Ericson 29 - what to watch for?

[toddster]

Interesting about the standing rigging differences; I am now curious if there was a failure of the backstay that might explain the big patch job there.
Curious which upgrades are not original - the heater is the main one, but most other things I thought were stock?
The swim ladder seemed fine from a dinghy, but I see your point... it'll help keep us fit! The electrical panel is certainly dated, and not a big fan of fuses, but if it's not all corroded on the back side, I'll leave it for now. I suspect once I get into the wiring, I won't be able to stop until it's all replaced, so I need to choose which rabbit holes I want to go down...

What year is your 29? Do you have any photos of the mast base with the mast off? Curious if dropping it either at the dock, or on the trailer in the parking lot is something we can manage. The owner's manual makes it sound easy, providing you have a topping lift, which this one doesn't.

Well, maybe I can see the photos better on my office monitor than I could on the iPad last night. Upgrades I noticed included Anchoring gear, roller furler, nice Newport heater, spreader lights, lazy jacks, dodger, solar charger, various rigging.
I see there is a full-batten sail. My sailmaker assured me that if I ordered full battens, with that type of sail track, little tears would develop around the luff end of each batten. So I'm curious whether there is any sign of that actually happening?

WAIT, wait, wait. Surely that is not a PVC elbow on the head intake through-hull that we see in pic 27? And surely it is not located between the through-hull and the valve? Because that would be a boat-sinker thingy right there...

BTW: If you drop the ladder to a good depth for swimmers to board, right there on the centerline, it will touch the tip of the rudder. Don't ask me how I know.

Mine is a 71. It's hull #134, and Shandy appears to be hull #505, so a bit down the line.

That page in the manual is for masts mounted on a tabernacle and with a special bridle to make the boom act as a gin-pole. That boat does not have a tabernacle, just a standard fixed shoe. Mine is under a foot of snow right now but I will try to clear it tomorrow unless snowmageddon is upon us again. You have to lift the mast straight up a couple inches to clear the shoe, and probably a little higher to deal with disconnecting the internal wiring. Last fall, we had to tap it with a mallet quite a bit to get it to let go and put quite a bit of upward force on it with the crane - a bit of corrosion happened.

I'm not familiar with that muffler, but it looks like they've mounted it high up under the deck in the same fashion as the A4 standpipe configuration. Which does not suffer from the siphon effect because it forms its own vented loop. Maybe something similar is going on?

 

[sgwright67]

Well, maybe I can see the photos better on my office monitor than I could on the iPad last night. Upgrades I noticed included Anchoring gear, roller furler, nice Newport heater, spreader lights, lazy jacks, dodger, solar charger, various rigging.
I see there is a full-batten sail. My sailmaker assured me that if I ordered full battens, with that type of sail track, little tears would develop around the luff end of each batten. So I'm curious whether there is any sign of that actually happening?

WAIT, wait, wait. Surely that is not a PVC elbow on the head intake through-hull that we see in pic 27? And surely it is not located between the through-hull and the valve? Because that would be a boat-sinker thingy right there...

BTW: If you drop the ladder to a good depth for swimmers to board, right there on the centerline, it will touch the tip of the rudder. Don't ask me how I know.

Mine is a 71. It's hull #134, and Shandy appears to be hull #505, so a bit down the line.

That page in the manual is for masts mounted on a tabernacle and with a special bridle to make the boom act as a gin-pole. That boat does not have a tabernacle, just a standard fixed shoe. Mine is under a foot of snow right now but I will try to clear it tomorrow unless snowmageddon is upon us again. You have to lift the mast straight up a couple inches to clear the shoe, and probably a little higher to deal with disconnecting the internal wiring. Last fall, we had to tap it with a mallet quite a bit to get it to let go and put quite a bit of upward force on it with the crane - a bit of corrosion happened.

I'm not familiar with that muffler, but it looks like they've mounted it high up under the deck in the same fashion as the A4 standpipe configuration. Which does not suffer from the siphon effect because it forms its own vented loop. Maybe something similar is going on?

Good to know about the upgrades; here I was thinking it was pretty plain compared to many boats I've looked at (but also much cheaper). The spreader lights may be a factory option, as the fuse panel label looks original. It's on my list to check if they work, along with all the other electrical...

I'll have to inspect the sail closer - I was surprised how good it looked for an original sail. It appears to be much higher quality than the 5 year old genoa which has some stitching coming loose. I guess the factory North sails are pretty good. There is supposed to be another main, so I hope that it is also decent. Maybe the other is a performance sail, which might explain why the original is so clean looking.

I think that PVC elbow is after the valve - I recall seeing it and not liking it much, but it should be ok for now.

That's not good news about the mast and may change things for getting it trailered. I will call around to see who has a crane. I know the yard with a travel-lift does, but not sure if they can pluck the mast off the boat when it's in the water. I'd rather not pay for a lift and a trailering.

The muffler was the first thing I noticed as it appeared to be nicely installed, except for missing a second hose clamp (which was mentioned in an old survey). Maybe it doesn't need two clamps being so high, but clamps are cheap.

We had a 2hr blizzard this morning which dumped 2" of white stuff on the roads, and 2hrs later it was all gone (well, except for the remnants of 2' of dirty snow) and up to 7C with the sun shining! Nice sailing weather - I saw someone sailing at the bay, just before noticing the Paceship 26 washed up on the beach from the last storm. Another ~36' sailboat was dismasted by a loose derelict and also washed ashore, but it had already been re-floated. Bad year for storms has me re-thinking the insurance thing. I found one company which will insure it based on the an survey so I might go that route.

Thanks!

 

[Afrakes]

Mast base

FYI Paired photo. Typical static mast base on the left and a hinged mast base with organizer on the right. Hinged mast base mounted on the mast.

 

[sgwright67]

FYI Paired photo. Typical static mast base on the left and a hinged mast base with organizer on the right. Hinged mast base mounted on the mast.

Thanks, this is helpful. So the 29 base looks like the one on the left. I noticed the casting support at the rear doesn't extend all the way aft, so there may be enough space to allow tilting the mast forward. The concern is that if there isn't, it will deform the base of the mast. I know toddster mentioned that his was stuck on and required a good tug from the crane to break it free, but that was with a vertical force. A tilting force might work better, and I could spray around the base with PB blaster in advance to loosen things up. I suppose I could always try to rig a line to the halyards, release the back stay, and see of the mast will tilt away from the plate at all. Of course, there is also the issue of how to deal with the furler rigid sections. Do I detach the forestay at the bottom while lowering the mast from the rear (stabilized by the upper and forward shrouds on each side), and have someone guide the rigid furler section off to one side and then onto the deck beside the mast?

It would be easy if I could use the 80' boom lift I have access to at home...

 

[sgwright67]

Hold that thought...

On second look, I see that the rear casting piece does contact the inside of the mast, as that's where the mainsail track recess is. So this explains the tight fit that toddster encountered - years of corrosion will make that stick on well, and also means tipping it will just mangle the mast base. So a crane it is, then...

Thanks.

 

[Afrakes]

Crane necessary

A crane or an elaborate A-Frame taller than the spreaders, well secured and with a block and tackle to lift the mast.

 

[toddster]

Al's photos are examples. I think you'll find that the base under that mast looks pretty much exactly like this:


I added the PVC fitting as a dam to keep water from running into the wiring channel. The PO (or the factory?) had just hogged-out one of the mounting holes and stuffed wire through. I don't love this solution, since during demasting or masting there is a frantic moment of yanking or stuffing wires through the hole. Not all of the terminals survive the process, as you can see. I installed a terminal box on the bulkhead just below. The factory solution was just to run the wire behind some trim with a (corroded-away) plug and socket hidden under the mast. But I added a lot more toys and wires. At least this way it would theoretically be possible to run a fish tape up through there without unstepping the mast.

The current plan is to install an organizer plate under the base before re-launch. I hadn't really considered using a hinged plate, but now I suppose I'll have to think about it for a couple of days. Had actually planned to place the order today.
Man that looks awful! The putative crane-in date was supposed to be March 15 but I haven't even got started on the deck rehab and another foot of snow is forecast by tomorrow. Maybe May 15...

 

[sgwright67]

So much for a handshake...

Thanks Toddster, for the photo.

Sadly, I think the boat is gone. We got home from the boat show to an email from the owner saying that someone had arrived at the boat and given them a better offer. What's worse, she says she didn't think we'd agree on a price, despite me telling her over the phone that I would meet her counter offer, and then texting her to ask if they wanted cash, cheque or e-transfer. I grew up in the days when your word or a handshake meant something, so this really makes me sick to my stomach. I already have the cash in hand, prepared in case we decided just sail it away tomorrow.

It may be difficult not to spend the money on a trip somewhere and try to forget about the last 8 months of trying to find a boat. I have left a message saying I will beat the offer, and even forego the seatrail, but it's probably too late.

Thanks to all you good people here who have been so helpful, but I fear this is the end of this chapter.

 

[Frank Langer]

So sorry to hear that! It's very unfair!
But sometimes life is like that, and maybe a much better deal will come along with a boat in better shape! There are lots of good Ericsons on the west coast, and even some good other boats as well.
I hope you find the boat of your dreams soon!
Frank

 

[toddster]

That's the way it goes sometimes.

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that.
Sadly, Craigslist (and similar) kind of goes by the law of the jungle. Whoever shows up with cash gets the deal first. I've been on both ends of that.
When I bought this boat, I had been looking seriously at three or four boats. They had all been listed for months and months. Then one day, something was in the air. I drove 200 miles to see one, but during the time I was driving, someone bought it. So I called up the owner of the beautifully restored Cal 28 that I had been leaning toward anyway and closed the deal. I just had to wait until the banks opened on Monday to draw out the cash. On Sunday, someone showed up with cash and sailed it away. So on Monday, I really lit a fire under the owners of the Ericson and got them to meet me at the boat and make a deal. Yep, it was my third choice because of its poor condition. But I'm not really displeased at how things worked out in the end.

 

[sgwright67]

Thanks, Frank. I just heard back that it is gone. I will keep the cash on hand for the next boat, since obviously my word and a handshake means nothing these days. This is the now the third boat I have missed, except this one I thought I actually had an accepted offer on; the other two someone else got ahead of me.

In hindsight, I should have just bought the first E29 I looked at 6 months ago, which was not as nice looking, but had a better engine. It was also well priced at $10K.

 

[Loren Beach]

Breath in, breath out, move on...

Thanks Toddster, for the photo.

Sadly, I think the boat is gone. We got home from the boat show to an email from the owner saying that someone had arrived at the boat and given them a better offer. What's worse, she says she didn't think we'd agree on a price, despite me telling her over the phone that I would meet her counter offer, and then texting her to ask if they wanted cash, cheque or e-transfer. I grew up in the days when your word or a handshake meant something, so this really makes me sick to my stomach. I already have the cash in hand, prepared in case we decided just sail it away tomorrow.

It may be difficult not to spend the money on a trip somewhere and try to forget about the last 8 months of trying to find a boat. I have left a message saying I will beat the offer, and even forego the seatrail, but it's probably too late.

Thanks to all you good people here who have been so helpful, but I fear this is the end of this chapter.

Something else Will come along.
Even if you end up with a different boat, let us know how the searching goes.
Most of us have owned other boats before the present ones.

Also.... if someone was that unethical during the purchase process, I have to wonder how honest they were about the boat they were selling.

There are better boats -- and people -- out there.

Remember that good line from "Platoom" : "...Keep your powder dry, and the world WILL turn."
(It's actually a bit longer, but I shall preserve some forum decorum and post the short version.)

 

[sgwright67]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that.
Sadly, Craigslist (and similar) kind of goes by the law of the jungle. Whoever shows up with cash gets the deal first. I've been on both ends of that.
When I bought this boat, I had been looking seriously at three or four boats. They had all been listed for months and months. Then one day, something was in the air. I drove 200 miles to see one, but during the time I was driving, someone bought it. So I called up the owner of the beautifully restored Cal 28 that I had been leaning toward anyway and closed the deal. I just had to wait until the banks opened on Monday to draw out the cash. On Sunday, someone showed up with cash and sailed it away. So on Monday, I really lit a fire under the owners of the Ericson and got them to meet me at the boat and make a deal. Yep, it was my third choice because of its poor condition. But I'm not really displeased at how things worked out in the end.

Thanks, and I'm glad it's not just me that goes through this crap. I will keep the cash handy for the next one that comes along, and not waste any time on it. I delayed just one day going to see a Nicholson 31 at $8K a few months ago and lost on that one - they are rare over here, and in the UK go for 3-4x that price. Built like a tank and really nice woodwork inside. But the Ericsons have since grown on me, so I am going to see if I can find another one... there is another 29 in Port Townsend... it has an A4, but if they will drop the price a bit, I might go for it. Or I could fly to San Diego and get an E32 for under $10K, with an A4. Just getting really tired of this hunt, which I thought was finally over a few hours ago.

Thanks

 

[Afrakes]

A-4

Don't be scared off by the presence of a good running A-4. The "market" nay-say out there is mostly uninformed garbage. Yes, diesels are nice but there is nothing wrong with an A-4. It's not like your going to be motoring around the world.

 

[Christian Williams]

Also, it is true that to buy a boat is to marry the former owner.

And you were not all that in love with the owner in this case, and the endgame revealed what in country music is a cheatinʻ heart.

Inconvenience is tuition. Youʻll have a PhD in this stuff soon.

Cheers!

 

[sgwright67]

Also, it is true that to buy a boat is to marry the former owner.

And you were not all that in love with the owner in this case, and the endgame revealed what in country music is a cheatinʻ heart.

Inconvenience is tuition. Youʻll have a PhD in this stuff soon.

Cheers!

Thanks, Christian. I needed a laugh right now.

 

[sgwright67]

Don't be scared off by the presence of a good running A-4. The "market" nay-say out there is mostly uninformed garbage. Yes, diesels are nice but there is nothing wrong with an A-4. It's not like your going to be motoring around the world.

That may be true, but I've always hated gas engines, maybe because my first encounter with them was having to mow the lawn with old English Atco mowers as a kid. I learned to drive on a diesel, and with very few exceptions, have driven nothing else since. But I would consider a boat with an A4 if I could place its value at near zero, and replace it with a diesel when time permits. I have seen two universal diesel installs on 29s that almost fit under the stock engine cover, with only a 2" or so increase. There are two 29s with A4s in the area, but one is asking 2x what this one was ($14K). I've enquired on the other, even though it's in Port Townsend, to see if a low offer might fly. There are a few 30+, but they are all over $20K. I will go there if I have to, but haven't found a $20K boat that didn't need a bunch of money put into it.

 

[Loren Beach]

The one for sale in Port Hadlock sounds interesting, and looks clean.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/ericson-29-3483139/?refSource=standard listing

Some of the gear is rather dated, but that would be reflected in the final selling price.

 

[sgwright67]

The one for sale in Port Hadlock sounds interesting, and looks clean.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/ericson-29-3483139/?refSource=standard listing

Some of the gear is rather dated, but that would be reflected in the final selling price.

I've sent a message to the broker on this one to get a feel for what they would accept, based on the fact that two of them with diesels have sold up here for under $10K CAD ($7K US), so that boat with an A4 (albeit pretty decent otherwise), is worth even less. I'm also re-thinking whether the 29 is a long term boat for us. I really like many things about, and just wish we had a chance to sail it, which might help me decide. I really don't want to go through this whole headache again in 1-2 years, so if it's a 32 or 35 we really will be most comfortable with, then we might as well go there now. Besides, buying/selling boats here is a losing game, with a 12% sales tax incurred on every sale, on top of all the other costs.

 

[Frank Langer]

I have been inside an Ericson 29, 30+ (ours), 32, 34, 35, 36. I think there is a big difference between the layout of the 29 compared with the others. If you are now wondering if a larger 32 or even 35 might be a better choice for yourself, it might be time for a bit more homework on Yachtworld comparing interiors. Better yet, try to see actual boats in these sizes before you commit.
For us, the 29 would have been the wrong boat, and the 30+ has been absolutely the right boat for us for the past 13 years.
It is an important decision and it takes alot of time and research to get it right, in my opinion.
Frank