E39 for liveaboard and cruising

[klubko]

Hello,
I am new user without a boat
We are currently researching our options and we find E39 very appealing. We still have cca 1-2 years before purchasing the boat (unless bargain pops up). I've asked at rec.boat.cruising about peoples experiences with E39 to get some impartial responses and one post said:
> They are well built, heavy boats that have a decent interior.
> They are squirly off the wind in a blow, and would be a handful with two
> people at just about any time. Big sails, heavy loads, big heavy
> everything.
> A very nice boat that was fun to race 20 years ago. I'd buy something
> smaller.
Another post said: too bad ventilation for tropics.
Could you please share your comments on that?
We are young and handy couple, thinking of a live aboard and cruising, more tropics, SE Asia, where we are now (currently Taiwan). We are on a pretty low budget, but we want a boat that won't be too cramped, that would behave well in heavy weather, wouldn't be too depanding in terms of maintanance (no exterior teak). From our research so far E39 or perhaps 38 seems quite right. Our planned bugdet for the boat is around 40k (US), perhaps 50k for a boat with newish refit. Is it realistic? From some offers on yachtworld and the likes this seems not entirely impossible. Eg. now there is one offering E39 FB in Phillipines for 70k. Isn't that too much?
We'll be thankful for any thoughts on the matter
We are in the painful process of getting our list of potential boats smaller and we are certainly in bad place since there's no cruising in Taiwan and not that many yachts for that matter either...
Is there any specific area of problems that Ericsons suffer from? So far I coulnd't find much (and lot on other boats). What condition can we expect for a boat around 35k (also being offered now on yachtworld), i.e. how much we should we expect to invest in to cruising refit (the typical 10%)?

Thanks a lot
Petr and Jana

 

[NateHanson]

On budget, I think you'd expect to spend well over your budget for a boat with a recent refit, ready for blue-water.

I think a $35,000 E39 is probably due for a great deal of maintenance and upgrading, and you might expect to spend an additional 50 to 100% of purchase price to get it up to speed. If you had lots of time and willingness to work, it could be done for a bit less, but there's still going to be a lot of materials to buy. For extensive cruising, I think your budget is probably a little low.

I'd probably choose a slightly smaller boat in better condition if the budget can't be expanded.

The 70,000 boat you mentioned is currently cruising in the Philipines. Chances are it is much more well-equiped than the boat sitting dockside in Ft. Lauderdale. So 70,000 may be a very fair price. Condition and outfitting will make a really large difference in prices, especially in 30 year-old boats.

 

[klubko]

Thanks a lot to put us into the real world. We have pretty much fallen for E39 (comparing with similar size of Allied, Cabo Rico, Tartan and of course more pricey Valiant and Whitby), perhaps there is a more suitable boat, still searching... but chances are that we will be able to raise the budget a bit, I was trying to be little optimistic.
I don't know if it is the right place to ask for a comparison with above mentioned boats here, but if anyone could spare a moment to comment...
We are little concerned not to buy too small, but I see people happy on 35' and smaller.
We are not afraid of work, being reasonably handy and finding it a real joy, actually.
Time is another problem if the boat is e.g. in the U.S. (none of us is a citizen) so I will have to check if they give visa 'to buy and repair a boat' long enough How long does it took someone to put his/her boat into a good condition, working fultime? 2-6 months?
I know my questions show inexperience, but we learn fast, being devoted to the cause and all

Very greateful for your comments
Petr and Jana

 

[Loren Beach]

Good Info Source

http://www.svpneuma.com/index.html

Awesomely Great personal cruising web site by one of our Ericson site moderators. Reading their narrative about cruising in an E-39 should answer some of your questions.

Best,
Loren




ps: for a viewpoint on going cruising while young, poor, and having to fix everything (!) on an old boat as you go along... read the current adventures of a young couple from my city. http://www.sailestrella.com/
I do envy them their youth and enthusiasm... but not so much the "adventure" of constant repairs and breakdowns.

 

[klubko]

http://www.svpneuma.com/index.html

Great personal cruising web site by one of our Ericson site moderators. Reading their narrative about cruising in an E-39 should answer some of your questions.

Best,
Loren

Thanks a lot, I would have to be ashamed not to know about it, I guess I confess haven't read all of it yet, but certainly the 'leaving NZ' story that I found here in the forums made a great impression on me.
Thanks I do my homework and try to answer some of the questions by reading
Best Petr

 

[Guy Stevens]

Ok....

There is a lot of experience that goes behind every word in this piece.
Anyone is welcome to disagree, but if you do so do it out of experience not advertising hype please.

I think that the 39's are one of the most undervalued cruising boats out there.

Pros:
The boat will take you anywhere that you want to go.
She has a powerful rig, and sails well in light airs. (Which are 80%+ of the time spent cruising).
The boat is incredibly comfortable.
The boat is structurally far superior to a good number of boats being sold as cruising boats out there.
She is a very dry boat. Which adds to the comfort
The boat is EASY to sail, dock and anchor.
The boat has a LOT OF STORAGE! (Too much actually, although there is another conversation here.) Most boats don't have any. Especially newer floating condos.



Cons:
A lot of them have had interior modifications that are really really stupid. Bruce King Designed the best offshore interiors I have EVER been in. People then go and do stupid stuff like Dinettes in them, rip out the flip ups add all sorts of their own design features.... ICK. Try and get a boat that has an original interior. (Sorry if this offends anyone, it was not meant to.)
Most of them need three major projects done:

1> The water tanks probably need to be re silver soldered at the seams.

1a> The fuel tank needs to be replaced if it has not been. (This is done on almost all of them that I have surveyed)

2> On most of the boat that have been in salt water, the mast step, and the forward bulkhead/ballast tie together needs to be replaced. (Both of these projects are under the sole, both are originally 1/2" or so steel weldments that you can replace with g-10 however it is a somewhat largish job for the uninitiated).

3> You need to make the rudder bigger, PER THE PLANS FROM BRUCE KING!


Myths and just plain wrong opinions.
"There is not enough ventilation on Flush Decked boats:.

Opening a 3 foot by three foot hatch over the V berth, throwing a windscoop in it (There are some that work a LOT better than others), and you can have a wind tunnel effect when most of your cruising mates are sweltering.... Really the cabin top crowd was always amazed at how relatively cooler our boat was than theirs was. There is plenty of ventilation on these boats.

"They are well built, heavy boats that have a decent interior". Heavy compared to what? This is not an educated statement. The boat has almost exactly a 50% ballast displacement ratio. Weighs in at 19500 lbs for a 39 footer.

"They are squirly off the wind in a blow". No they were sold and shipped at a time when the racing rules penialized rudder size. They were only squirrelly when you had a spinnaker up, well past when any cruiser would carry one, and were going DDW. We sailed over 50,000 miles on ours, and never was she squirrelly. I have redone the rudder on a couple of them, and with the rudder mod, she handles better, and backs much much better. However even with the stock rudder, she is not Squirrelly unless you plan to fly a huge shute in too much wind. That is coming from someone that sailed 50K miles with the original rudder.

"The boat would be a handful with two people at just about any time. Big sails, heavy loads, big heavy everything." Again compared to what? A Dana 24? A PS 40? A Valient 42? A Freya 39? What???? Ok after the rant.... My wife is not large, not possessed of large amounts of upper body strength, or a super suit. She single handed the boat a number of times. You will need to pay attention to what you are doing. A 30+ year old traveller, Non self tailing winches, and hank on sails are going to make any boat a pain in the arse to sail. So a set of self tailers for the genoa sheets, a self tailer for the main sheet, a roller furling genoa, add a stay sail or solient stay for the 2% of the time that you are going to actually see heavy weather, and it can easily be single handed by any fairly capable crew member.


"A very nice boat that was fun to race 20 years ago. I'd buy something smaller." Interesting opinion, we had friends that were out there in a Vancouver 27, happy as clams. For us, no way, too small.... Most of the people that were out there had boats that were bigger than ours. The average length of the current boat out cruising is 42 feet. We routinely beat 46-54 foot boats into anchor, and had more storage than most of them had by at least 200%. Our recreation gear would not fit on anything smaller. Yours may. Where are you going to put 6 months worth of food? Where are you going to put the spare parts you want to take? Where are you going to put your tools. Where are you going to put the 50-75 lbs of good chocolate? Books, you have to have a lot of books!!!!!!!! We had people come aboard our boat and talk about nothing but the number of SPICES we had aboard for over an hour. They kept telling us how they had two salt and pepper, and counted that we were close to 50 something spices. (How can you cook anything that is edible without spices?). They came over to eat quite frequently and raved to other boats about or cooking. We offered to teach them how to cook just as well, but they never took us up on the offer.

There are a number of people that have sailed on a boat that is say about 40 feet from the 70's and decided that they are too big, and that the fact that most of them are headsail driven, have too many forces to deal with. The problem is that they are comparing apples to breadfruits. The problems with the older boats is old equipment for sail handling. Look at the boat? Is the traveler 30+ years old, and runs on wheels. Put a modern traveler on it. Are there nylon sheaved blocks everywhere? Get some new ball bearing blocks on it, and see what happens then. Hank on sails...... Non self tailing winches? (Heck my 35 footer was a pain in the ass for two people to sail with non self tailing winches.) Yeah you can spend some money on these projects, sailing gear is not cheap. But what is cheaper a 30K Ericson 39 that you add 20K in upgrades to (Say 55k), or a 120K newer boat that you don't have to work on at all. (Ha ha ha,,,, Hang on I am laughing too hard to type..... Does it come with a left handed smoke shifter and a snipe too?).

Enough for the day..... Jeeze, think I had a soft spot for these particular boat

Guy

 

[klubko]

Petr - I own an Ericson 39B and would disagree with some of the points mentioned earlier. The 39 is a dated hull design but it is well-suited for cruising. I like the "B" version better but many of the flush-deck 39's have made a lot of successful passages. They have an easy motion at sea, even off the wind, so I think you would be happy with your choice. Check out Greg and Melissa's web site:

www.queserasailing.com

They have been out sailing for 8 or 9 months now and you can see from the pics and the text that the 39 hull is a good one for cruising.

What do you do in Taiwan? I spent 5 months there in the early 80's working on the Kelly/Peterson 46 for Queen Long Marine in Kaohsiung. I really enjoyed my stay there.

My own boat might be for sale - $50K - just in case anyone out there might be interested.

Thanks. That confirms what we've gathered so far. Excellent.
Yes I've been reading www.queserasailing.com as well
We both study PhD here, computational linguistics (me) and Chinese literature (my girlfriend). We surely enjoy it here as well (both being sinologists and all), but we don't get much sailing (apart from sailing our Mirror) and maintaining (they have pierced the hull of our Mirror with a dolly right in front of my eyes, so learned to repair even before we could sail -- lot of fun -- both sailing and repair).
I wish your boat would still be available 1 year from now
Thanks a lot for support in our choice (which is far from firm, of course)
Petr

 

[klubko]

There is a lot of experience that goes behind every word in this piece.
....
Enough for the day..... Jeeze, think I had a soft spot for these particular boat

Guy

Nothing better than couple of experienced people reassuring ones vague notions of what is good and what's not...
We definitely need lot of room for books, being bookworms by profession (well me less recently)
Very greatful for a comprehensive post.
I wouldn't ponder on buying E39 if there was not the problem of transport, but I am sure that when time comes, we will figure that out. Well in case we will be bying a boat from the U.S., I am sure we will be able to find couple of people that would pilot with us across Pacific
Best
Petr

 

[evm]

E39 are very nice

Some advantages to a local boat....getting one from the US to you would take time. Our E39 may be up for sale....

(Everything Guy said)

The E39 is way undervalued for some reason. I've had mine for about 10 years and mostly single hand while my wife reads. That includes single hand a spinnaker. I mostly sail on a river so perhaps that is not a fair statement.

Coastal trips from Portland to the San Juans are easy in this boat. Powerful upwind going North and sea kindly motion. Coming home with 20 kt on the quarter and 10-12' following seas the motion is fine. I remember one night in such conditions single handing where the boat was averaging 10 kt with 13-14 kt surfs on the waves. This was all steered with a Raymarine ST4000 pilot. THat a small pilot for this size boat. I would often take over the steering just for the joy of it rather than let the pilot have all the fun.

Do keep the flip up berths and table. You can flip up the starboard berths and have a good sea berth and flip up the port table leaf and have a nice place to sit and eat or read. All without blocking the passage to the head and v berth.


Regards, Ethan

 

[klubko]

To quote a famous Guy: Anyone is welcome to disagree, but if you do so do it out of experience not advertising hype please.

Dang...My first post in months and I get my wrist slapped.

If I could remember how to delete that part of the post, I would. No harm or advertising hype was intended. I'm relatively sick at the prospect of selling out, anyway - we are in the process of trying to build a house on a lot that my wife inherited but there are some substantial financial committments that make it foolish for us to keep a boat at the same time.

Back to the subject at hand - Whatever became of the great Maverick debate? I always thought maybe that E39 was dropped at some point in its history. The online pics certainly gave me a lot of doubts about Serendipity before I bought her. I don't give it a second thought now, but at the time...

Good luck Petr - Enjoy your stay in Taiwan. Beautiful country, beautiful people.

Quick question: Have you thought about approaching one of the yacht builders there to sell you a boat at their price, have them plop it in the water, and then you sail off into the sunset? It sounds ridiculous but I could have bought a 44 footer for $70K new from the yard - the law stipulated that you could take possession if the boat was launched when new and then sailed out of the country. I know that sounds foolhardy, but stranger things have been done. I'd have sailed it down to the Phillipines and then fitted her out for sea...Okay, so what I'm stupid...

Thank you, we've been here 2 years non-stop (and another 2 years before) and it has been a very pleasant time... and we still have 2 years (perhaps more) to go...

Funny think to be in a country that exports (has exported, not sure how much they build now) so many boats and almost not being able to sail... We haven't thought about getting the boat build here, but it certainly is an interesting idea. I am sure one would have to spend a lot of time in the yard to check the quality, which we could do... Could that really be done that cheap? Earlier we've also thought about Tayanas, but they don't seem to be any close to that money and they still have some quality control problems as people report.

Also friend of ours, experienced sailor that has circumnavigated and lived on boats for many years, told us that on a tighter budget there is probably nothing better that 70's 80's boat that have usually rather strong fiberglass hulls compared to much newer boats and then spend some money on refit, but that might not apply to all yards.

Actually before we came across Ericsons, our favorite was Formosa/CT 41, really beautiful, roomy, but bad sailor in light winds and lot of problems (one of the favorite: teak screwed through FB deck directly into balsa - rot and leak), but the yard won't make them anymore, they one make only 46+ foot boats, which is too big for us.

Since we still have about 1 to 2 years time before being able to buy and refit the boat, we will still for the options, finding local or nearer boat being the most important factor. It's much more managable to get the boat to Thailand, Phillipines of Malaysia to refit it than across Pacific

Thanks for you support everyone
Petr and Jana

 

[emagin]

What About E39B

I was curious if these "cons" also apply to the E39B
Hard to find but they seem well made.
Are the E39B steel rings tying things together also susceptible to rust or is it of a different quality than the E39 ?

Are the modified rudder specs available online for E39B

Thanks

Cons:
A lot of them have had interior modifications that are really really stupid. Bruce King Designed the best offshore interiors I have EVER been in. People then go and do stupid stuff like Dinettes in them, rip out the flip ups add all sorts of their own design features.... ICK. Try and get a boat that has an original interior. (Sorry if this offends anyone, it was not meant to.)
Most of them need three major projects done:

1> The water tanks probably need to be re silver soldered at the seams.

1a> The fuel tank needs to be replaced if it has not been. (This is done on almost all of them that I have surveyed)

2> On most of the boat that have been in salt water, the mast step, and the forward bulkhead/ballast tie together needs to be replaced. (Both of these projects are under the sole, both are originally 1/2" or so steel weldments that you can replace with g-10 however it is a somewhat largish job for the uninitiated).

3> You need to make the rudder bigger, PER THE PLANS FROM BRUCE KING!