhaul and topping lift come out of slots on the port side (I believe - it may be one port and one starboard, but I thought both were on port...) run to a cleat each. There is no winch on the boom. My boat didn't even come with a vang, though I use the main sheet from my friend's scrapped O'Day 28 which works nicely. All of the attachments were there ready for a vang, just never used.
And I do have to confess, I admire your handy handles...

 

[MarineCityBrian]

I managed to find a good photo of my traveller (which, incidentally, I'm rebuilding and will hopefully be the topic of a future post).
I will say the cabin top is very clean as a result, but I just love the convenience of aft led lines.



I can upload a larger size if this is too grainy; I was abiding by the profile picture max of 500 pixels in any one direction (but I've seen others at 800 x 600, etc).

Thanks again for all of the help! Very curious to see the "from the factory" aft led line setup.

-Brian.

 

[Christian Williams]

The flow is certainly toward all lines led back, and I go with the flow (is that laughter from my family?).

However, dodgers are horrible monstrosities which just screw up a working sailboat while providing minimal shelter at a cost, for a good one, of six grand.

Also, lines led back are the result of mass obedience to equipment manufacturers and the questionable assumption that you'll be playing the outhaul and cunningham like Uffa Fox on an International 14 dinghy.

Some say these are just opinions. The full hysteria of the argument is here:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?131-The-90-Percent-Jib

Ah, I can feel the flow returning now.

 

[Darrel]

This would be WONDERFUL! I'd love to see the factory setup. Does your traveller appear to be the same as on Thelonious?

Yes from the picture the traveller appears to be the same. I also have all the factory line size and lengths from the factory set-up on my paperwork fom the boat. I will post the listing of line sizes and lengths to keep you from having to guesstimate

I will be going out to the boat after Christmas and will grab a few pictures then. I recently debated on moving some lines back to the mast but as I usually sail single handed I decided that lines in the cockpit would be the best option for me as opposed to the mast mount.

 

[MarineCityBrian]

I have very similar sentiments, sir! "The more people I have on the boat, the more I feel like I'm single-handing!" EXACTLY the way I feel, and exactly the reason I'm planning on moving the lines aft. Though at some future point I'd like to take the old girl racing, I think at least starting the process with a steadfast foundation is prudent.
Loved the read.

-Brian.

 

[MarineCityBrian]

Darrel,
This would be a wonderful post-Christmas gift. Thanks so much, and have a wonderful and hopefully stress-free Christmas.

Kindest regards and best wishes,
-Brian.

 

[Darrel]

Starboard side

On the picture I was cleaning the deck, the main halyard goes to the right of the traveler base to a dedicated wench, the newer line is the main sheet and the far left line is a reefing line.

 

[MarineCityBrian]

Gotcha - so it looks like the main sheet is actually led through a rope clutch (I'd presume so you can use the winch for other purposes if needed)?

And also it looks like you have EXACTLY the same Ronstan 3:1 traveller that I've got. I plan on converting this to 5:1 with Garhauer ball-bearing sheaves (triple block replacing the double on the fixed ends, then two Garhauer double blocks with becket replacing the Schafer single blocks with becket on the car), and hope to post about this in the coming months. A friend argues, "If you can't sheet it one-handed, it doesn't belong on the boat." He's got an NA40, with some pretty slick rigging. His traveller is 5:1 and I'm trying to mimick that while saving $$$.

 

[Christian Williams]

I always get stuck being the other side. But, here goes:

I have a 4-part traveler and find it overkill: Long lines, sloppy to take up when slack, and unnecessarily imposing in scale.

Consider that most of the time we are "relieving" the traveler, i.e. letting it "down." Doesn't take any strength for that.

Consider that most of the time when hauling the traveler "up," the condition is light air. Doesn't take any strength for that.

Also, what's wrong with planting feet and putting your back into it sometimes--if minimal purchase is all you need 90 percent of the time?

I guess I just don;t agree that boats should be "one-handed."

Main sheet: I find a standard cleat, or better yet an open clam cleat, much better than running the main sheet through a line clutch.

the main sheet is a active line, and clutches cause jams. And the main sheet is usually on the winch anyhow.