Ericson/Olson 34 seeking new rudder

[CTOlsen]

I'm considering haveing a new rudder made for Loki. Current rudder works fine, until, heeling with the chute up. Round-ups are difficult to anticipate, and correct, leaving me to think my rudder is not deep enough.
I've heard of many California boats having their rudders updated to a more contemporary, and deeper design. Many of them designed by Carl Schumacher.



This is the Foss Foam replacement for the Olson 34 (misspelled Olsen, not my doing) rudder, designed by Carl Schumacher. Are there any Ericson owners with experience using a Schumacher replacement rudder?
Thanks
CTO

 

[Loren Beach]

Only O-34 rudder trivia that I know is from Carl himself. Ericson (and Pacific Boats for building hull #1) used his O-911S rudder design.
Right after we bought ours in '94 I emailed Carl and asked some general questions about the design and construction of our model. His reply was rather short -- and said that he did not design the O-34, but that the rudder was used with his permission....
Knowing how much our boat resembles the smaller and earlier O-911s, I realized that he was probably not too pleased with Pacific Boats.

One owner in the Bay area sez he likes his custom larger-area rudder, but I do not know of any others that have changed. The boat in Hong Kong had to have a better rudder fabbed up because (IIRC) a prior owner changed the original one to a very different and rather poor design. There is quite a thread on this site about that rudder.

One thing I notice about your Foss rudder drawing is that it appears to move the CE further aft of the shaft centerline. Given that we already develop some weather helm if we fail to exactly trim our main, that seems like a bad idea to me. Or perhaps I am misreading the drawing?
(Oh well.... I never did claim to be the highest-power-ratio winch on the combing.)

Loren

ps: earlier thread:

Lee Helm on my Olson 34

I was wondering if anyone might be able to advise a possible reason / solution to my pretty bad lee helm I've had since owning my Olson 34 even with a full main and 110 jib. One experienced friend has advised that I could alter the rudder - either reduce the size of the leading edge or...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Slick470]

The owner of hull #1 O34 recently upgraded his rudder to a custom Jim Antrim designed rudder see here http://neversealand.downtothesea.org/2009/12/24/temeritys-new-rudder-takes-shape/

Also, I found this somewhere along the way, View attachment rudder_details.pdf If I remember correctly, the PDF rudder designed by Carl Schumacher is based off of a redesign of the Express 37 rudder.

It's really interesting to me that a 30' and a 34' boat would have the same rudder. If it's undersized for the O911, I would imagine it's a bit small for the O34.

 

[Chris Cyrul]

I've seen pictures of Loki on google images. What was the source of the new rudder that you chose? What was the cost? What handling characteristics did you feel changed with the upgrade? I have the Olson 34 "American Flyer" that was in MD that got bashed by a prospective buyer. I love the boat. The stains on the wood interior are still there. A small keel smile still exists. Some cosmetic blemishes are there also. Sailed the last two years, as is, on Lake Erie without issue. The set screw on the capstan is stripped and the rudder bearings seem to have some play, therefore, I plan to drop the rudder and at minimum fix the capstan and bearings. Would like to line up a potential rudder fabrication if needed.

 

[CTOlsen]

I've seen pictures of Loki on google images. What was the source of the new rudder that you chose? What was the cost? What handling characteristics did you feel changed with the upgrade? I have the Olson 34 "American Flyer" that was in MD that got bashed by a prospective buyer. I love the boat. The stains on the wood interior are still there. A small keel smile still exists. Some cosmetic blemishes are there also. Sailed the last two years, as is, on Lake Erie without issue. The set screw on the capstan is stripped and the rudder bearings seem to have some play, therefore, I plan to drop the rudder and at minimum fix the capstan and bearings. Would like to line up a potential rudder fabrication if needed.

The rudder was built by the OEM, Foss Foam out of Newport Beach, CA. You can send them your rudder and reuse the post - they'll put the foil on your post which can cut costs. My cost for the entire unit was $2K. The folks at Foss will work with you- they will modify the foil to meet your desires and it will be a good product. The higher aspect rudder gives far better handling when the boat heels, such as while flying a chute strapped tight.

When I bought Loki, she also had a keel smile. On my first haul out, I had the yard retorque and rebed the keel nuts in the bilge, and glass the joint on the outside. They did great work- it was faired nicely, has not taken on water in the bilge, and has not smiled in the last 6 years.

We also love our O-34. Sailed her in the Chesapeake Bay for 6 years, now in our 2nd season in New England. We continue to upgrade and replace things as they show their age. This winter will show new cushions throughout.
CTO

 

[missalot]

I built a new rudder based on a picture from Foss Foam like you have shown for my 1970 E29 tall rig. SO MUCH better handling when the wind pipes up with the chute. Also, it is more balanced feeling on all points of sail. It did cost 3 seconds on my PHRF rating - but worth every bit of it.

 

[Grizz]

A Lake Michigan Response

Just completing the 2nd summer with the new Foss Foam (California) rudder hung beneath Shoe String, a 1989 Olson 34. Several points & observations to add to the thread:

* existing in freshwater DID allow reuse of the OEM tube and frame, a cost savings

* The new rudder was designed for a Cal 40, narrower and @ 9" deeper than the OEM 'barn door' rudder (please excuse the editorial comment)

* $1,500 for the new rudder, plus shipping, which was less than $250 from Chicago to LA...and back.

* ORR received all the new dimensions before the rudder was hung and there was no rating penalty imparted after ORR had shaken their Magic 8-Ball. Apparently the square inches of the OEM and new Cal 40 dimensions offset. So there was 'no blood'. ORR controls Rating Certificates for the Chicago to Mac Race.

* As Craig stated, the deeper bite helps the helm track, especially when the A-sail is trimmed hard. Definitely NOT squirrely.

* similar response upwind, as the deeper bite helps when heeled

* the additional length DID require adding another block beneath the cradle, which were added in the fall at haul-out, "betting on the come". 3" of clearance with the top of the tube inserted during the reinstallation procedure elicited a sigh of relief.

* definite improvement, well worth the $ and time it consumed, all spent in the off-season with the 'String housed inside in an unheated space.

 

[Fathomoslack]

That's pretty similar to what I'll be doing to my E34r rudder. It's not really that complicated of engineering if one knows some basic trig and can calculate the loads. In the case of my 34r, the shaft is 2.75 inches which is meaty for sure and loads aren't much of an issue. I find most rudders on most boats are really too small. I'd say the same about the one I've got.

 

[Fathomoslack]

That's pretty similar to what I'll be doing to my E34r rudder. It's not really that complicated of engineering if one knows some basic trig and and calculate the loads. In the case of my 34r, the shaft is 2.75 inches which is meaty for sure and loads aren't much of an issue. I find most rudders on most boats are really too small. I'd say the same about the one I've got. In my experience I'd say most boat have rudders that are too small and are poorly balanced, but it's hard to figure their defects without doing some sailing first.