A good starting point would be to contact your yacht club's handicapper.
Loren
Loren
well, i asked the guy who did the new sails for me (he races out of BC, and is his club's handicapper), and this is what he said:
"Your tall mast version is not in PHRF-NW Table 3 or the new standard class database."
etc.
so that's why i thought i'd ask here.
Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
I have a 1973 E-27 with an outboard. Have owned and sailed the boat since 1976. Rates 256 in the Western Florida PHRF. The last time I raced the boat, I finished 6 minutes and 30 seconds actual time ahead of the second place boat in my class. It was a 12-mile race.
Morgan Stinemetz
Morgan Stinemetz
Ratings?
Thanks for the info Morgan. I thought the PHRF would be less because the boat weighs less with an outboard. I've been seeing numbers like 234-241 for inboard models. I know that ratings vary for different organizations but is it also the sailing conditions that determine rating?
Grant Kiba
'73 E27, #406
Thanks for the info Morgan. I thought the PHRF would be less because the boat weighs less with an outboard. I've been seeing numbers like 234-241 for inboard models. I know that ratings vary for different organizations but is it also the sailing conditions that determine rating?
Grant Kiba
'73 E27, #406
Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
Grant,
The criteria a PHRF rating is based upon comes from PERFORMANCE. I have found that my boat is a killer in light to medium conditions. Much over 15 knots, the bigger boats nail me with their longer waterlines. I have a deck sweeper tri-radial 155 gennie that I only use for racing. The rest of the time, I sail with a working jib because there is better visibility under the jib and it gives me all the power I want with no hard work.
Morgan
The criteria a PHRF rating is based upon comes from PERFORMANCE. I have found that my boat is a killer in light to medium conditions. Much over 15 knots, the bigger boats nail me with their longer waterlines. I have a deck sweeper tri-radial 155 gennie that I only use for racing. The rest of the time, I sail with a working jib because there is better visibility under the jib and it gives me all the power I want with no hard work.
Morgan
good source
Here's a pretty good reference from US Sailing: http://www.ussailing.org/phrf/
They list a Low, a High, and an Average rating for the fleets reporting across the country. To summarize their findings on the E27:
The E27 IB rates 222 246 231
The E27 OB rates 216 240 225
The E27 TM OB rates 213 213 213
which I interpret to mean that there aren't many TM outboards racing and having their results reported - probably just one; and that there aren't ANY TM inboards racing and having their results imported . . . but if there were, then extrapolating the above numbers to reflect the six-second difference between IB and OB would yield 219 for a TM IB. However, that is stretching a little data a long way, and you know what they say about lies, damn lies, and statistics...
You might check the ratings your area assigns other boats against the ratings for the same boats on this list to get a feel for whatever adjustments are necessary.
Here's a pretty good reference from US Sailing: http://www.ussailing.org/phrf/
They list a Low, a High, and an Average rating for the fleets reporting across the country. To summarize their findings on the E27:
The E27 IB rates 222 246 231
The E27 OB rates 216 240 225
The E27 TM OB rates 213 213 213
which I interpret to mean that there aren't many TM outboards racing and having their results reported - probably just one; and that there aren't ANY TM inboards racing and having their results imported . . . but if there were, then extrapolating the above numbers to reflect the six-second difference between IB and OB would yield 219 for a TM IB. However, that is stretching a little data a long way, and you know what they say about lies, damn lies, and statistics...
You might check the ratings your area assigns other boats against the ratings for the same boats on this list to get a feel for whatever adjustments are necessary.
E27Peregrine
Junior Member
What have I got?
How can I tell if my e27 outboard is a tall rig or standard?
-Scott Church
E27 peregrine 1972 #201
How can I tell if my e27 outboard is a tall rig or standard?
-Scott Church
E27 peregrine 1972 #201
i attached a tape measure to my main halyard shackle and ran it up the mast from the boom. the standard rig has an "E" of 28, while the tall rig is 30 or a skitch more.
E27Peregrine
Junior Member
The "E"
I would assume, then, that the E is the distance from boom to masthead..
I would assume, then, that the E is the distance from boom to masthead..
Actually, no. Close, though.
The top of the "E" measurement would be to the top of the main sail. This would be below the sheave thru which the main halyard goes, and therefore below the very top of the masthead. There could be as much as a foot of difference.
Loren
Did Loren say that??
I think he knows better-maybe a long day at the office?
The "E" measurement refers to the distance from the back face of the mast to the point on the boom where the clew of the mainsail is designed to be located at max tension-or put simply, the "E" approximates the foot length the mainsail, less deductions for the tack setback (or where the tack pin is)about 1" aft of the back face of the mast.
The "P", which approximates the LUFF length of the mainsail, is the vertical distance measured from a line (often marked with a band or tape) on the mast even with the top of the boom up to the point near the masthead where the head of the mainsail will be when fully hoisted. This will usually be a few inches below the main halyard sheave..In thinking of the mast and boom forming a right triangle with the leech of the main as the hypotenuse, the P and E are the base and height respectively and refer to the gross LUFF and FOOT lengths for the mainsail.
The "I" is measured from the top of the genoa halyard sheave down to the base of the upper shroud chainplates (well-that is the closest point you can actually measure with a tape-the actual location is called "base of I", and is slightly lower). The "I" dimension forms the height (long side) of the right triangle forward of the mast (the "foretriangle"), with the "J" being the base of same. The "J" is measured from the forward face of the mast to the stem fitting on the bow-the headstay is the hypotenuse of this right triangle..
None of the I,J, P,E are actually measured to the masthead.
IIRC, the P for the std. rig 27 is 28', and the E is 10'
Hope this helps,
S
I think he knows better-maybe a long day at the office?
The "E" measurement refers to the distance from the back face of the mast to the point on the boom where the clew of the mainsail is designed to be located at max tension-or put simply, the "E" approximates the foot length the mainsail, less deductions for the tack setback (or where the tack pin is)about 1" aft of the back face of the mast.
The "P", which approximates the LUFF length of the mainsail, is the vertical distance measured from a line (often marked with a band or tape) on the mast even with the top of the boom up to the point near the masthead where the head of the mainsail will be when fully hoisted. This will usually be a few inches below the main halyard sheave..In thinking of the mast and boom forming a right triangle with the leech of the main as the hypotenuse, the P and E are the base and height respectively and refer to the gross LUFF and FOOT lengths for the mainsail.
The "I" is measured from the top of the genoa halyard sheave down to the base of the upper shroud chainplates (well-that is the closest point you can actually measure with a tape-the actual location is called "base of I", and is slightly lower). The "I" dimension forms the height (long side) of the right triangle forward of the mast (the "foretriangle"), with the "J" being the base of same. The "J" is measured from the forward face of the mast to the stem fitting on the bow-the headstay is the hypotenuse of this right triangle..
None of the I,J, P,E are actually measured to the masthead.
IIRC, the P for the std. rig 27 is 28', and the E is 10'
Hope this helps,
S
Seth is right..., again!
I was thinking of the P measurement... the vertical one, really...
I got sidetracked by the reference to the masthead, and then went even further off the track..
Loren
I was thinking of the P measurement... the vertical one, really...
I got sidetracked by the reference to the masthead, and then went even further off the track..
Loren
Seth is right..., again!
I was thinking of the P measurement... the vertical one, really...
I got sidetracked by the reference to the masthead, and then went even further off the track..
Loren
i think a review of the record will show that it was my carelessness
that started the snowball tumbling toward the hapless village below. my apologies!
obiwanrazzy
Member II
PHRF Northwest
I'm not sure if this will help, but you might contact PHRF NW directly since I think there are regional differences.
http://www.phrf-nw.org/
It looks like you might have to join to get a specific rating. I dunno...
I'm not sure if this will help, but you might contact PHRF NW directly since I think there are regional differences.
http://www.phrf-nw.org/
It looks like you might have to join to get a specific rating. I dunno...