E38 in WA

[Tooluser]

Does this mean you ended up buying the boat you were looking at? If so, congratulations!

Yes! I'm doing the paperwork now! Thank you!
Looking forward to the Ericson rally in the San Juans this summer.

 

[Vtonian]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

@Prarie Schooner, haha, "good luck finding your 'just right' vessel" could be read as encouraging or ironic, right? ;-) Thank you though.

@Christian Williams, interesting, I have been dismissing everything with the Hunter name out of group-think. Plus, after admiring Thelonious and your handling of her (him?), then looking at the design, performance, layout, size, gear and headroom*, and knowing I won't be happy on a boat that doesn't sail well (I like to leisurely sail quickly), I'd 100% made up my mind on an E38x (although without having stepped onboard one, *ouch). I have heard though that Hunter does a good job of making space to put things and I do have things that need putting so, thanks, I'll widen my scope.

@Nick J, yes, when I see pics of a well kept 38 or 381, it just feels like the right balance of, well, everything. I may be suffering under an internet love affair though, all pics and data, no hoisting and handling.

@Tooluser, You're welcome, and I would absolutely enjoy taking a look at your E38. I'm over on Vashon but get to town occasionally and have to go visit a friend in GH someday soon. I'll be crewing in the GH LeMans race in November, do you ever do that? Also, sailboat paperwork, yay! The only kind that's fun.

 

[Tooluser]

Hunter needs someone writing the elegiac songs that Christian does for the E38 and their values would shoot up…. I’ll DM you.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

@Prarie Schooner, haha, "good luck finding your 'just right' vessel" could be read as encouraging or ironic, right? ;-) Thank you though.
. . .

I wondered about the tone when I wrote that. I meant it sincerely. We never get everything we want. But I really think there's a boat out there better suited to your tastes and needs. Cheers, Jeff

 

[Loren Beach]

Hunter needs someone writing the elegiac songs that Christian does for the E38 and their values would shoot up

No, they would not.
It's not about songs, but rather basic engineering and quality of build. The things that Hun__r gets right are designs for minimal sailing and maximum dockside living.
(That said, I do know a few owners of Hun__r's that did buy them for all the right reasons, and do not defend their boats for being something that they are not. Ditto for our friends that cruised for ten years on a Valiant 40, halfway 'round the world n back. )

 

[Tooluser]

No, they would not.

It was a joke, celebrating the charm of our resident Homer.

Meaning anything more seriously than that would court a pointless argument on the Internet about some random company’s entire multi-decade engineering history, and that would be silly.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Hunter needs someone writing the elegiac songs that Christian does for the E38 and their values would shoot up…. I’ll DM you.

No, they would not.
It's not about songs, but rather basic engineering and quality of build. The things that Hun__r gets right are designs for minimal sailing and maximum dockside living.
(That said, I do know a few owners of Hun__r's that did buy them for all the right reasons, and do not defend their boats for being something that they are not. Ditto for our friends that cruised for ten years on a Valiant 40, halfway 'round the world n back. )

And then, add to the mix the fact that Hunter as a company is for all practical purposes defunct. (They may exist nominally, but I don't think much is happening and most of the operation is closed down--or so I understand it to be the case.)

 

[Christian Williams]

My (only) point is that our boats were not really designed for living aboard, and not really designed for crossing oceans. Intended use is a critical factor. Big Clorox bottles work well, and are seen in all ports of the world with potted plants in the cockpit.

Liveaboard cruising is mostly in port, where windward ability and a sheerline have little practical use. Sounds obvious, and not attractive to Ericson and Olson owners, but a real choice factor. In any case, you go in the boat you have if you go at all. All the rest is armchair.

 

[Vtonian]

Here's the only tip I've heard about Hunter hunting (from the LadyK YT channel): look at the Legend series only. So I have, and they still seem to be a big step backwards in a pure sailing vessel but not quite as bad as their other models. Owning one would feel to me maybe like having one of the more glamorous units in a trailer park. I don't know if I can go there.

That said, I'll have to get onto a few more E38's before I can conclude whether I could spend significant time in one, Spartan living or not, and my height may be more of a determining factor than I'd thought.

 

[Vtonian]

My (only) point is that our boats were not really designed for living aboard, and not really designed for crossing oceans. Intended use is a critical factor. Big Clorox bottles work well, and are seen in all ports of the world with potted plants in the cockpit.

Liveaboard cruising is mostly in port, where windward ability and a sheerline have little practical use. Sounds obvious, and not attractive to Ericson and Olson owners, but a real choice factor. In any case, you go in the boat you have if you go at all. All the rest is armchair.

I get that and it's a point well taken: I will have to live in, as well as live with the choice I make.

 

[Bepi]

@Vtonian thanks for the excellent tour and analysis. It's nice to get to experience the decisions of others. If you're in the Gig Harbor, WA area, you're welcome to take a look at my E38.

Gig Harbor. A good friend of mine owns the local gondola company. Ask for Giovani Cinque....aka John Synco. Gig Harbor is one of the most beautiful places I have ever rowed.

 

[Vtonian]

Whelp.... I bought her. The gentleman that had her was eventually willing to come down to a price I felt I could work with to take it on as a labor of love project, and he felt I was the best candidate of those interested to do right by her.

I made my offer as is/where is, no survey, knowing it's a 40yr old boat that's been neglected and of course it's going to have problems, some of which are likely to take the wind out of my sails. On the other hand, she's got good bones (Ericson!) and I'm reasonably/unreasonably confident that most of the major systems are within basic maintenance and/or not major repair of being at least serviceable or better.

I am aware that optimism about boats is a serious disease and that there are in fact several things I have found which most people would probably consider fairly major and that I choose to think of as part of messing around with boats. This attitude may have contributed somewhat to my recent-ish divorce but who can't say that? I have more boats than divorces, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm still ahead.

I haven't gotten to clearing her out yet and doing a complete inspection, I haven't even raised the sails yet but my first impression after spending a day and a half motoring her home, laden with all the many spares, records and various goodies that came with her is, I'm going to really enjoy this boat.

Yes, there are things that are atypical of E38's but I've grown a little fond of the PO's stalwart efforts to help her be all she could be, as the recruiting posters used to say. Well intended overkill, hardly the worst crime in maritime history. The neglect came from the PO falling ill, so although unfortunate, not an uncommon story and not anyone's fault.

I do want to comment on her performance with the 55hp Yanmar. It runs like a top, so that's the good part and arguably the most important. It cruised the 60 miles of the first leg home mostly at 7 knots, 2200rpm, 175deg temp and, according to the instruments, using around 1.25 gph, in mostly calm water.

That seems fine but here's how the what-happens-when-you-put-a-55hp-engine-in-an-E38 experiment went:

- When sitting still in the water, this boat (as currently loaded) sits with the lower edge of the reverse transom (what's that called, it can't be a chine, maybe a lip?) is maybe about 12 inches above the water.
- Cruising at 7 knots, she sinks down to where the lip is within about an inch or two of the water.
- When I throttled it up to 2500, she would bury the lip about 4 inches under the surface, increase speed maybe .2 (two tenths) of a knot and increase fuel consumption to 2gph+.

I can't say I saw any noticeable difference in engine temp on the instruments at any operating speed, although I didn't try WOT. It's a 4JH57 engine with an Ewol prop but I'm guessing nobody else has one of these in an E38 so doubt I'll ever hear about direct comps but if anyone would share how theirs sit in the water underway, I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, once I get her cleared out so I can see everything, I expect I'll be posting pics along with questions and RFO's (Requests For Opinions).

I expect to have a whole lot of fun with her, starting with a little fall sailing before putting her up for the winter.

 

[Christian Williams]

Regarding your big engine, the squatting of the stern sounds typical for the 38. At 7 knots motoring my transom nearly touches the water, the exhaust is buried, and the wave form limits any more speed.

The Universal 5432 burns .6 gallons/hour, considerably less than yours, although you may not have an accurate handle on your fuel burn at this point.

Keep us up to date on the work at hand, and congrats.

 

[dxulander]

Whelp.... I bought her. The gentleman that had her was eventually willing to come down to a price I felt I could work with to take it on as a labor of love project, and he felt I was the best candidate of those interested to do right by her.

I made my offer as is/where is, no survey, knowing it's a 40yr old boat that's been neglected and of course it's going to have problems, some of which are likely to take the wind out of my sails. On the other hand, she's got good bones (Ericson!) and I'm reasonably/unreasonably confident that most of the major systems are within basic maintenance and/or not major repair of being at least serviceable or better.

I am aware that optimism about boats is a serious disease and that there are in fact several things I have found which most people would probably consider fairly major and that I choose to think of as part of messing around with boats. This attitude may have contributed somewhat to my recent-ish divorce but who can't say that? I have more boats than divorces, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm still ahead.

I haven't gotten to clearing her out yet and doing a complete inspection, I haven't even raised the sails yet but my first impression after spending a day and a half motoring her home, laden with all the many spares, records and various goodies that came with her is, I'm going to really enjoy this boat.

Yes, there are things that are atypical of E38's but I've grown a little fond of the PO's stalwart efforts to help her be all she could be, as the recruiting posters used to say. Well intended overkill, hardly the worst crime in maritime history. The neglect came from the PO falling ill, so although unfortunate, not an uncommon story and not anyone's fault.

I do want to comment on her performance with the 55hp Yanmar. It runs like a top, so that's the good part and arguably the most important. It cruised the 60 miles of the first leg home mostly at 7 knots, 2200rpm, 175deg temp and, according to the instruments, using around 1.25 gph, in mostly calm water.

That seems fine but here's how the what-happens-when-you-put-a-55hp-engine-in-an-E38 experiment went:

- When sitting still in the water, this boat (as currently loaded) sits with the lower edge of the reverse transom (what's that called, it can't be a chine, maybe a lip?) is maybe about 12 inches above the water.
- Cruising at 7 knots, she sinks down to where the lip is within about an inch or two of the water.
- When I throttled it up to 2500, she would bury the lip about 4 inches under the surface, increase speed maybe .2 (two tenths) of a knot and increase fuel consumption to 2gph+.

I can't say I saw any noticeable difference in engine temp on the instruments at any operating speed, although I didn't try WOT. It's a 4JH57 engine with an Ewol prop but I'm guessing nobody else has one of these in an E38 so doubt I'll ever hear about direct comps but if anyone would share how theirs sit in the water underway, I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, once I get her cleared out so I can see everything, I expect I'll be posting pics along with questions and RFO's (Requests For Opinions).

I expect to have a whole lot of fun with her, starting with a little fall sailing before putting her up for the winter.

Congrats, from the pic she looks to be in good shape from the outside. What was the final price if you mind me asking (ball park)?

 

[southofvictor]

Congrats! Our stern point sits about 13” above the water at rest and just about touches the water at full power. I’ve never seen it buried.

 

[Vtonian]

@ Chrsitian, thanks for the info. I made this trip running off light research that suggested 2200rpm was a good operating range, but now I know the correct model, the specific literature for it vaguely recommends 'when operating the engine at low speeds for prolonged periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours', and, 'if possible, periodically operate the engine at near maximum engine speed while underway'. To me, that reads as, maybe it's ok to run it at 1500rpm all day, as long as I race it occasionally and run it near max periodically (and keep an eye on the temp gauge). I'm hoping that nets me a little better gph. Maybe, eventually, a little prop tuning might be in order.
I've also noted the engine hours when I topped up the tank, so whenever I do that again, I'll have a more applied use benchmark.

@dxulander, she does look pretty good from pic distance, how could she not with those saucy lines? Final price was a little under $30k, and assuming I don't uncover any crippling issues that prevent her from sailing while repairing, in 2 years and another $20k invested, I'll have $50k into a boat worth $40k, which I think is acceptable for some good years of sailing and messing around with boats.

@southofvictor, thanks for the info. I'm going to conclude the obvious then: the hulls all perform about the same. If you ever want to see your stern buried though, I could tow you. ;-)

 

[Tooluser]

If you ever want to see your stern buried though, I could tow you. ;-)

Buahaha. Let’s all go water skiing!

 

[Vtonian]

Buahaha. Let’s all go water skiing!

I was thinking wakeboarding, but, yeah!

 

[Vtonian]

Yes! I'm doing the paperwork now! Thank you!
Looking forward to the Ericson rally in the San Juans this summer.

Joshua, or anyone, the article I found about a rally was for 2023. Is there a new sign up instruction page? As a new Ericson-of-a-gun-of-a-sailor, I'd like to attend.

 

[southofvictor]

If you ever want to see your stern buried though, I could tow you. ;-)

Next year I think the PNW Rendezvous is slated for the Canadian side. Can’t remember who stood up to organize though.