Ericson 32-3 steering cables keep jumping the quadrant

[bozturk]

I bought a 1985 Ericson 32-3 last year (my second Ericson 32) and my Edson steering system is giving me issues. The steering cables keep jumping the quadrant during a hard tack. I thought it was just loose steering cables, so I tightened them. Now it happened for the 3rd time and I am puzzled. I called Edison and they referred me to a yard, which i am made contact with.

It seems like the quadrant is not aligned with the idler sheaves, which seems to be recently installed/replaced, so the cables are rubbing against the groove edges of the quadrant. Idler sheaves are on the top most position so I can not raise them any higher to align the cables with the quadrant. Edson does not make any smaller sheaves for this set up.

Is it possible that somehow the whole quadrant/rudder post moved up?!? ? Maybe my rudder post packing gland is not screwed all the way? See attached photos and video link please:

- Is it normal for the rudder post to have a little vertical play? why does it drop only on one side (starboard)? please see the video.
- Is it normal to have that little gap on the rudder post packing gland? If I tighten it all the way would I have more room on the rudder post between the bottom of the quadrant and the top of the gland or would the ruder post and quadrant move down?
- What holds the rudder/ rudder post in place when water pushes the rudder up? is there anything, like a spacer, inside the rudder post deck flange, on top of the rudder post, inside the that it sits on or pushes against? can i install a shim or spacer to push it down?
- Would it be a feasible solution to add or replace A- Antifriction bushing between the rudder and stuffing box gasket to push the rudder down ( i need less than 1/4" B- Insert a bussing or spacer on top of the rudder post inside the deck flange to push the rudder post down a little?

Anybody experienced something similar?

Thank you.

Baris

 

[peaman]

My 1987 32-3 has Yacht Specialties steering gear. My quadrant looks like yours, but the idler sheaves are different. I wonder if the quadrant can be inverted on the rudder post to permit alignment of the quadrant groove with the sheaves? It may not be possible, but something to consider.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Baris,

Do you have room for to drill a hole higher on the idler without the sheave hitting the top?

 

[goldenstate]

Hi @bozturk

To me it looks like your replacement sheaves were installed 1/2” too low. The cable should come off the sheaves level with the center of the radial groove.

I would try to determine how the sheave idler is attached and adjust the height.

I don’t think you want to try to adjust the height of the radial quadrant as that would mean drilling a hole for the king pin in a new location and throw off your rudder height.

Post some pictures if you disassemble the top side. You can do it!

 

[Loren Beach]

The carrier piece for the 90 degree sheaves is way different than the stock piece on my 1988 Yacht Specialties steering assembly. I wonder if someone replaced that whole assembly with a different part that, as others noted, places the sheave axels way too low. I would bet money that this cable was aligned square when EY built it; they built a lot of sister ships.
There are a couple of photos of ours in two replies in this prior thread. Note how close under the pedestal the OEM sheaves are mounted.

Quadrant stop on Yacht specialties pedestal

Hi All, I have an E35/3 with Merriman Yacht specialties pedestal. The quadrant stop is a stainless tube about 1" in diameter which is inserted into a hole in the casting under the pedestal. The stop is very loose in the hole. I can take the tube in my fingers and rattle it back & forth -...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[bozturk]

My 1987 32-3 has Yacht Specialties steering gear. My quadrant looks like yours, but the idler sheaves are different. I wonder if the quadrant can be inverted on the rudder post to permit alignment of the quadrant groove with the sheaves? It may not be possible, but something to consider.

I thought about it, there is a through-bolt that goes through the quadrant and the rudderpost, which would prevent what you propose, unless i drill a new home for the bolt.

 

[goldenstate]

I think some racing boats now use dyneema instead of cable for steering controls. You might be able to have a smaller diameter sheave (if you can’t move the sheave axles up at all) with dyneema instead of cable.

 

[bozturk]

I think some racing boats now use dyneema instead of cable for steering controls. You might be able to have a smaller diameter sheave (if you can’t move the sheave axles up at all) with dyneema instead of cable.

Smaller sheave would allign with the quadrant but would not align with the hole cables come through from the pedestal and rub against the bushing i think...

 

[Alan Gomes]

If Loren's guess is correct, and the sheaves were replaced with the wrong part, then the only proper fix is to deep-six these and get the correct OEM part. Fix it once, fix it right, and be done with it. The steering is too important for workarounds.

(And, from the sound of it, I'll bet Loren is right. But then, he usually is. )

 

[bozturk]

The carrier piece for the 90 degree sheaves is way different than the stock piece on my 1988 Yacht Specialties steering assembly. I wonder if someone replaced that whole assembly with a different part that, as others noted, places the sheave axels way too low. I would bet money that this cable was aligned square when EY built it; they built a lot of sister ships.
There are a couple of photos of ours in two replies in this prior thread. Note how close under the pedestal the OEM sheaves are mounted.

Quadrant stop on Yacht specialties pedestal

Hi All, I have an E35/3 with Merriman Yacht specialties pedestal. The quadrant stop is a stainless tube about 1" in diameter which is inserted into a hole in the casting under the pedestal. The stop is very loose in the hole. I can take the tube in my fingers and rattle it back & forth -...

ericsonyachts.org

I hear you. I went through old invoices previous owner provided and it looks like the pedestal was replaced in 2012. So if wrong parts were used, which is possible, why this started happening now? Maybe because my rudder started having a little vertical play, just enough to cause misalignment.

The OEM sheaves you are referring to are Yacht Specialties brand. My pedestal and steering components are all Edson, bt i am not sure if they were YS brand before the previous owner replaced the pedestal. Edson idling sheaves come in 2 sizes only, 4" and 6" and mine are 4" so they don't come any smaller.

Before I start working on the quadrant alignment, I need to figure out what is causing the rudder to have vertical play.

 

[Jerry VB]

It would be a kludge, but you could possibly add a sheave between the existing sheave and the quadrant (pulling the cable up or pushing it down, depending on which side of the cable it is easier to mount the extra sheaves) so the cable wraps a little further around the existing sheave and aligns properly with the quadrant.

Comments on your video:

• The cable looks loose to my untutored eye.
• The vertical motion as the rudder turns does not seem right. I would try to figure out why. Is the rudder bumping into the hull or is there growth on the top edge of the rudder that is causing this?

 

[bozturk]

What holds the rudder in place? Is it just the quadrant or is there something else (does it mean that the rudder might just drop if i remove the quadrant)?

 

[Alan Gomes]

What holds the rudder in place? Is it just the quadrant or is there something else (does it mean that the rudder might just drop if i remove the quadrant)?

The quadrant holds the rudder in place--as well as the rudder being positively buoyant (assuming it's not waterlogged).

 

[bozturk]

The quadrant holds the rudder in place--as well as the rudder being positively buoyant (assuming it's not waterlogged).

What keeps it from moving up than? the bushing on top of the rudder? So if i flip the quadrant, the rudder would drop until the quadrant hits the top of the rudder post tube unless i add a spacer or sleeve below the quadrant?

 

[Alan Gomes]

What keeps it from moving up than? the bushing on top of the rudder? So if i flip the quadrant, the rudder would drop until the quadrant hits the top of the rudder post tube unless i add a spacer or sleeve below the quadrant?

Nothing prevents the rudder from moving vertically. On some rudders (don't know about the 32-3 specifically) there is a washer, such as this, which simply sits on the rudder shaft in between the top of the rudder and the hull. But that's it.

 

[Loren Beach]

I have seen a lot of different sailboat with a "rudder washer" like the one for sale @ Catalina Direct.

 

[Pete the Cat]

The cable looks loose to me.

 

[Parrothead]

The guys are all over it. The cable is too loose and the sheaves are misaligned. Not shown in the video or any of the pictures is the mounting of the sheave plate under the deck. Does the sheave plate mount tight to the deck or are there 1/2" hex nuts between the deck and sheave plate? If the latter I'd replace the hex nuts with jam nuts (jam nuts are half the thickness of standard hex nuts) to gain the added sheave height you need.

As already mentioned, I'd get some plastic bearing type washers on top of the radial drive to check the upward motion.

 

[bozturk]

I am trying to figure out how to put the washers on top of the radial drive. The length of exposed rudder post above the drive is about 6-8 inches.

 

[Parrothead]

A stop collar perhaps?