Ericson 29 – Converting from Atomic 4 to diesel, and from tiller to wheel steering

[Kineman]

My Ericson 29 has a seized Atomic 4 that I would like to replace with a marine diesel. I have a working 6Hp single cylinder Farymann K30M diesel, and would like to know if you have experience installing something like this on an Ericson 27-29 or know if this would/would not be a suitable engine for the Ericson 29? If not the Farymann K30M, what would you recommend? I would prefer to install a marine diesel somewhat larger than the K30M – either a working diesel, or one I can rebuild – and hope someone out there can give me a lead.

Also looking for a wheel steering assembly for the Ericson 29 – kit or salvaged parts.

 

[Christian Williams]

There are some good comments about wheel steering conversions in the threads listed below ("Similar threads").

Having rebuilt a Yacht Specialties pedestal and steering system, I can say that finding a used system and installing it would be quite an undertaking. Parts are scarce for any used system. Working area is cramped. Custom installations are challenging.

Whatever else, a tiller is simpler and gives better control than a wheel and is much easier to rig for inexpensive self-steering, either with a Tillermaster, bungee cords or a $6000 Monitor.

You knew that already, but maybe it helps if a guy with a wheel says it.

 

[PDX]

I think you'd be way under powered. What does your boat weigh, about 8000 lbs? That engine is only 300 cc. I think you need about twice that size and power, minimum. The original gas engine that came with my boat (E-30) was about 900 cc and 12 HP. And that was back in the days (1968) when sailboard inboards were considered true "auxiliaries," intended mainly for getting in and out of marinas.

If you prefer an older single cylinder engine, Farymann made singles that were about twice that size and power. Yanmar has also made a single in the 12 HP range, in wide use with a good reputation. I know someone with a Cascade 29 who repowered with a used Yanmar single. He motors on the Columbia River (no slouch when it comes to current at certain times and places) and is quite happy with it.

 

[Kineman]

There are some good comments about wheel steering conversions in the threads listed below ("Similar threads").

Having rebuilt a Yacht Specialties pedestal and steering system, I can say that finding a used system and installing it would be quite an undertaking. Parts are scarce for any used system. Working area is cramped. Custom installations are challenging.

Whatever else, a tiller is simpler and gives better control than a wheel and is much easier to rig for inexpensive self-steering, either with a Tillermaster, bungee cords or a $6000 Monitor.

You knew that already, but maybe it helps if a guy with a wheel says it.

Thanks, Christian. It does help to hear this from one with experience installing a wheel.

 

[Kineman]

I think you'd be way under powered. What does your boat weigh, about 8000 lbs? That engine is only 300 cc. I think you need about twice that size and power, minimum. The original gas engine that came with my boat (E-30) was about 900 cc and 12 HP. And that was back in the days (1968) when sailboard inboards were considered true "auxiliaries," intended mainly for getting in and out of marinas.

If you prefer an older single cylinder engine, Farymann made singles that were about twice that size and power. Yanmar has also made a single in the 12 HP range, in wide use with a good reputation. I know someone with a Cascade 29 who repowered with a used Yanmar single. He motors on the Columbia River (no slouch when it comes to current at certain times and places) and is quite happy with it.

Thanks – Wishful thinking on my part, I think. You are correct. The displacement is about 8,000 lbs. The K30M was fine for the 5,000 lbs 25' sloop it came from (top speed 6 knots), and I did use it only when needed to get in and out of port. I can see I'll need something bigger for the Ericson.

 

[Kineman]

Westerbeke 42B diesel on Ericson 29

What about a Westerbeke 42B 4-cylinder diesel as replacement for the Atomic 4 on an Ericson 29? 42 Hp at 3600 rpm, dry weight 419 lbs.

 

[Alan Gomes]

What about a Westerbeke 42B 4-cylinder diesel as replacement for the Atomic 4 on an Ericson 29? 42 Hp at 3600 rpm, dry weight 419 lbs.

Too big and heavy, and way more power than you need. You could get by with less than half of that hp.

 

[Loren Beach]

On the other Hand.......

My Ericson 29 has a seized Atomic 4 that I would like to replace with a marine diesel. I have a working 6Hp single cylinder Farymann K30M diesel, and would like to know if you have experience installing something like this on an Ericson 27-29 or know if this would/would not be a suitable engine for the Ericson 29? If not the Farymann K30M, what would you recommend? I would prefer to install a marine diesel somewhat larger than the K30M – either a working diesel, or one I can rebuild – and hope someone out there can give me a lead.

Also looking for a wheel steering assembly for the Ericson 29 – kit or salvaged parts.

While I normally am firmly in the "Diesels are Good" cheering section...
:nerd:

I was out today for a test sail/trial on a '71 E-29. (I was just a line handler and crew for the widow that's selling it.)
Tiller, A4 gas engine.
In light air it sailed very well even with a couple years of slime growth on the bottom.

And the engine was Sooooo quiet. Different.... than a diesel. Completely. !!!!
This particular boat has a well-maintained engine, and it started and ran very very smoothly.
Oh, and did I mention that it was quiet?


So, while I applaud the proposal for a diesel, and I do like my Universal diesel, it might be worth some slight consideration to just swap in a rebuilt A4.
(Oh my! Did I just say that!?)



Loren

 

[Alan Gomes]

While I normally am firmly in the "Diesels are Good" cheering section...
:nerd:

I was out today for a test sail/trial on a '71 E-29. (I was just a line handler and crew for the widow that's selling it.)
Tiller, A4 gas engine.
In light air it sailed very well even with a couple years of slime growth on the bottom.

And the engine was Sooooo quiet. Different.... than a diesel. Completely. !!!!
This particular boat has a well-maintained engine, and it started and ran very very smoothly.
Oh, and did I mention that it was quiet?


So, while I applaud the proposal for a diesel, and I do like my Universal diesel, it might be worth some slight consideration to just swap in a rebuilt A4.
(Oh my! Did I just say that!?)



Loren

Very sound advice, Loren. (Except for the part about yanking a perfectly good Universal diesel and replacing it with an A4--which you said in jest, right?

The other attractions of sticking with a rebuilt A4 that you didn't mention: (1) It would be a drop-in replacement, thus eliminating the considerable fuss involved in a gas to diesel conversion. (2) The Moyer A4 forum is a fantastic resource for parts and advice. They are even casting brand new blocks! So if one wanted to spend the money, one could repower with essentially a *new* A4 and still come out dollars ahead.

 

[tenders]

With Moyer's amazing parts support, the only reason for repowering from A4 to diesel today is that you truly need the longer range of a diesel and find that range worth the $5k incremental cost of repowering over a rebuild drop-in.

Then there is the question of what's so great about an old Farymann diesel. Is there still parts support for that?

Your existing A4 can probably be repaired for much less than a rebuild drop-in.

Repowering is a huge project. There's the engine, obviously, but also the mounts, engine bed, fuel system, engine controls, electrical rewiring, shaft, new strut (because the shaft won't come out of the engine at the same angle)...big bucks, big time investment.

Wheel vs. tiller...obviously a matter of preference. My 32 has a tiller and I quite like it.

 

[sboone7823@aol.]

i had 29 with wheel and A4. Loved the wheel, got used to the A4

My Ericson 29 has a seized Atomic 4 that I would like to replace with a marine diesel. I have a working 6Hp single cylinder Farymann K30M diesel, and would like to know if you have experience installing something like this on an Ericson 27-29 or know if this would/would not be a suitable engine for the Ericson 29? If not the Farymann K30M, what would you recommend? I would prefer to install a marine diesel somewhat larger than the K30M – either a working diesel, or one I can rebuild – and hope someone out there can give me a lead.

Also looking for a wheel steering assembly for the Ericson 29 – kit or salvaged parts.

Universal (westerbeke) makes diesel with same footprint. Diesel does not go "BOOM", and for that reason I prefer diesel to gas. As for the wheel, I loved it. After I sold the 29 I had a couple of boats with tillers and I just didn't enjoy them as much. I had an autohelm and that may have been part of the influence. I have the original owners manual for the 29 and it seems to me that there is a statement in there that says it takes 8hp to make the 6kt displacement hull speed. (the A4 is about 20-30 depending on condition) 6hp won't cut it going upstream against a falling time.

 

[adam]

And the engine was Sooooo quiet. Different.... than a diesel. Completely. !!!!
This particular boat has a well-maintained engine, and it started and ran very very smoothly.
Oh, and did I mention that it was quiet?


So, while I applaud the proposal for a diesel, and I do like my Universal diesel, it might be worth some slight consideration to just swap in a rebuilt A4.
(Oh my! Did I just say that!?)

Just another vote in support of the A4.

I've been very happy with mine, especially since I upgraded to an indigo prop for it.

 

[Bill Sanborn]

E29 / a4

I sent you a private message thru this site. Call me if your interested.

 

[Kevin A Wright]

I think a 6hp would be way underpowered for you E29. I put a Perkins 3cyl M20 diesel into my E27 to replace the A4 and sailed her for 19 years on it with never a hitch until I sold her. The M20 (18hp) was probably a little more than needed for the E27, but when you are fighting 5kt currents and 30kt winds in the Straights it was just right. It did require me to raise the engine bed 2 1/2 inches (couple of blocks of Ash bolted in) and to raise the engine compartment cover 1", but the exhaust and controls were on the same side as the A4 which helped.

Also switched to a 1" shaft from the 3/4" which meant new stuffing box. You will also need to change the prop (lower RPM on a diesel with more torque). Didn't change out the fuel tank, just emptied and added a return line for the diesel so that was easy. Was really nice since my fuel consumption dropped from 1 gal/hr with the A4 to 0.3 gal/hr with the diesel, trippling my range.

There are lots of die hard A4 guys out there who will never give up their atomic bombs until it is pried out of their cold, dead hands. And they do make a lot of good points.

If you don't see yourself keeping the boat for many years, any type of a repower probably isn't worth it. Just repair/rebuild the A4 and get on with it. But if you see yourself in this boat for 10 years or more (and have the bucks), go for the diesel. You'll never regret it.

Kevin Wright
E35 O Barquinho

 

[Christian Williams]

You know, if you feel the need for a wheel and diesel, it really might pay to think about a new boat.

It's amazing the cost-effectiveness if you have time to really study the market and make hard-headed offers without emotion.

A boat that costs 3K more frequently provides 6K worth of upgrades--even if you were planning to do the upgrades yourself.

This fact is the flip-side of upgrading your own boat--when you sell it, you're lucky to get any of the investment back.

 

[Kevin A Wright]

<You know, if you feel the need for a wheel and diesel, it really might pay to think about a new boat.>

Very sound and logical advice. But think of all the fun you would be missing! Spending weeks crawling around in a tiny engine compartment twisted into unbelievable shapes in an attempt to free corroded fittings. Spending money like it is going out of style. Hoisting an engine in and out 20 times to figure out the new configuration and get the alignment right. All the bloody knuckles and new vocabulary... How could anyone pass up an opportunity like that?

Seriously, if you want to reach a new level of intimacy with your boat, all you need to do is a repower.

Kevin Wright
E35 O Barquinho

 

[frick]

from A4 to Yanmar

My trusty old Atomic 4 died.
I looked at rebuilding... even replacing with a used A4.
I had no plans of selling my boat so I started research which lead to a new yanmar.

I put in a Yanmar 2gm20f. The larger shaft fit in the exsisting shaft tube. New cutless, new prop, new controls. Pulled the fuel tank and powerwashed it inside and out.

The diesel was a bit taller so I built a box to cover the yanmar. Looks nice.

The new muffler and exhaust run was through the old battery location. I moved the batteries to the lazaret.

I have had ten years of trouble free sailing and motoring. I would it again in a heartbeat.

FYI, the Yanmar came with new mounts, cables and gauges.

Merry Christmas
Rick